Hillary says she has never been in favor of socialized medicine

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Anyway you slice it, you're benefiting from something you like to argue against.

pardon me for having foresight when i was young and earning such and any way you slice it, you too can benefit as you are young enough to join if you want it so bad, why are you not in the military already?

Chuck. I have coverage. It's my neighbors I am concerned about. All 45 million of them.

Besides, I hate wasteful red tape. And the market has created red tape that is second to none in the health care field. There's just nothing right about it. It doesn't serve the American people well while costing them a pretty penny. We ought to be allowed to throw this inefficient piece of garbage system out the window and come up with more efficient and less costly alternatives such as the one you enjoy.

you got an awfully big neighborhood

while the thought of a health care system sounds great, i've seen firsthand what happens when the government (aka the military) administers a health care system. it's quite painful at times. surely you've been following the fiasco at walter reed?

How many of those things along the Walter Reed lines do you reckon we have going in in the private care and nursing industry?

Look, socialized health care would have it's flaws as well. Wouldn't be a perfect world by any means. But it would beat the ####### system we currently have both on the care and on the cost side. We'd all be better off - with the exception of the profiteers of the current mess, of course. But those monies could be spend productively rather than wastefully on useless red tape. The economy overall would be thankful.

i think that's a pipe dream. the government can't even manage military health care nor medicare worth a hoot, i'd shudder to think how they could muck up a nationwide plan as you propose.

eta - in regard to your question about walter reed - probably more incidents of such than people would be pleased about.

Again, the government may not do as good a job as we'd like but don't think for a minute that the profit oriented private sector does any better in the field of heath care. It doesn't. Plain and simple. The numbers are there: We spend the most and accomplish the least compared to any of the national health systems in the industrialized world. Any government out there is doing better than the private industry here. I'd understand the opposition if there was any indication at all that the market takes care of this better. That indication just isn't there. The market has created a wasteful apparatus, red tape of the kind and size that no government has yet been able to duplicate. The market has failed on this.

[Boiler 45,541]

If Gary comes down with a serious illness, serious enough so he can not continue working, blows through his COBRA and/or can not afford the premiums, I think Gary's tune will well change.

But what he still does not seem to get is that the US is more Socialised sic than say the UK, US Gov spends MORE than the UK Gov does. Per person. And cost of livng in the UK is a lot more than the US.

[GaryC 7]

If Gary comes down with a serious illness, serious enough so he can not continue working, blows through his COBRA and/or can not afford the premiums, I think Gary's tune will well change.

But what he still does not seem to get is that the US is more Socialised sic than say the UK, US Gov spends MORE than the UK Gov does. Per person. And cost of livng in the UK is a lot more than the US.

No I won't. I have long term disability with paid health care at work. Socialized medicine will be worse than what we have now. The government can't manage Medicare or social security right. What makes you think they can manage everyones health care. They can't.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

If Gary comes down with a serious illness, serious enough so he can not continue working, blows through his COBRA and/or can not afford the premiums, I think Gary's tune will well change.

But what he still does not seem to get is that the US is more Socialised sic than say the UK, US Gov spends MORE than the UK Gov does. Per person. And cost of livng in the UK is a lot more than the US.

No I won't. I have long term disability with paid health care at work.

That's assuming your job will be around forever and provide this benefit for as long as you need it. This ain't the 60's, Gary.

Edited August 12, 2007 by Mr. Big Dog

[GaryC 7]

If Gary comes down with a serious illness, serious enough so he can not continue working, blows through his COBRA and/or can not afford the premiums, I think Gary's tune will well change.

But what he still does not seem to get is that the US is more Socialised sic than say the UK, US Gov spends MORE than the UK Gov does. Per person. And cost of livng in the UK is a lot more than the US.

No I won't. I have long term disability with paid health care at work.

That's assuming your job will be around forever...

Hehe, speaking for myself only, at my last evaluation I was told that job security was a zero problem. I work for a contract maintenance company. I have a job that takes months to fill. If we loose our contract with the company I am working at now there are at this moment 15 other places (with my company) that are looking for my job description.

