Help! Flummoxed by the sheer complexity

[top_secret 2,458]

Not so serious as you think.  The Utah marriage certificate is all you need to proceed.  Focus on getting the I-130 and I-130A submitted first and foremost to get the ball rolling.  The best way to get going is create a USCIS online account and start filling one online.  You can poke around all you want in the online I-130 and nothing is set until you hit submit so its the best way get a feel for what you are getting into.  All name issues, passport issues and new Philippine document issues can all be resolved while you are waiting for the I-130 to be approved.  You likely have over a year to deal with secondary issues.  Name is not overly relevant on the I-130 since it can be change later in the process but if she has a preferred name then use it to file the I-130.  To change her name in the Philippines based on a Utah marriage you must first file a report of marriage with the Philippine consulate in San Francisco.  That takes time and is not important to filing the I-130 so worry about names later.

 

I129F.  That is called K3 when submitted after an I-130.  It WILL be rejected.  They are ALWAYS rejected.  There is superstition that the rejection of the I129F speeds the approval of an I130.  Up to you if you file it or not.  It's not part of the normal process but it's a gimmicky trick that some people swear makes things faster.  Its free but don’t waste worry or time over it.

 

Philippine National ID.  The US could literally care less about that.  It's absolutely irrelevant to the visa process.

 

Joint banking.  Not important at all for an overseas beneficiary.  USCIS doesn't expect you to have comingled finances.  Add her as an authorized user on your US credit cards though.  It will bump start her credit file in the US and produce matching credit cards which are good evidence.  Proof of your communication and time together are far more important.

 

Wait on the CENOMAR/Advisory on Marriages.  You don’t need it until the interview.  It would be wrong now anyways and doesn’t matter at this point.

 

Report of Marriage is a strictly Philippines thing.  It is mainly only important on the name issue since the Philippines will require it to change the name on her passport.  It is NOT important to the US visa process so get the I-130 filed first.  For a Utah marriage it all goes through the Philippine Consulate in San Francisco by mail. On the notarization, recently we had a single report of them accepting one notarized only by the husband which is convenient if true.  But the report of marriage is not relevant to the I-130 so worry about it later.

 

As far as the timeframe? US Embassy Manila is having some kind of catastrophic meltdown at the moment.  It's so bad right now that it seems like it could only possibly get better. You could hope it would improve by a year from now but who knows.

 

So, in summery.  Get the I-130 (with I130A) filed immediately.  That is what is setting the pace right now. AFTER you have filed that and the clock is moving you have like a year to work out i129f, report of Marriage, names, passports and anything else.

 

Edited June 18 by top_secret

[widude 38]

 I realize you just got back, it’s a long haul, costs $$, & so forth. That said, with the ramifications of the whole process, flying over for a visit is one way to keep sanity. I’m looking at going over again the last week of July, don’t normally stay as long as you did.

[top_secret 2,458]

As far as name changes.  As mentioned above that can be settled later in the process so worry about getting the i-130 filed first.

 

The name on her visa, green card and social security card hinges on a single document.  The Philippine Passport she brings the day of her interview.  That's all there is to it for the US.  It is highly preferable if she gets that done BEFORE her interview.

 

Changing her name on her Philippine passport requires the Report of Marriage to be filed with the Philippine Consulate in San Francisco. Once she gets a PSA copy of that, she can easily change her passport.  You are correct they will try to move her current last name to her middle name.  If she wants to retain her mother maiden name as her middle name she would have to argue that with the passport office in the Philippines.  Technically she should be able to keep her middle name.  In reality Philippine offices touchy about that sometimes.  Were her parents married??  That is relevant to middle names.

But in any case the name change boils down to Report of marriage first.  Followed by changing her Philippine passport.  That is all there is to it.  It can all be done while waiting on approval of the I-130.

[Nathan Alden, Sr. 17]

Thank you so much @top_secret. To be clear, I did state in my post that I had begun the I-130 process already. In fact, it's nearly complete. There are a few items I'm waiting on but nothing major.

[Nathan Alden, Sr. 17]

56 minutes ago, top_secret said:

USCIS doesn't expect you to have comingled finances.

 

You say that but on the online I-130 website, under the Additional Proof of Marriage section, the website says this:

 

 

This text was specifically why I was focusing on comingling our finances in some provable way. I figured that comingled finances would be better evidence than just easily-forged WhatsApp messages and affidavits. Obviously, I'll be submitting all three types of evidence in the end.

Edited June 18 by Nathan Alden, Sr.

[Stevephoto 230]

15 minutes ago, Nathan Alden, Sr. said:

Thank you so much @top_secret. To be clear, I did state in my post that I had begun the I-130 process already. In fact, it's nearly complete. There are a few items I'm waiting on but nothing major.

Good luck to you. Sorry I went through the Fiance Visa process 13 years ago so anything I could say is way outdated. It will work out!

[Boiler 45,733]

Manila is an easy Consulate and you are not living together.

