Traveling USA - MEXICO - USA as a German 09/24 – 05/25

[Susi86 1]

Hello everyone, I really hope I can find an answer on here, as it's been a nightmare so far to find a solutuion. I already wrote the embassy in Berlin but they said, they can't give me any advice.

 

My situation:

I would like to join my American boyfriend this September. After a month in the States, we want to travel to Mexico in our American motorhome for a 6-month surf trip and then return to the States to visit his family for a month in the spring. We will then fly back to Germany together from Chicago.

 

On a similar trip this year, I was informed by the border officials that leaving the country for Mexico falls under the Contiguous Territory Rule. I was then kindly issued a new visa at the border, as the officials could see that we were acting in good conscience and I had already booked my return flight from the States.

Now I would like to have the correct papers with me for the next trip, but I can't find any information online on how this might be possible and only contradictory information:

a) Do I have to go to a US embassy in Mexico during my stay and apply for a new visa there?
b) Can I apply for a B2 visa to enter the States and then apply for an extension online in Mexico?

c) fly for example to Nicaragua for 2 weeks and get a reset by this on my I94?

 

Here are my exact travel dates:

September 15 - October 15 USA
October 15 - April 15 Mexico
April 15 - May 15 USA
From May 15 Germany

 

I would be very grateful for an answer about the correct/best procedure.

 

Thank you very much.

 

[Crazy Cat 41,814]

1 hour ago, JulaO said:

Here are my exact travel dates:

September 15 - October 15 USA
October 15 - April 15 Mexico
April 15 - May 15 USA
From May 15 Germany

I don't understand your issue.  I see 2 visits to the US for a total of about 3 months.  What am I missing?  I assume you are entering the US via the Visa Waiver Program, correct? 

I don't think, under these circumstances, that your time in Mexico will be seen as time in the US.  You're going to be outside the US for 6 months.

@Boiler has been around here a long time.  Maybe he is familiar with this situation.

Edited July 11 by Crazy Cat

[Susi86 1]

Thanks for your time and correct, I'm entering the US via the Visa Waiver Program.

I also first didn't think this could be a problem, but I did a similar trip this year: 3 months in the US, than 3 months Mexico. When driving back to the US the border patrol told me that me being in Mexico is not really considered as leaving the US (Contiguous Territory Rule). So technically I wasn't allowed in that moment to enter the states again because I wasn't out of the country for long enough and my visa status didn't reset... But they saw that I had good intentions and gave me a new Visa. They also told me though that this was an exception. 

 

34 minutes ago, Crazy Cat said:

I don't understand your issue.  I see 2 visits to the US for a total of about 3 months.  What am I missing?  I assume you are entering the US via the Visa Waiver Program, correct? 

I don't think, under these circumstances, that your time in Mexico will be seen as time in the US.  You're going to be outside the US for 6 months.

@Boiler has been around here a long time.  Maybe he is familiar with this situation.

 

 

Edited July 11 by JulaO

[jan22 3,049]

4 hours ago, Crazy Cat said:

I don't understand your issue.  I see 2 visits to the US for a total of about 3 months.  What am I missing?  I assume you are entering the US via the Visa Waiver Program, correct? 

I don't think, under these circumstances, that your time in Mexico will be seen as time in the US.  You're going to be outside the US for 6 months.

@Boiler has been around here a long time.  Maybe he is familiar with this situation.

This is one of the somewhat-unknown aspects of the Visa Waiver Program, designed to prevent someone using their full 90-day VWP entry, make a short trip to Mexico, Canada, or the Caribbean

 (i.e., contiguous territories), and then return to the US for a new 90 day VWP entry.  9 FAM 201.1-4(C)(e)(2)(b) summarizes it by saying that a side trip to to Mexico (or other contiguous territories of the US) does not “reset” the 90-day VWP clock.  The time in Mexico is added to the time in the US and, together, they cannot exceed 90 days.

https://fam.state.gov/fam/09FAM/09FAM020101.html#:~:text=After the initial admission into,and%2For adjacent islands does

There is a provision (section 3, immediately following (2)(b) cited above) for using the VWP to transit to another country.  If the re-entry to the US occurs after the initial 90-day VWP entry, you have to show that the intent in returning to the US was not to circumvent US immigration law.  Not sure, but I suspect that CBP would not accept that was the case, since OP was made aware of the issue of returning from a contiguous territory on what sounds like a fairly recent trip, and seemingly is planning another trip with exactly the same issue. (Sorry, OP — just trying to present a view from the CBP officer’s perspective).  Plus, it’s hard to describe a one-month initial entry into the US and a one- month return entry as “transiting” the US.

 

And, OP — just to clarify, on your last trip, they didn’t give you a new visa at the border — they granted you a new entry under the VWP.  It doesn’t sound like you’ve had an actual visa during your travels.

Ideally, to comply with US visa law, you would apply for a B2 visa, use it to enter the US for a month and then go to Mexico.  When your Mexico trip is finished, you would again seek entry under your visa and spend the final month in the US before going back to Germany. 

