Dutch people, help?

[Rachel n Tyler 38]

I'm putting all my ducks in a row for the move I'm about to make. My visa got approved so I'm now doing everything like cancelling insurances etc. The only thing I'm confused on is my retirement. I read that the belastingdienst(irs) would want to tax you for it, but I'm very confused on how it all works. Is there anyone who can give me some insight on how they did it?

[OldUser 6,635]

I'm not from Netherlands, but from a different European country. I don't have first hand experience with this.

 

However, here is the read:

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/the-taxation-of-foreign-pension-and-annuity-distributions

 

The interesting part is:

 

"If you are a U.S. citizen or resident, in addition to the requirements set forth in the relevant treaty article, you will also need to consider the so-called "saving clause" (typically found in Article 1). The saving clause preserves the right of the United States to tax its citizens and residents (subject to certain exceptions) on their worldwide income, as provided under U.S. law, as if there were no treaty. If there is no exception to the saving clause for the relevant Pension/Annuity article and paragraph, then as a U.S. citizen or resident your distribution would be taxable in the United States."

 

 

Essentially, once you move to the US as LPR, you will lose your tax residency in Netherlands. If you're not a resident of Netherlands, my understanding is, you won't get taxed on your retirement there.

 

However, US will treat it as income and you'll have to pay taxes on it.

 

Others can correct me.

 

[OldUser 6,635]

If you consult a tax expert, make sure they take a full picture into account. They have to understand taxation in Netherlands AND USA. This is a very specialized and complex area of knowledge, so make sure you get an opinion from a reputable tax specialist.

[SalishSea 17,819]

@Marieke H

Edited September 20 by SalishSea

[Marieke H 2,496]

I had several small retirement accounts when I moved to the US. I just contacted each of them to let them know that I had moved, and some offered to pay me a lump sum to pay off what was in the account (of course, after deducting tax). Some are just sitting there, and they will pay out after I reach the retirement age. Just make sure you have a European bank account at that time, like a Wise account. Just contact them and explain your situation.

[Nous Eb 126]

6 hours ago, Rachel n Tyler said:

I'm putting all my ducks in a row for the move I'm about to make. My visa got approved so I'm now doing everything like cancelling insurances etc. The only thing I'm confused on is my retirement. I read that the belastingdienst(irs) would want to tax you for it, but I'm very confused on how it all works. Is there anyone who can give me some insight on how they did it?

 

The Belastingdienst will send you a "conserverende aanslag" that you do not have to pay for the first 10 years as long as you abide by the Dutch tax rules. Here is some more information: 

https://www.belastingdienst.nl/wps/wcm/connect/bldcontentnl/belastingdienst/prive/internationaal/internationale-belastingregels/conserverende-aanslag-bij-emigratie/
https://www.jongbloed-fiscaaljuristen.nl/emigratie/actueel_emigratie/conserverende_aanslagen/
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conserverende_aanslag

https://www.belastingdienst.nl/bibliotheek/handboeken/html/boeken/FISIN2019/fiscale_informatie_2019-te_conserveren_inkomen.html

 

So I have not seen anything yet, but from what I gather you file your takes for 2024 (or 2025 maybe in your case, not sure when you leave?) as someone who moved abroad during the year and somewhere a few months or even years later you get the 'aanslag' that you do not have to pay as long as you abide by the rules. I guess I'll see, my pension is not very great since I cashed out a bunch a few years ago when that was still allowed. Maybe someone who moved a while ago can give more information on what they got, I'm following.

 

Your AOW will be lowered as well depending on your age and your work history. They look at the 50 years before your AOW age and you build up 2% a year, so in my case they started at 17 and so 3 months and I worked every year full time since then until my date of departure so I built up 25% AOW. 

 

Congrats on the VISA! Was not as scary as you thought, was it? Or was Frankfurt not as great as Amsterdam maybe? If you want to bring a lot of stuff with you (I highly recommend to bring as much as you can, it will make you feel at home!), then let me know. I shipped 3 pallets for under 1500 euros back in April.

 

 

 

 

[Nous Eb 126]

3 minutes ago, Marieke H said:

I had several small retirement accounts when I moved to the US. I just contacted each of them to let them know that I had moved, and some offered to pay me a lump sum to pay off what was in the account (of course, after deducting tax). Some are just sitting there, and they will pay out after I reach the retirement age. Just make sure you have a European bank account at that time, like a Wise account. Just contact them and explain your situation.

 

You never got the 'conserverende aanslag'?

 

When did you move? Cashing in retirements is not allowed anymore, or do they still do that when you move away?

[OldUser 6,635]

49 minutes ago, Marieke H said:

I had several small retirement accounts when I moved to the US. I just contacted each of them to let them know that I had moved, and some offered to pay me a lump sum to pay off what was in the account (of course, after deducting tax). Some are just sitting there, and they will pay out after I reach the retirement age. Just make sure you have a European bank account at that time, like a Wise account. Just contact them and explain your situation.

Did you do all of that before entering US as LPR? If so, did you file US taxes differently for that year?