I planned ahead. I always considered health care as or more important as wages or retirement. I ask about that before anything like vacations or retirement when I interviewed for a job. If others put the same value on their criteria when interviewing there would be a lot less people crying about government paid health care. If you put your priorities in the wrong place you get what you deserve.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

If Gary comes down with a serious illness, serious enough so he can not continue working, blows through his COBRA and/or can not afford the premiums, I think Gary's tune will well change.

But what he still does not seem to get is that the US is more Socialised sic than say the UK, US Gov spends MORE than the UK Gov does. Per person. And cost of livng in the UK is a lot more than the US.

No I won't. I have long term disability with paid health care at work.

That's assuming your job will be around forever...

Hehe, speaking for myself only, at my last evaluation I was told that job security was a zero problem.

Yeah, I've been in that position a few years ago. My job was as safe as they come. However, companies are bought and sold each and every day. The company I worked for put the business I worked in on the selling block. All of a sudden, I worked for a different employer with a different benefit structure. And a different long term strategy for the particular office I worked at: they had no use for it. Office closed and 1,200 people were out there looking for jobs. Think it can't happen to you? Think again.

[GaryC 7]

If Gary comes down with a serious illness, serious enough so he can not continue working, blows through his COBRA and/or can not afford the premiums, I think Gary's tune will well change.

But what he still does not seem to get is that the US is more Socialised sic than say the UK, US Gov spends MORE than the UK Gov does. Per person. And cost of livng in the UK is a lot more than the US.

No I won't. I have long term disability with paid health care at work.

That's assuming your job will be around forever...

Hehe, speaking for myself only, at my last evaluation I was told that job security was a zero problem.

Yeah, I've been in that position a few years ago. My job was as safe as they come. However, companies are bought and sold each and every day. The company I worked for put the business I worked in on the selling block. All of a sudden, I worked for a different employer with a different benefit structure. And a different long term strategy for the particular office I worked at: they had no use for it. Office closed and 1,200 people were out there looking for jobs. Think it can't happen to you? Think again.

Well, I am not a fortune teller so I can't speak in absolutes. Lets just say that with the contracts we have I am willing to bet my life (health care wise) on the stability of my company. I also have carefully managed my job skills to the point where I get an average of 2 unsolicited job offers a month. When I decided to leave my previous employer (because of pay and health care concerns) I had this firm offer within a week. Best move I ever made. I have about 15 years before I retire and I am very sure I will still be working for my current company on my retirement day. It's called taking responsibility for your own future. If more people did that we wouldn't even be talking about this right now.

[Dan J 277]

The pensions that many people used to get with the place they worked at, are long gone. Those that still exist in a few places, are difficult to keep funded.

Things can easily change in your working environment. If we go into a recession, which we might due to the credit crunch (not really clear yet) You might loose your job, or you might loose of your benefits.

But you missed it, business used to pay all health care for their employees. But it has gotten too expensive. A business also has to pay more per person for a group plan, than it would cost for you to buy your own plan.

The point is, with the cost savings of socialized health care, we would pay less to the point that your employer may be able to completely cover the premium. We would easily be able to cover everyone, rather than force people to choose if they are going to make the monthly mortgage payment or have health insurance. Decisions are based on care, rather than how can we maximize our profit.

[GaryC 7]

The pensions that many people used to get with the place they worked at, are long gone. Those that still exist in a few places, are difficult to keep funded.

Things can easily change in your working environment. If we go into a recession, which we might due to the credit crunch (not really clear yet) You might loose your job, or you might loose of your benefits.

But you missed it, business used to pay all health care for their employees. But it has gotten too expensive. A business also has to pay more per person for a group plan, than it would cost for you to buy your own plan.

The point is, with the cost savings of socialized health care, we would pay less to the point that your employer may be able to completely cover the premium. We would easily be able to cover everyone, rather than force people to choose if they are going to make the monthly mortgage payment or have health insurance. Decisions are based on care, rather than how can we maximize our profit.

The sticking point with your argument that costs will go down is obvious. The US government has already shown that it cannot manage Medicare or Social Security. To give them control over the nations health care is insane. Sure, the way we do things now is not perfect but it is drastically preferred by me over the way the government would do it. I don't trust the government to control my health care.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I don't have a problem with increasing regulation of the health insurance industry. Of course that's a far cry from socialising healthcare. Is any US politician seriously considering scrapping the insurance system?