Barring that, flying to a country outside the contiguous territory and then joining your boyfriend in Mexico would officially reset your timeline.  But — there are some difficulties with this plan.  Sorry if this gets confusing…will try to be as clear as possible.  The side trip to another country would have to be at the beginning of the Mexico portion without a return to the US until the final month (e.g., US — Guatemala (or some place withe easy flights to Mexico) — Mexico —  US) or it could be determined that you overstayed your VWP entry by not leaving US and contiguous territories within 90 days (if, for example, you went  US— Mexico — other country — US).  Another possible problem with this plan is, if you put the other country first, follow it with the Mexico portion, and then try to enter the US by land from Mexico, you might run into the issue that you are not seeking entry into the US via a VWP participating carrier.

 

Best plan, IMO, is to apply for a B2 visa before beginnng your trip.  Applying in Mexico will not stop the VWP clock, but might get you admitted back into the US.  If you get the wrong CBP officer, though, you might be denied entry and possibly lose VWP.  More importantly, the visa interview appointment wait times in the Embassy/Consulates in Mexico range from 414 to 728 days — so, you most likely would not even get a visa interview in time — and might not be approved.  Appointment wait times in Germany range from 14 days (Munich) to 37 days (Berlin) to 48 days (Frankfurt). 

[Crazy Cat 41,814]

7 minutes ago, jan22 said:

The time in Mexico is added to the time in the US and, together, they cannot exceed 90 days.

Thanks for the clarification.  So, even though the time in Mexico is 6 months, it makes no difference.  

[jan22 3,049]

2 minutes ago, Crazy Cat said:

Thanks for the clarification.  So, even though the time in Mexico is 6 months, it makes no difference.  

Only if the VWP entry is deemed to be transiting the US or the person is actually a resident of Mexico.

[SalishSea 17,803]

11 hours ago, JulaO said:

Thanks for your time and correct, I'm entering the US via the Visa Waiver Program.

I also first didn't think this could be a problem, but I did a similar trip this year: 3 months in the US, than 3 months Mexico. When driving back to the US the border patrol told me that me being in Mexico is not really considered as leaving the US (Contiguous Territory Rule). So technically I wasn't allowed in that moment to enter the states again because I wasn't out of the country for long enough and my visa status didn't reset... But they saw that I had good intentions and gave me a new Visa. They also told me though that this was an exception. 

 

 

 

They will (rightly) wonder how you can afford such long vacations.   Hopefully you realize that you cannot work remotely while in the U.S.?

[Susi86 1]

13 hours ago, jan22 said:

This is one of the somewhat-unknown aspects of the Visa Waiver Program, designed to prevent someone using their full 90-day VWP entry, make a short trip to Mexico, Canada, or the Caribbean

 (i.e., contiguous territories), and then return to the US for a new 90 day VWP entry.  9 FAM 201.1-4(C)(e)(2)(b) summarizes it by saying that a side trip to to Mexico (or other contiguous territories of the US) does not “reset” the 90-day VWP clock.  The time in Mexico is added to the time in the US and, together, they cannot exceed 90 days.

https://fam.state.gov/fam/09FAM/09FAM020101.html#:~:text=After the initial admission into,and%2For adjacent islands does

There is a provision (section 3, immediately following (2)(b) cited above) for using the VWP to transit to another country.  If the re-entry to the US occurs after the initial 90-day VWP entry, you have to show that the intent in returning to the US was not to circumvent US immigration law.  Not sure, but I suspect that CBP would not accept that was the case, since OP was made aware of the issue of returning from a contiguous territory on what sounds like a fairly recent trip, and seemingly is planning another trip with exactly the same issue. (Sorry, OP — just trying to present a view from the CBP officer’s perspective).  Plus, it’s hard to describe a one-month initial entry into the US and a one- month return entry as “transiting” the US.

 

And, OP — just to clarify, on your last trip, they didn’t give you a new visa at the border — they granted you a new entry under the VWP.  It doesn’t sound like you’ve had an actual visa during your travels.

Ideally, to comply with US visa law, you would apply for a B2 visa, use it to enter the US for a month and then go to Mexico.  When your Mexico trip is finished, you would again seek entry under your visa and spend the final month in the US before going back to Germany. 

Barring that, flying to a country outside the contiguous territory and then joining your boyfriend in Mexico would officially reset your timeline.  But — there are some difficulties with this plan.  Sorry if this gets confusing…will try to be as clear as possible.  The side trip to another country would have to be at the beginning of the Mexico portion without a return to the US until the final month (e.g., US — Guatemala (or some place withe easy flights to Mexico) — Mexico —  US) or it could be determined that you overstayed your VWP entry by not leaving US and contiguous territories within 90 days (if, for example, you went  US— Mexico — other country — US).  Another possible problem with this plan is, if you put the other country first, follow it with the Mexico portion, and then try to enter the US by land from Mexico, you might run into the issue that you are not seeking entry into the US via a VWP participating carrier.