 

If you did that after moving to the US, did you have to pay taxes to both Netherlands and the US?

[Marieke H 2,496]

1 hour ago, Nous Eb said:

 

You never got the 'conserverende aanslag'?

 

When did you move? Cashing in retirements is not allowed anymore, or do they still do that when you move away?

I moved in 2017. Getting my small retirement accounts paid out was still possible back then, but only for people who had emigrated.

[Nous Eb 126]

36 minutes ago, Marieke H said:

I moved in 2017. Getting my small retirement accounts paid out was still possible back then, but only for people who had emigrated.

 

I contacted the companies where I have some retirement to ask for options. Looks like it might still be possible. If I don't get in trouble with the 'conserverende aanslag' I will definitely have them cashed. Thanks!

[Lil bear 4,189]

11 minutes ago, Nous Eb said:

 

I contacted the companies where I have some retirement to ask for options. Looks like it might still be possible. If I don't get in trouble with the 'conserverende aanslag' I will definitely have them cashed. Thanks!

I don’t know about the Dutch end .. But the IRS taxes as income any distributors from an LPRs retirement account overseas. For this reason,  we got everything out of our Australian investment accounts and retirement   funds, and sold out house.. before we entered the US on our IR5 visas .. We moved everything into our aust bank account then moved it as cash to our US bank account using OFX once we were in the US.  We were fortunate that we had both reached retirement age and so there was no Aus tax payable on the cashing out process. But, oh, the complexities of the IRS are deeper and darker than the USCIS 

[Rachel n Tyler 38]

On 9/21/2024 at 1:05 AM, Nous Eb said:

 

The Belastingdienst will send you a "conserverende aanslag" that you do not have to pay for the first 10 years as long as you abide by the Dutch tax rules. Here is some more information: 

https://www.belastingdienst.nl/wps/wcm/connect/bldcontentnl/belastingdienst/prive/internationaal/internationale-belastingregels/conserverende-aanslag-bij-emigratie/
https://www.jongbloed-fiscaaljuristen.nl/emigratie/actueel_emigratie/conserverende_aanslagen/
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conserverende_aanslag

https://www.belastingdienst.nl/bibliotheek/handboeken/html/boeken/FISIN2019/fiscale_informatie_2019-te_conserveren_inkomen.html

 

So I have not seen anything yet, but from what I gather you file your takes for 2024 (or 2025 maybe in your case, not sure when you leave?) as someone who moved abroad during the year and somewhere a few months or even years later you get the 'aanslag' that you do not have to pay as long as you abide by the rules. I guess I'll see, my pension is not very great since I cashed out a bunch a few years ago when that was still allowed. Maybe someone who moved a while ago can give more information on what they got, I'm following.

 

Your AOW will be lowered as well depending on your age and your work history. They look at the 50 years before your AOW age and you build up 2% a year, so in my case they started at 17 and so 3 months and I worked every year full time since then until my date of departure so I built up 25% AOW. 

 

Congrats on the VISA! Was not as scary as you thought, was it? Or was Frankfurt not as great as Amsterdam maybe? If you want to bring a lot of stuff with you (I highly recommend to bring as much as you can, it will make you feel at home!), then let me know. I shipped 3 pallets for under 1500 euros back in April.

 

 

 

 

Thank you for all the links!  I only started building my retirement in 2020 so I doubt it'll be much, and I'll be leaving in November so it's the end of 2024.

Frankfurt was.. interesting. I haven't been to Amsterdam, so I can't compare, but they claimed to be understaffed and it took about 4h to get called up for my interview. Which ain't great when you left your house at 3am to drive hahaha. I'd love to hear about your shipping thing, I'm currently trying to stuff things into 2 suitcases but I'm sure you can imagine how well that's going hahaha.

 

 

On 9/21/2024 at 1:02 AM, Marieke H said:

I had several small retirement accounts when I moved to the US. I just contacted each of them to let them know that I had moved, and some offered to pay me a lump sum to pay off what was in the account (of course, after deducting tax). Some are just sitting there, and they will pay out after I reach the retirement age. Just make sure you have a European bank account at that time, like a Wise account. Just contact them and explain your situation.

Thankyou! I'll send them an email to see what it's like now and for my situation. I appreciate all the insights from everyone! This made me feel not as confused haha.

[Nous Eb 126]

I just got a reply from one of my mini pensions at Nationale Nederlanden, and since 2019 it is not possible to cash in your small pensions anymore. It will be once you turn 67 and 3 moths (or 83 and 200 months by the time we're there....) so all you can do is leave it and wait for the belastingdienst to annoy you. I didn't build much either, only 1700 bucks a year I believe because I cashed in the rest before 2019 so whatever 'aanslag' I am gonna get can't be that high. I did log in and made sure they had my new address and that my husband was added as my partner. It's not much and I doubt there will be any money left by the time I reach my Dutch retirement age, but I did pay for it and if something were to happen to me, at least my husband would get a percentage.

 

I will send you a message for the shipping!