Case denied yesterday [merged threads]

[wazzujoel 63]

Oh also... when I say "your appeal" I meant your USC husbands appeal. You cannot file an appeal, only the petitioner can. 

[Stormi10 4]

54 minutes ago, wazzujoel said:

 

I have a couple of comments, and please don't take this negatively because I am coming from a place of trying to help you. First, I am not a lawyer, I'm an engineer.  I have read a lot about immigration due to my own circumstances and have successfully filed many applications without ever seeing an RFE or denial... But I am far from an expert and I have never deeply looked into an immigration case such as yours. So please don't take my comments as fact, but more something to consider as you search for the legal facts that will help you win your case. The best advice would probably be to talk to a very good immigration lawyer that has experience with a USC that is locked up. If you consult with a lawyer or not, I believe your next step needs to be to file an appeal. But prior to filing an appeal I want to talk about the reasons for your denial.    

 

https://www.uscis.gov/forms/all-forms/questions-and-answers-appeals-and-motions

 

Remember that the person denying you is just a person like anyone here. They are looking at the evidence you provided and are making a decision based on what they think is correct in their head. Whenever I am dealing with USCIS, I like to make my evidence organized, concise, and telling a complete story. I don't want to leave anything for them to 'make up' because there were holes in the evidence. I also don't want them having to wade through mountains and mountains of the same bullshit evidence that doesn't really add to the story but overwhelms them which pretty much the same thing. I am not saying you did anything wrong here, I am only telling you my approach to dealing with USCIS because that might help you in your appeal. When an RFE or denial is given, I think it is important that the response be exactly in response to what they asked for. Your goal isn't to re-prove your entire case, but to prove the parts that are in question. Now lets get to your specifics. 

 

1. Did not establish he is a USC. Yet you stated you provided his Birth Certificate. Well that's strange isn't it? Either the agent didn't see the birth certificate, or you didn't provide a decent or official copy? In the US sometimes people will be given a certificate of birth at the hospital, and sometimes people think these are their BC's but they are not.... That's literally just garbage. Could you have submitted that instead of a official birth certificate? I think that one thing you should do in your appeal is get another copy of the BC from town government if it's not too much trouble. I can't think of anything else as to why they would list that as one of the reasons. The good news is if you really did submit the official BC then I personally believe your appeal is very valid. How can they say he's not a USC if he has a US BC? stupid. 

 

2. Did not establish a bona fide relationship. You don't need to convince me but I am not going to sugar coat this because I want you to understand what you are up against. You stated in this post that for the 12 years of your relationship and 8 years of your marriage, you have never cohabitated because I assume he was in prison. My instant reaction to that is, this is a sham of a marriage. How can someone be in a genuine relationship if they have never spent any real time together???.... sleeping in the same bed, working through relationship issues that come up because you see each other 24/7? If someone told me your situation in 2 sentences like I have read here, I would assume that this not a real marriage. What does normal i-130's provide to prove a bona fide relationship? Well supporting documents showing bona fide marriage usually include things like 

     a. Copy of Marriage Certificate

     b. Apartment lease agreement

     c. Health insurance under petitioner

     d. Joint Financials - bank accounts, 401k, Ira, Venmo transactions to each other

     e. Proof of Beneficiary as beneficiary on retirement accounts

     f. Three letters of support from friends with licenses

     g. Pictures of couple together with friends and family

 

All of those things seem like they might be pretty unlikely in your situation.... and that's what you are up against. Are you providing official prison visit logs? Is that even something you can get? I don't think it will be enough to say your visit "3 times a week for 3 hours every day, trust me". Are your correspondences dated? What evidence can you provide to show that this is a real relationship and not that you just found some guy who is locked up with nothing better to do that agreed to help bring you here? In my non-legal, non-expert opinion, you have a massively uphill battle here. What you need to do is find some people who have been in similar circumstances as you, and listen to their advice well... specifically on the evidence part. I've heard stories (this could be made up, never verified) of USCIS agents doubting a bona fide relationship when the couple has a child together and live together full time ("A child just proves you had sex once, not that you are together"). 

 

So my thoughts to you is that your appeal brief needs to specifically address the two reasons for denial. First the USC part which should be easily resolved with a new Official BC. Secondly think really hard about what you can say in response to the Bona Fide marriage. Was the marriage certificate you provided an official government marriage certificate? or an unofficial copy? What hard evidence can you provide that shows the amount of time you spend together and was what you submitted originally sufficient? These are all things you need to address and address it very concisely with clear evidence that backs it up. Don't get yourself stuck on "we were denied because he's incarcerated".... No It specifically stated it was because he didn't think it was a bona fide relationship. Possibly the agent was biased against those incarcerated, but that's not what you are fighting in your appeal... You are fighting that it was a "bona fide" relationship. 

