I AM SO MAD!! This is total BS...

[elgringo 0]

Just found this. Apparently TN is the first state to have passed this stupid CFD law #######. And also I found where they introduced no less than 3 different laws to repeal the CFD law this legislative session, but all 3 failed.

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Thursday, July 29, 2004

Nation watches implications of Tennessee driver certificate

"'This is a disaster, potentially,' said Tyler Moran, an analyst with the National Immigration Law Center, which advocates for the rights of immigrants. 'I really think it's created a bit of a mess.'"

"For once, Moran is in agreement with state Rep. Donna Rowland, a conservative Republican from Rutherford County. Rowland said she would 'absolutely not' advise other states to follow Tennessee's lead."

"'I hope states learn from our mistakes,' she said. 'The certificate of driving will become exactly what the driver's license has become, which is a de facto national ID.'"

"Tennessee's experiment is being scrutinized by numerous states trying to balance road safety against federal immigration policy and homeland security."

[Dr_LHA 3]

I still don't get what the idea behind this law was. In all states people here on work visas, conditional green cards and EADs can get drivers licenses, these licenses usually run out when their status expires. This allows people to drive in the USA while they are legally here.

What exactly is wrong with giving legal aliens drivers licenses, and what problem does the CFD fix?

Its almost as if someone wrote a bill about not giving illegal immigrants drivers licenses (something that used to happen) and at the last minute the spell checker changed all the incidences of "illegal" to "legal".

Really, can anyone please explain the logic behind what Tennessee have done here?

Edited August 10, 2007 by Dr_LHA

[elgringo 0]

If you have a driver's license you could probably register to vote and whatever else you wanted. Here in the US it pretty much means you are a citizen. I can see the reasoning behind giving CFDs to some classes of immigrants, but NOT to LPRs. (Even conditional ones.)

[Dr_LHA 3]

If you have a driver's license you could probably register to vote and whatever else you wanted.

Doing so would be a felony however and grounds for deportation.

Here in the US it pretty much means you are a citizen.

In what way? You need a SS card to get a job in the USA, if an alien can get one it will have those nasty "Not authorized..." words on it. If the problem is employers taking just a DL as proof of being a US Citizen, then punish the employers, not the aliens. DL is just an ID. I don't buy this argument that giving someone an ID somehow gives them the keys to the country. Anyway - we're still talking about legal aliens, who are authorised to stay and work or study here.

I can see the reasoning behind giving CFDs to some classes of immigrants, but NOT to LPRs. (Even conditional ones.)

Some states issue non-resident aliens drivers licenses that say "non-resident alien" on them but give you every other rights as a driver. Surely that would have been a better idea than this CFD thing?

[MATTOB 0]

crazy

[elgringo 0]

I also found the phone numbers for some reporters for the Tennessean. I'm gonna be calling them tomorrow too. I want to get the word out about how discriminatory this is. I just cant get past the fact that they are discriminating against LEGAL RESIDENTS with LEGAL PERMANENT RESIDENT CARDS!!! It makes me mad just thinking about it. I'm gonna be freaking writing emails and making calls all day tomorrow about this. I've got the 1-800 number to the governor's office too. Something tells me that wont do much good though, because according to what I've read he's one of the ones thats been trying to get this piece of ####### repealed.

[SirLancelot 1]

Elgringo, while I empathize with what you've been saying--and I actually agree with your logic--but the below shows exactly what I was talking about. It's an extremely new law and your state has repeatedly (3 failed repeals) voted to keep it intact. If you're really against this law, you should be moving out of TN. Clearly the people of TN wants it this way. Despite what Doc says, I think many people in the US clearly lump legal and illegal immigration together. They want less immigration period, not just less illegal immigration.

I know this drives Doc crazy because anything he thinks is OK should be the law and anything he "thinks" is stupid should be repealed. Well that is his opinion. My opinion is that the requirement to carry a GC is clearly more stupid then this law and should be abolished.

While it may be annoying to carry both a CFD and a passport or GC, your wife has a valid permit to drive and she has legal proof of ID in the form of passport and GC, so once again I don't see the need for this big fuss. The practical goal is achieved--which is for her to drive.

Just found this. Apparently TN is the first state to have passed this stupid CFD law #######. And also I found where they introduced no less than 3 different laws to repeal the CFD law this legislative session, but all 3 failed.

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Thursday, July 29, 2004

Nation watches implications of Tennessee driver certificate

"'This is a disaster, potentially,' said Tyler Moran, an analyst with the National Immigration Law Center, which advocates for the rights of immigrants. 'I really think it's created a bit of a mess.'"

"For once, Moran is in agreement with state Rep. Donna Rowland, a conservative Republican from Rutherford County. Rowland said she would 'absolutely not' advise other states to follow Tennessee's lead."

"'I hope states learn from our mistakes,' she said. 'The certificate of driving will become exactly what the driver's license has become, which is a de facto national ID.'"

"Tennessee's experiment is being scrutinized by numerous states trying to balance road safety against federal immigration policy and homeland security."

If the CFD becomes a de facto national ID, isn't that what you want? I don't understand this quote. What exactly are they arguing for?

[rebeccajo 14]

Well, this is one of the dumber things I have ever heard of.