 

Best plan, IMO, is to apply for a B2 visa before beginnng your trip.  Applying in Mexico will not stop the VWP clock, but might get you admitted back into the US.  If you get the wrong CBP officer, though, you might be denied entry and possibly lose VWP.  More importantly, the visa interview appointment wait times in the Embassy/Consulates in Mexico range from 414 to 728 days — so, you most likely would not even get a visa interview in time — and might not be approved.  Appointment wait times in Germany range from 14 days (Munich) to 37 days (Berlin) to 48 days (Frankfurt). 

Hi Jan22, 

first of all: I'm so incredible thankful that you took the time and shared your knowledge with me! You have no idea what this means. 

And you are correct. I didn't travel under a Visa last time. I just got granted a new entry under the VWP because they saw that my flight was within the next 2 weeks and already booked a long time ago. This was in May of this year.

So I guess it's still all a bit tricky. I looked further into the B2 visa option and how to reapply in Mexico but reading the google reviews for the Embassy/Consulates in Baja California sound horrifying and like a big headache. 

My timeline is more of a rough outline though. I could also only take 2 weeks to travel back to Chicago in our Motorhome, like I did this last time, but I also really don't like the idea of being depending on a CPB officers mood or judgement.... especially since they made me aware of this issue. 

Another option (which might be the best way) from what I learned so far, is that I fly into Mexico and meet my boyfriend there. We spent 6 months in Mexico and then travel back into the US to spend time w his his family and fly back together to Germany? Do you think this could work?



 

[Susi86 1]

5 hours ago, SalishSea said:

They will (rightly) wonder how you can afford such long vacations.   Hopefully you realize that you cannot work remotely while in the U.S.?

 

Hi SalishSea, 

 

thank you for making me aware of this issue. I actually didn't know this!    My boyfriend and I have been in a long distance relationship for almost nine years now, so I came quite frequently to the US over the past years for up to 3 months periods. I always got asked at the boarder what kind of job I have which is graphic designer/illustrator w customers in Germany. Nobody ever said anything to me about not being able to work remotely. So I guess I'll say if they asked me, that I saved a long time for this trip. And maybe it's also time to get married, haha. 

[SalishSea 17,803]

15 hours ago, JulaO said:

 

Hi SalishSea, 

 

thank you for making me aware of this issue. I actually didn't know this!    My boyfriend and I have been in a long distance relationship for almost nine years now, so I came quite frequently to the US over the past years for up to 3 months periods. I always got asked at the boarder what kind of job I have which is graphic designer/illustrator w customers in Germany. Nobody ever said anything to me about not being able to work remotely. So I guess I'll say if they asked me, that I saved a long time for this trip. And maybe it's also time to get married, haha. 

Hopefully  have not been working remotely while here.

 

Getting married doesn’t solve the problem in and of itself - you’d still need a green card or work authorization to be able to legally work while present in the U.S.

[MaxP22 186]

19 hours ago, JulaO said:

 

Hi SalishSea, 

 

thank you for making me aware of this issue. I actually didn't know this!    My boyfriend and I have been in a long distance relationship for almost nine years now, so I came quite frequently to the US over the past years for up to 3 months periods. I always got asked at the boarder what kind of job I have which is graphic designer/illustrator w customers in Germany. Nobody ever said anything to me about not being able to work remotely. So I guess I'll say if they asked me, that I saved a long time for this trip. And maybe it's also time to get married, haha. 

So you admit to working in the USA whilst visiting on the VWP, which is not allowed, remote or not. Then you say you will directly lie to CBP when asked a question. Wow.

 

Add the fact you are abusing the VWP by using it to de facto live in the US without the appropriate visa (tourists don't have "motorhomes" in places they just visit), you are not a genuine tourist.

 

I would expect a swift entry denial and sent on the first plane back, and banned from using the VWP for life, if CBP do their job properly on your next attempted visit.

[Susi86 1]

10 hours ago, SalishSea said:

Hopefully  have not been working remotely while here.

 

Getting married doesn’t solve the problem in and of itself - you’d still need a green card or work authorization to be able to legally work while present in the U.S.

So true. The marrying part was more of a joke. But I looked more into it and read if you are working for a non US-company it is ok. The company I'm working for is German. 

[Susi86 1]

5 hours ago, MaxP22 said:

So you admit to working in the USA whilst visiting on the VWP, which is not allowed, remote or not. Then you say you will directly lie to CBP when asked a question. Wow.

 

Add the fact you are abusing the VWP by using it to de facto live in the US without the appropriate visa (tourists don't have "motorhomes" in places they just visit), you are not a genuine tourist.

 

I would expect a swift entry denial and sent on the first plane back, and banned from using the VWP for life, if CBP do their job properly on your next attempted visit.

🙄 

[Susi86 1]

1 hour ago, Susi86 said:

 

Nevermind. You are right. What I read was, when you have a green card. Well, I'm sure I can line it out, that I won't have to work while in the US and have a colleague cover my part. I actually also saved quite some money for this trip so that won't be an issue. 

I really appreciate you making me aware of this issue!

 

Edited July 13 by Susi86

[SalishSea 17,803]

18 hours ago, Susi86 said:

So true. The marrying part was more of a joke. But I looked more into it and read if you are working for a non US-company it is ok. The company I'm working for is German. 

Delete.

Edited July 14 by SalishSea