 

Best wishes on your journey for a favorable ruling. 

 

@wazzujoel thank you for your reply and advise . Let me address the points so you can see why this is not nothing more than discrimination.

 

1. We filed i-130 online , I uploaded a copy of his birth certificate which came straight from the office of vital stastics as his original was burned in a fire years ago .

 2. I supplied proof from the prison which shows he is a US citizen too 

3. What is the definition of a marriage because "real marriages" where couple sleep in the same bed and all the things you mentioned still get divorced. We have been married for 8 years longer than most " normal marriages" last.

4. We supplied the following information. 

a. 8 years of in person and video visits . I visit him every week 

b.  12 years of phone call records supplied by the prison themselves.

c. 8 years of correspondence between myself and his attorneys.

d. 8 years of correspondence with various prison officials.

e. 8 years of putting money on his books and money he sends me to cover bills.

f. Arranged a call with prison officials that the USCIS officer could have called to speak directly to my husband. The officer didn't even look at the information regarding the phone call. He said he didn't think they would go interview him at the prison. 

g. The actual marriage certificate.

h. Names of three people who have been in the same situation as me and were granted a green card including the name of one of their attorneys. I personally tracked these people down.

5. I had 2 banker boxes of documents including letters , evidence we had continued to collect. Our marriage certificate, both birth certificates, updated sponsors tax returns. My tax returns he never asked for a thing despite me offering all the documents to view. His words were "it's not necessary "

 

They took almost 3 years to adjuticate my case , the interview was originally waived in September 2022. I don't think they even bothered to look at anything not even their own policy that states the interview of incarcerated individuals can be waived on a case by case basis. They did not take anything into account.

54 minutes ago, wazzujoel said:

 

I have a couple of comments, and please don't take this negatively because I am coming from a place of trying to help you. First, I am not a lawyer, I'm an engineer.  I have read a lot about immigration due to my own circumstances and have successfully filed many applications without ever seeing an RFE or denial... But I am far from an expert and I have never deeply looked into an immigration case such as yours. So please don't take my comments as fact, but more something to consider as you search for the legal facts that will help you win your case. The best advice would probably be to talk to a very good immigration lawyer that has experience with a USC that is locked up. If you consult with a lawyer or not, I believe your next step needs to be to file an appeal. But prior to filing an appeal I want to talk about the reasons for your denial.    

 

https://www.uscis.gov/forms/all-forms/questions-and-answers-appeals-and-motions

 

Remember that the person denying you is just a person like anyone here. They are looking at the evidence you provided and are making a decision based on what they think is correct in their head. Whenever I am dealing with USCIS, I like to make my evidence organized, concise, and telling a complete story. I don't want to leave anything for them to 'make up' because there were holes in the evidence. I also don't want them having to wade through mountains and mountains of the same bullshit evidence that doesn't really add to the story but overwhelms them which pretty much the same thing. I am not saying you did anything wrong here, I am only telling you my approach to dealing with USCIS because that might help you in your appeal. When an RFE or denial is given, I think it is important that the response be exactly in response to what they asked for. Your goal isn't to re-prove your entire case, but to prove the parts that are in question. Now lets get to your specifics. 

 

1. Did not establish he is a USC. Yet you stated you provided his Birth Certificate. Well that's strange isn't it? Either the agent didn't see the birth certificate, or you didn't provide a decent or official copy? In the US sometimes people will be given a certificate of birth at the hospital, and sometimes people think these are their BC's but they are not.... That's literally just garbage. Could you have submitted that instead of a official birth certificate? I think that one thing you should do in your appeal is get another copy of the BC from town government if it's not too much trouble. I can't think of anything else as to why they would list that as one of the reasons. The good news is if you really did submit the official BC then I personally believe your appeal is very valid. How can they say he's not a USC if he has a US BC? stupid. 