[Dan J 277]

The pensions that many people used to get with the place they worked at, are long gone. Those that still exist in a few places, are difficult to keep funded.

Things can easily change in your working environment. If we go into a recession, which we might due to the credit crunch (not really clear yet) You might loose your job, or you might loose of your benefits.

But you missed it, business used to pay all health care for their employees. But it has gotten too expensive. A business also has to pay more per person for a group plan, than it would cost for you to buy your own plan.

The point is, with the cost savings of socialized health care, we would pay less to the point that your employer may be able to completely cover the premium. We would easily be able to cover everyone, rather than force people to choose if they are going to make the monthly mortgage payment or have health insurance. Decisions are based on care, rather than how can we maximize our profit.

The sticking point with your argument that costs will go down is obvious. The US government has already shown that it cannot manage Medicare or Social Security. To give them control over the nations health care is insane. Sure, the way we do things now is not perfect but it is drastically preferred by me over the way the government would do it. I don't trust the government to control my health care.

While its true, that bureaucracy can create some waste. But in a health care system, profit, advertising, executive compensation is all waste, and that is much greater than what a bureaucracy would add. Private corporations are not really able to make the cost of care go down. Instead, they add their waste on top of it.

[Peikko 1,575]

What a consumer society relies on so often, the self satisfied 'I'm all right Jack' the 'me, I, if only they just did what I do they wouldn't need' blah blah blah.

If the world was that simple to run, everyone who is impoverished somehow deserving to be there because they have failed to impliment simple preventative measures, well, we wouldn't need any form of charity/health and social welfare at all. How anyone exists in a 'world' where things are so black and white and easy to categorise into the 'good' and 'bad' boxes is beyond me. Of course, the polar, dual political party system promotes these simplistic ideas while the media and other multinational corporations laugh all the way to the bank.

[mawilson 2,133]

mine runs about $35 a month, no thanks.......

Mine is 100% free. The employer is paying the full cost.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

If Gary comes down with a serious illness, serious enough so he can not continue working, blows through his COBRA and/or can not afford the premiums, I think Gary's tune will well change.

But what he still does not seem to get is that the US is more Socialised sic than say the UK, US Gov spends MORE than the UK Gov does. Per person. And cost of livng in the UK is a lot more than the US.

No I won't. I have long term disability with paid health care at work.

That's assuming your job will be around forever...

Hehe, speaking for myself only, at my last evaluation I was told that job security was a zero problem.

Yeah, I've been in that position a few years ago. My job was as safe as they come. However, companies are bought and sold each and every day. The company I worked for put the business I worked in on the selling block. All of a sudden, I worked for a different employer with a different benefit structure. And a different long term strategy for the particular office I worked at: they had no use for it. Office closed and 1,200 people were out there looking for jobs. Think it can't happen to you? Think again.

Well, I am not a fortune teller so I can't speak in absolutes. Lets just say that with the contracts we have I am willing to bet my life (health care wise) on the stability of my company. I also have carefully managed my job skills to the point where I get an average of 2 unsolicited job offers a month. When I decided to leave my previous employer (because of pay and health care concerns) I had this firm offer within a week. Best move I ever made. I have about 15 years before I retire and I am very sure I will still be working for my current company on my retirement day. It's called taking responsibility for your own future. If more people did that we wouldn't even be talking about this right now.

There's way to many jobs where the health care benefits either completely suck or are out of reach or both for rank and file staff. That's on top of those that just don't bother to offer any benefits at all. It just ain't as easy as you'd like to make it seem, Gary. It simply isn't.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

The sticking point with your argument that costs will go down is obvious. The US government has already shown that it cannot manage Medicare or Social Security. To give them control over the nations health care is insane. Sure, the way we do things now is not perfect but it is drastically preferred by me over the way the government would do it. I don't trust the government to control my health care.

But you trust some solely profit oriented insurance bureaucrat and a red tape apparatus built by the private health care industry that is more wasteful and inefficient than the government in any of the existing programs or any government that runs health care for it's people. The problem with your argument is that the supposition that the privately run health care delivers better results and/or lower cost is simply not in tune with reality.