 

At least one Lawyer suggests leaving name change to Naturalisation.

[Nathan Alden, Sr. 17]

I answered my own question regarding an apostilled copy of the Utah County marriage license: it needs to be ordered separately. This can be done here after the marriage license is registered.

[spicynujac 27]

I'm just a few months ahead of you and can tell you that in all the pointless WAITING you have ahead of you, you will probably read enough here and eventually figure out most of your questions.  One big complaint I have with VJ is some of the guides are outdated and there are far too few stickies (the Philippines thread should DEFINITELY have a thread about Report Of Marriage and the course and CFO stamp your spouse will need to exit the country--she will NOT be allowed to leave the Philippines without this once she gets a US visa in her passport!  I don't even see the point of a specific Phl thread if it's not gonna include stuff like that!)

 

My advice is get the I-130 filed ASAP and then start to work on the other issues.  Your I-130 will likely sit in a pile somewhere for a year until anyone even touches it, and only then does the US Gov't start doing anything about your application (technically it's just a petition / waiting mechanism for your actual later visa application.  Get it in TOMORROW!).  As for the name change, personally what I would do is file using her married name (her current first name, current last name, your last name).  I did NOT do this on form I-130 because we had zero documents showing that name (including the Utah marriage certificate) and that seemed weird to do, but I've read here that you can either do that OR use the new married name on the NEXT form (DS260, about a year later) regardless of how you filled out the I-130 so that's what I plan on doing.  Other than her taking your last name, I would leave any other name changes alone for now (her voluntarily wanting a different name than the one her parents gave her is a whole other can of worms that should be separated from her immigration process).  

The next step (take your time, no rush, it took us 6 months to collect everything) is to gather the documents for the Report of Marriage to the Philippine Consulate in Utah.  I don't know why this isn't a sticky here, but your wife will HAVE to report the marriage to PHL gov't before she is allowed to leave the Philippines so make sure you A) Send your Utah marriage certificate to get Apostilled by the Lt Gov of Utah, and B) start collecting the required docs like your birth certificate and have your wife do the same and allow 6 weeks for her to mail them to you (or go visit her).  This was a huge packet, that was more paperwork than the US visa!  But it's not hard.  And I'm not worried at all about the processing time, it's just something you want to do in advance of your US interview.  

 

I think you are overthinking the name stuff.  My wife is using whatever name is on her ID, and then once we get the Report of Marriage back we will get a new Phl Passport with my last name (costs like $15).  I guess at that point we would USE her last name, but there won't be much more USING to be done (buy the plane ticket in that name I guess?)

Basically K.I.S.S. and don't create problems where you don't need to.  Do only what is required.

 

6.1 You don't need Certificate of No Marriage (CENOMAR) for the USA at all.  You need it for Philippines authorities only.  USA is land of divorce, they don't care if your spouse has been married before or not!

7.3 The only original document you send is Apostilled marriage certificate and one notarized application form (plus copies of everything--there is a printed cover letter on the SF Consulate website explaining it all). 

7.4 Apostille stamp is something placed on your marriage certificate by the Utah Lt Governor, for a fee.  Mail him your certificate, a month later you get back the red apostille stamp on it.

7.5 Maybe I got lucky, but mine was approved without both parties signing.  The instructions are unclear.  If you can PM me I have a suggestion though.  Getting the Phl notary was overpriced and done incorrectly anyway.

8.1 Yeah we are anticipating 2 years total.  It's absolutely infuriating and the US should be embarrassed, but it is what it is.  Personally what we did was: visiting her family, visiting her in the PHL, visiting her in a third country (Taiwan, Japan), doing a prenuptial photo session and formal engagement & wedding ceremony there (the Utah event we considered a civil union that we did not consummate, I later did official proposal and all that), and planning the wedding there can be fun and a GREAT way to stretch out the time.  My other friend who did this went abroad and lived with his wife during the waiting (and had a baby and a first birthday before he even got an interview).

 

The bottom line is it is not as overwhelming as it seems, just get the I-130 form filed NOW.  There is so much waiting time that you can easily prepare the next steps in advance, and doing them one by one it's pretty simple as long as you don't have any out of the ordinary situations (like you are unemployed or something).

 

Oh the other thing that is a huge can of worms is the US income tax situation.  The US gov't has made it annoyingly difficult to apply for a tax ID # which your wife needs, which I've done by mail in the past, but is now an extremely obtuse process, and we went on several wild goose chases trying to follow their rules using supposed "IRS acceptance agents" who knew nothing about what we were attempting to do (apparently there is one guy in Clark who can do it).  The bottom line is we settled on filing income taxes "married filing separately" and then later when the wife gets here I get the joy of re-doing up to 3 years of old tax returns as "married filing jointly" but I will get several thousand dollars back from Uncle Sam then!  The only good thing about the long wait is you get a giant tax break beginning the year you marry! 