 

2. Did not establish a bona fide relationship. You don't need to convince me but I am not going to sugar coat this because I want you to understand what you are up against. You stated in this post that for the 12 years of your relationship and 8 years of your marriage, you have never cohabitated because I assume he was in prison. My instant reaction to that is, this is a sham of a marriage. How can someone be in a genuine relationship if they have never spent any real time together???.... sleeping in the same bed, working through relationship issues that come up because you see each other 24/7? If someone told me your situation in 2 sentences like I have read here, I would assume that this not a real marriage. What does normal i-130's provide to prove a bona fide relationship? Well supporting documents showing bona fide marriage usually include things like 

     a. Copy of Marriage Certificate

     b. Apartment lease agreement

     c. Health insurance under petitioner

     d. Joint Financials - bank accounts, 401k, Ira, Venmo transactions to each other

     e. Proof of Beneficiary as beneficiary on retirement accounts

     f. Three letters of support from friends with licenses

     g. Pictures of couple together with friends and family

 

All of those things seem like they might be pretty unlikely in your situation.... and that's what you are up against. Are you providing official prison visit logs? Is that even something you can get? I don't think it will be enough to say your visit "3 times a week for 3 hours every day, trust me". Are your correspondences dated? What evidence can you provide to show that this is a real relationship and not that you just found some guy who is locked up with nothing better to do that agreed to help bring you here? In my non-legal, non-expert opinion, you have a massively uphill battle here. What you need to do is find some people who have been in similar circumstances as you, and listen to their advice well... specifically on the evidence part. I've heard stories (this could be made up, never verified) of USCIS agents doubting a bona fide relationship when the couple has a child together and live together full time ("A child just proves you had sex once, not that you are together"). 

 

So my thoughts to you is that your appeal brief needs to specifically address the two reasons for denial. First the USC part which should be easily resolved with a new Official BC. Secondly think really hard about what you can say in response to the Bona Fide marriage. Was the marriage certificate you provided an official government marriage certificate? or an unofficial copy? What hard evidence can you provide that shows the amount of time you spend together and was what you submitted originally sufficient? These are all things you need to address and address it very concisely with clear evidence that backs it up. Don't get yourself stuck on "we were denied because he's incarcerated".... No It specifically stated it was because he didn't think it was a bona fide relationship. Possibly the agent was biased against those incarcerated, but that's not what you are fighting in your appeal... You are fighting that it was a "bona fide" relationship. 

 

Best wishes on your journey for a favorable ruling. 

 

@wazzujoel thank you for your reply and advise . Let me address the points so you can see why this is not nothing more than discrimination.

 

1. We filed i-130 online , I uploaded a copy of his birth certificate which came straight from the office of vital stastics as his original was burned in a fire years ago .

 2. I supplied proof from the prison which shows he is a US citizen too 

3. What is the definition of a marriage because "real marriages" where couple sleep in the same bed and all the things you mentioned still get divorced. We have been married for 8 years longer than most " normal marriages" last.

4. We supplied the following information. 

a. 8 years of in person and video visits . I visit him every week 

b.  12 years of phone call records supplied by the prison themselves.

c. 8 years of correspondence between myself and his attorneys.

d. 8 years of correspondence with various prison officials.

e. 8 years of putting money on his books and money he sends me to cover bills.

f. Arranged a call with prison officials that the USCIS officer could have called to speak directly to my husband. The officer didn't even look at the information regarding the phone call. He said he didn't think they would go interview him at the prison. 

g. The actual marriage certificate.

h. Names of three people who have been in the same situation as me and were granted a green card including the name of one of their attorneys. I personally tracked these people down.

5. I had 2 banker boxes of documents including letters , evidence we had continued to collect. Our marriage certificate, both birth certificates, updated sponsors tax returns. My tax returns he never asked for a thing despite me offering all the documents to view. His words were "it's not necessary "

 

They took almost 3 years to adjuticate my case , the interview was originally waived in September 2022. I don't think they even bothered to look at anything not even their own policy that states the interview of incarcerated individuals can be waived on a case by case basis. They did not take anything into account.

[appleblossom 2,242]

48 minutes ago, Stormi10 said:

8 years of in person and video visits . I visit him every week

 

Out of interest, what visa do you have that has allowed you to live in the US for the past 8 years? Just wondering if there might be another route to a green card for you that would be a heck of a lot easier?

[Stormi10 4]

Just now, appleblossom said:

 

Out of interest, what visa do you have that has allowed you to live in the US for the past 8 years? Just wondering if there might be another route to a green card for you that would be a heck of a lot easier?

I don't I came in on B2 and overstayed 

[appleblossom 2,242]

3 minutes ago, Stormi10 said:

I don't I came in on B2 and overstayed 

 

OK, so you're not working? 

[Stormi10 4]

5 minutes ago, appleblossom said:

 

OK, so you're not working? 

No I'm working, we filed 2021 I have received my work permit and it was just renewed last month.