I can understand how a state can right driving laws to suit their own needs, regardless of how 'draconian' those needs might be.

What I can't understand is how they get away with 're-classifying' the legal status of an immigrant. I didn't think the states had the authority to do that.

[SirLancelot 1]

Some states issue non-resident aliens drivers licenses that say "non-resident alien" on them but give you every other rights as a driver. Surely that would have been a better idea than this CFD thing?

No, surely many in TN don't see it that way. Many in TN think the CFD is perfectly well suited to allow anyone legally in the country to drive. For the purpose of having an ID, the non citizens have passports and/or conditional GC cards. It's not necessary to issue a non-citizen a DL or State ID, in their minds. While some may disagree with that logic, the people of TN have that right to decide for themselves. That's why it's a democracy and a not dictatorship. You do not have to be correct all the time. Other people's ideas and opinions are valid too.

[rebeccajo 14]

I know this drives Doc crazy because anything he thinks is OK should be the law and anything he "thinks" is stupid should be repealed. Well that is his opinion. My opinion is that the requirement to carry a GC is clearly more stupid then this law and should be abolished.

Apples? Oranges?

Something must be driving you crazy for you to bring this up again, because they sure aren't even the same thing.

[elgringo 0]

While it may be annoying to carry both a CFD and a passport or GC, your wife has a valid permit to drive and she has legal proof of ID in the form of passport and GC, so once again I don't see the need for this big fuss. The practical goal is achieved--which is for her to drive.

Supposedly you cant get insurance with just a CFD...... I'd say thats enough reason for a big fuss....

[rebeccajo 14]

While it may be annoying to carry both a CFD and a passport or GC, your wife has a valid permit to drive and she has legal proof of ID in the form of passport and GC, so once again I don't see the need for this big fuss. The practical goal is achieved--which is for her to drive.

Supposedly you cant get insurance with just a CFD...... I'd say thats enough reason for a big fuss....

And if you have difficulty obtaining insurance, what if you have a job (that you are able to get because of your LEGAL immigrant status) that requires you to drive?

I agree. Seems like a problem to me also.

[SirLancelot 1]

While it may be annoying to carry both a CFD and a passport or GC, your wife has a valid permit to drive and she has legal proof of ID in the form of passport and GC, so once again I don't see the need for this big fuss. The practical goal is achieved--which is for her to drive.

Supposedly you cant get insurance with just a CFD...... I'd say thats enough reason for a big fuss....

elgringo, I don't think that's possible. Unless TN specifically allows people to drive in TN without auto insurance, then it can't be as you're suggesting. There must be a way for CFD drivers who live in TN to obtain auto insurance if TN requires all TN drivers to have insurance.

Do you have a "Department of Insurance" or an Insurance Commissioner in TN? You should contact that department to ask about this. I can't imagine TN's department of insurance not requiring all insurance companies who are allowed to offer insurance in TN to offer insurance to all, including those with only CFDs. That would absolutely be grounds for a lawsuit. You can't be legally required to purchase insurance, and yet at the same time be excluded from being able to purchase insurance. That's not possible.

[elgringo 0]

elgringo, I don't think that's possible. Unless TN specifically allows people to drive in TN without auto insurance, then it can't be as you're suggesting. There must be a way for CFD drivers who live in TN to obtain auto insurance if TN requires all TN drivers to have insurance.

Do you have a "Department of Insurance" or an Insurance Commissioner in TN? You should contact that department to ask about this. I can't imagine TN's department of insurance not requiring all insurance companies who are allowed to offer insurance in TN to offer insurance to all, including those with only CFDs. That would absolutely be grounds for a lawsuit. You can't be legally required to purchase insurance, and yet at the same time be excluded from being able to purchase insurance. That's not possible.

Check out this article that Dr_LHA posted earlier in this thread:

http://www.tennessean.com/local/archives/0...ent_ID=64110024

Notice this segment:

People seeking car insurance with their driving certificates also are having trouble, said David Lubell, state coordinator of the Tennessee Immigrant and Refugee Rights Coalition.

''There are a lot of insurance companies who will not accept a driving certificate, and others are charging extremely high rates,'' he said.

State Farm is among the companies that won't insure certificate holders.

''In order to obtain insurance through State Farm, you must have a valid U.S. driver's license (and) a Social Security number,'' State Farm spokesperson Louann Burkeen said.

Elivic Gomez, 19, a student at Volunteer State Community College in Gallatin, said the certificates are worthless if the driver can't buy legally required auto insurance.

[SirLancelot 1]

Check out this article that Dr_LHA posted earlier in this thread:

http://www.tennessean.com/local/archives/0...ent_ID=64110024

elgringo, that article was written in 01/14/05, I'm pretty sure policies have been revised and your wife will be able to obtain auto insurance.

Here is something I found from Middle TN State University (MTSU) with regards to instructions for their foreign students in obtaining a CFD and on page two, you'll note it specifically advises students to purchase auto insurance. Take a look:

http://www.mtsu.edu/~ipso/tenn_driving_cert.pdf

So I'm pretty sure your wife will be able to purchase auto insurance. But, it may cost more.

Otherwise your only real recourse is to move out of TN. You can try changing the law--good luck--but it's been tried several times and it doesn't seem to be changing. You can also wait to see if the lawsuits prevail but that could take a while.