Edited June 19 by spicynujac

[Nathan Alden, Sr. 17]

@spicynujac Thank you for the very informative post! Regarding the name thing, I'm hoping to hear from someone who did use a new married name on the I-130 before having any "proof" or other documentation that used that name, and then learning about their experiences afterward. It's just that without knowing the last thing I want to do is make a mistake on something as seemingly important as her name, only to be RFEd or outright rejected a year from now. That would be crushing. The hard part for me is not knowing where the names given on Form I-130 are used later in the pipeline. Are green cards issued in that name specifically? Other documents that we'd have to change later? It makes it tough to make an informed decision.

 

I already have nearly all of Form I-130 filled out. I am just waiting on a couple of small things. Believe me: I can't wait to hit that submit button!

 

I ran into a couple of issues with the way Utah County handles marriage license applications. The first is that their application page on their website lacked a middle name field for my spouse. I didn't think much of it at the time but I should've insisted that they update the application by hand immediately after submitting it and before the marriage ceremony. The second is that they ask for the state where my spouse was born, which, for many countries, makes no sense. I entered a value of "Province of Misamis Occidental" but later decided it should be listed as "Misamis Occidental" since a province in the Philippines is really the closest political division to a US state and "Province of" is not included in the legal name of a Philippine province. I also ordered an apostille copy of the marriage license today after having them correct those mistakes. All told, it cost me almost $60 to reorder things. Additionally, they have yet to provide me with a new digital PDF of the marriage license that contains the Titan Seal. The clerk has been responsive, though, and I imagine I'll get this soon enough.

 

I figured out that I didn't need CENOMAR earlier today, luckily. Your advice is spot on!

 

Thank you for the tax advice. I had wondered about that some time ago but put it in the back of my mind since it's not even close to tax filing season. I'll probably contact an accountant to get advice on this when the time comes.

Edited June 19 by Nathan Alden, Sr.

[RO_AH 1,659]

1 hour ago, Nathan Alden, Sr. said:

 

You say that but on the online I-130 website, under the Additional Proof of Marriage section, the website says this:

 

 

This text was specifically why I was focusing on comingling our finances in some provable way. I figured that comingled finances would be better evidence than just easily-forged WhatsApp messages and affidavits. Obviously, I'll be submitting all three types of evidence in the end.

Disregard this. It is not needed and you will go nuts trying to achieve a joint account. Same with property, you can't even own property there as a foreigner. Only worry about the last bullet point. Records of ongoing chat history etc. None of the rest is needed.

[Nathan Alden, Sr. 17]

1 minute ago, RO_AH said:

Disregard this. It is not needed and you will go nuts trying to achieve a joint account. Same with property, you can't even own property there as a foreigner. Only worry about the last bullet point. Records of ongoing chat history etc. None of the rest is needed.

 

Thanks for the insistent advice, truly. I already determined that I can't add her as an authorized user of my credit card because the issuer requires a US SSN. I'll do what I can. 😊

[top_secret 2,458]

17 minutes ago, Nathan Alden, Sr. said:

I answered my own question regarding an apostilled copy of the Utah County marriage license: it needs to be ordered separately. This can be done here after the marriage license is registered.

 

USCIS doesn't even need the apostilled one.  The county certified one is just fine for US Immigration purposes so no need to wait for the apostille to file the I-130.  The Philippine Consulate in San Francisco will want the apostilled one for the report of marriage but that can come later. 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Nathan Alden, Sr. said:

 

You say that but on the online I-130 website, under the Additional Proof of Marriage section, the website says this:

 

 

This text was specifically why I was focusing on comingling our finances in some provable way. I figured that comingled finances would be better evidence than just easily-forged WhatsApp messages and affidavits. Obviously, I'll be submitting all three types of evidence in the end.

 

 

The examples they give there are just generic possibilities and most would probably apply much more to couples filing for adjustment of status in the US then a newly married couple with one spouse overseas.  It is unlikely you could easily open a joint bank account in either the US or the Philippines at this time and USCIS does not expect you to.  Almost all of your most important evidence would fall under the broad "Any other relevant documentation to establish there is an ongoing marital union" category.

[top_secret 2,458]

Just now, Nathan Alden, Sr. said:

 

Thanks for the insistent advice, truly. I already determined that I can't add her as an authorized user of my credit card because the issuer requires a US SSN. I'll do what I can. 😊

 

 

'Almost' all major US credit card banks will allow you to add authorized users with just a name and birthdate.  most will let you do it online.  We had Citi, Capital One, Chase, and Barlcays authorized user cards long before my wife had a SS#. 

[Nathan Alden, Sr. 17]

2 minutes ago, top_secret said:

 

 

'Almost' all major US credit card banks will allow you to add authorized users with just a name and birthdate.  most will let you do it online.  We had Citi, Capital One, Chase, and Barlcays authorized user cards long before my wife had a SS#. 

 

Lucky you. Neither my bank nor my Discover card allow that.