Manila Embassy Really Can Do Whatever They Want (221g)

[Jason and May 79]

My wife had her interview today. Her Qatar PCC was applied for last June 2023. It was received in August 2023, and it was received expired. (They are good for 90 days from date of issue, evidently.) No worries, right? Because the immigration process is ridiculously long, they are by the Department of State's own rules valid indefinitely, e.g. "Police certificates expire after two years, unless the certificate was issued from your country of previous residence and you have not returned there since the police certificate was issued."

The consul who interviewed her today said it was expired. Gave her a 221g. She's smart, and she requested to speak to a supervisor. She was told there is nothing they can do and escorted out of the embassy. 

By the time she receives her next Qatar PCC, her medical will likely also be expired. They really make this as impossible as they can. Best of luck to everyone, and congratulations to those who manage to make it. 

Edited September 23 by Jason and May
Clarification

[DELTAFOXTROT 56]

Be aware starting the September 28th if she is in Manila that she may be required to send her updated information to the new Visa Application Center (Near Mall of Asia in Manila Area).  Did they give her instuctions on where to send her updated police clearance?         U.S. Embassy to Launch New Visa Application Center, Additional Consular Information Services - U.S. Embassy in the Philippines (usembassy.gov)

 

Hopefully she will get paperwork in time and not have to do medical again. I never dealt with police clearance thankfully.

[Jason and May 79]

Spoke with an attorney today. I was told that regardless of what DoS rules state for PCCs, the consular officer can do whatever he wants and, “You’re just going to have to do what he says.” 

 

Unsurprising, I suppose. My experience has taught me now that any advice offered should always be tempered, I think, with, “That’s what the statutes and field manuals say, but technically they can do whatever they want. Best of luck in whatever you decide.”  

[Bethie 103]

14 hours ago, Jason and May said:

My wife had her interview today. Her Qatar PCC was applied for last June 2023. It was received in August 2023, and it was received expired. (They are good for 90 days from date of issue, evidently.) No worries, right? Because the immigration process is ridiculously long, they are by the Department of State's own rules valid indefinitely, e.g. "Police certificates expire after two years, unless the certificate was issued from your country of previous residence and you have not returned there since the police certificate was issued."

The consul who interviewed her today said it was expired. Gave her a 221g. She's smart, and she requested to speak to a supervisor. She was told there is nothing they can do and escorted out of the embassy. 

By the time she receives her next Qatar PCC, her medical will likely also be expired. They really make this as impossible as they can. Best of luck to everyone, and congratulations to those who manage to make it. 

Really surprised, that embassy use to hand ourt Visa's as if it was a Candy Store.

 

[top_secret 2,425]

20 hours ago, Jason and May said:

By the time she receives her next Qatar PCC, her medical will likely also be expired.

 

That is discouraging. Maybe US Embassy Manila recruited a batch of ill-prepared trainees in a classic "government work" attempt to address their ridiculous backlog issue. My only (not really good) thought is that roundtrip airfare from the Philippines TO Qatar is probably about on par with the cost of a repeat medical at Saint Luke's these days. I 'think' that in-person they can get a police certificate in a few days.  As a general rule Filipinos can get to the Mideast for very cheap on Cebu Pacific to Dubai and can transit without visa from there to Doha etc. There's Qatar visas and other concern but going to Qatar in person is at least a thought.

 

Just to double check, how was the 221g worded?  Did she have actual proof with her that she had not returned to Qatar, like her old passports etc?

[Jason and May 79]

27 minutes ago, top_secret said:

 

That is discouraging. Maybe US Embassy Manila recruited a batch of ill-prepared trainees in a classic "government work" attempt to address their ridiculous backlog issue. My only (not really good) thought is that roundtrip airfare from the Philippines TO Qatar is probably about on par with the cost of a repeat medical at Saint Luke's these days. I 'think' that in-person they can get a police certificate in a few days.  As a general rule Filipinos can get to the Mideast for very cheap on Cebu Pacific to Dubai and can transit without visa from there to Doha etc. There's Qatar visas and other concern but going to Qatar in person is at least a thought.

 

Just to double check, how was the 221g worded?  Did she have actual proof with her that she had not returned to Qatar, like her old passports etc?

I was surprised--but yet not--when she texted me that she was not approved because her Qatar PCC is expired. Maybe they do have some staff who shouldn't be making these sorts of decisions, affecting people's lives. 

I don't know whether she had her old passport with her, but I know she has it, because she sent me pictures of her Qatar entry and exit stamps today. It would have made way more sense to me had they given her a 221g and requested evidence that she has not left the Philippines or returned to Qatar since issuance of the PCC. That's reasonable. But it's asinine to contradict what the State Department's civil documents section advises on PCCs and tell her it's expired because the physical document says so. 

They put a yellow sticky note on her PCC that says "expired" and drew an arrow to the wording on the PCC that says it expires after six months and the date of issuance. The 221g just has the box checked to upload and send originals and then the box that says "Other Country Police Clearance:" and then handwritten "Qatar." She says the consul told her that her document is expired and she must submit an unexpired original before her visa will be issued. When she receives the new PCC she is supposed to LBC it to them along with her passport. I am thinking I will have her hand deliver it. God forbid it gets lost in transit through LBC. At this point, we're looking at as little as 30 or maybe 31 months from the date of the petition to her being in the U.S. to possibly 36 months (that seems a little extreme, but at this point who knows), depending on how long Qatar takes to issue her PCC and how long the embassy takes to get around to issuing her visa. I'm no longer going with, "Generally, the embassy is pretty quick once...." Not one thing in this entire process has been "quick" for her. Everything has been exceedingly long, along with everyone else who was stuck in this rut for petitions made around the same time as ours. For whatever reason. 

[top_secret 2,425]

5 minutes ago, Jason and May said:

When she receives the new PCC she is supposed to LBC it to them along with her passport. I am thinking I will have her hand deliver it. God forbid it gets lost in transit through LBC.

 

On that part I think LBC is the only option.  AFIK the embassy doesn't allow hand delivery on 221g's. 

[Jason and May 79]

33 minutes ago, top_secret said:

 

On that part I think LBC is the only option.  AFIK the embassy doesn't allow hand delivery on 221g's. 

I think you're correct. 

I'm also 100% certain at this point that the PCC will end up misplaced, which is less problematic than her passport getting lost, simply due to the logistics of getting it from Qatar. Short of, as you suggested (which isn't a bad idea) of just having her fly over and get it.