Edited October 7 by Stormi10

[appleblossom 2,242]

Just now, Stormi10 said:

No I'm working, we filed 2022 I have received my work permit and it was just renewed last month.

 

OK. I wondered if an employment based green card was a better option, but then I don't think your overstay would be forgiven. 

 

 

[Stormi10 4]

1 minute ago, appleblossom said:

 

OK. I wondered if an employment based green card was a better option, but then I don't think your overstay would be forgiven. 

 

 

No it wouldn't be and as I mentioned there are 3 cases like mine where green cards were granted . I did the research and I tracked these people down. This nothing more than discrimination in my opinion.

[Lemonslice 4,768]

Are the prison visits contact, or no contact?  Are they exactly the same type as the people you know who were approved?

[Stormi10 4]

Just now, Lemonslice said:

Are the prison visits contact, or no contact?  Are they exactly the same type as the people you know who were approved?

They are both sometimes we are allowed contact and sometimes we are not allowed contact visits. And yes one was a life sentence and the 2 others were death row one has no contact visits at all.

[OldUser 6,367]

1 hour ago, Stormi10 said:

They are both sometimes we are allowed contact and sometimes we are not allowed contact visits. And yes one was a life sentence and the 2 others were death row one has no contact visits at all.

Essentially, USCIS does not believe this relationship. Sadly, coming to the US and marrying after overstaying is one red flag. Marrying somebody who is locked up, is another red flag. Never living with the person is yet another red flag. Is he ever going to be released? If not, that's also a major red flag.

There's definititely suspicion from USCIS about geniuity of this marriage.

Overcoming it may be very difficult...

Are you originally from South Africa? There's certainly bias that comes with being from African continent, be it Egypt, Nigeria or other country.

 

This is "death by thousand cuts" situation, unfortunately.

 

Do you have a lawyer (sorry if I missed?)

 

Good luck and keep us posted.

Edited October 8 by OldUser

[Stormi10 4]

15 minutes ago, OldUser said:

Essentially, USCIS does not believe this relationship. Sadly, coming to the US and marrying after overstaying is one red flag. Marrying somebody who is locked up, is another red flag. Never living with the person is yet another red flag. Is he ever going to be released? If not, that's also a major red flag.

There's definititely suspicion from USCIS about geniuity of this marriage.

Overcoming it may be very difficult...

Are you originally from South Africa? There's certainly bias that comes with being from African continent, be it Egypt, Nigeria or other country.

 

This is "death by thousand cuts" situation, unfortunately.

 

Do you have a lawyer (sorry if I missed?)

 

Good luck and keep us posted.

Thank you. I didn't marry after overstaying . I was still in status when we married , I overstayed after we had been married a couple of months. 

[OldUser 6,367]

5 minutes ago, Stormi10 said:

Thank you. I didn't marry after overstaying . I was still in status when we married , I overstayed after we had been married a couple of months. 

Thank you for clarifying.

[SalishSea 17,660]

On 10/4/2024 at 6:07 PM, Stormi10 said:

No we have not. But I would think 12 years of evidence which includes letters and phone records and in person visits would be enough. The officer was not terribly interested he wouldn't even look at the evidence we had collected following our filing in 2021. It took almost 3 years to get an interview. I believe the denial has less to do with "establish a bonefide" relationship and more to do with discrimination being he is incarcerated . We requested a waiver in 2021. I had arranged a phone call with the case worker at the prison so my husband could answer any questions. They didn't care to do that then still say incarceration is not a reason not to attend an interview 

It was probably not a great idea to adjust on a non-immigrant visa, honestly.   Why didn’t he just petition you properly for an IR-1, he literally had years to do it?

 

Also-  now you are out of status and no longer in a period of authorized stay, ie subject to removal.    Your EAD is also no longer valid.   
 

What does your lawyer recommend?

Edited October 9 by SalishSea

[Stormi10 4]

25 minutes ago, SalishSea said:

It was probably not a great idea to adjust on a non-immigrant visa, honestly.   Why didn’t he just petition you properly for an IR-1, he literally had years to do it?

 

Also-  now you are out of status and no longer in a period of authorized stay, ie subject to removal.    Your EAD is also no longer valid.   
 

What does your lawyer recommend?

Well it's what we did and it was best option for us at the time and frankly not your business why we went that route. Also- my attorney says was denied in error it's a due process issue since he thinks they couldn't have possibly looked at all the evidence submitted or bothered to take into consideration that there were otherwise of verify information like speaking directly to my husband. AND again our case in not unique.