Dual-national CN/DE, ESTA with DE passport, while B1/B2 for CN processing is applied

[derdre 2]

Hello forum experts,

I have a rather technical question and seek for some confirmation for my thoughts below. I've contacted the U.S. consulate in Guangzhou as well as Berlin, but not sure if they really gonna respond to my question.

I am a German citizen living in Guangdong/China based on a family-reunion residence permit. I have 2 children, ages 8 and 10 born in China and holding the Chinese passport, as well as the German passport (due to my German citizenship as their father).

We plan to travel to the US by the end of July for about 4-5 weeks to meet old friends of mine and also to show my children part of the country.

A couple of days ago I submitted for my children (on behalf of their Chinese citizenship and passport) the DS-160 application with the Guangzhou U.S. consulate, received the CEAC confirmation and will pay and book an appointment in the upcoming days. However, I didn't realize the long waiting time for the interview appointment in Guangzhou, which is 113 days - most likely to happen in September. By that time we would have already returned back to China.
.
Our travel plan would include Germany as the first stop, from there, we would travel to the US and finally return back to China. Once we returned back to China in late August, I would continue to apply for their B1/B2 visa for their Chinese passports at the given interview appointment as initially intended.

So my actual, rather technical question is, if it is possible for my children for our planned summer trip to the US to use their German passports with a prior clearance using ESTA to apply for a US entry while I've already triggered the process to apply for a B1/B2 visa for their Chinese passports? I do not want to bring up some kind of confusion after all.

So, is the above way working and legit without further issues or a negative impact on their future B1/B2 visa approval?

Any hints and thoughts are greatly appreciated! Thanks for spending your time on my issue 🙂

Edited May 12 by derdre
typo

[Boiler 45,451]

Yes

 

Why are you applying for Bs?

[derdre 2]

2 hours ago, Boiler said:

Yes

OK, thanks. So for the upcoming trip I will do the ESTA way with their German passports.

 

2 hours ago, Boiler said:

Why are you applying for Bs?

 

The reason why I am applying for an B1/2 is a bit complicated to explain. Let's give it a try ...

 

If my kids leave China, they have to show their Chinese passport being Chinese nationals. They cannot use their German passport, cause they do not have a Chinese visa (like I do). If I travel with them to the EU/Schengen countries, they can prove that they are eligible to do so, cause they hold the German passport.

However, another time, if we travel directly to the U.S. from China they may have to show a U.S. visa in their Chinese passport.

 

Furthermore, we are going to leave China mainland via transit to Hong Kong airport (just 10 miles from us), hence you need to prove that you can leave China mainland without getting stranded in the no-where. Cause also Chinese mainland-nationals cannot just go to Hong Kong, they need a permit to do so.

 

By the way, I could imagine that the US consulate could well refuse them B1/2 cause they may say, why grant a visa if they can use their German passport and use VWP.  I certainly stated that they have another nationality. This is a question in the DS-160 form. But this would be a matter to explain in the interview.

 

And as a side note: When my children turn 18 they have to decide what passport they wanna keep. China doesn't (officially) recognize multiple nationalities . But that gonna a question in 8+ years, maybe that question wont be relevant anymore.

 

Hope this helps to clarify the our current situation.

[Boiler 45,451]

It can be very difficult to get a B when you have access to the VWP

 

If they are refused then they need to reapply doe ESTA and check the refused visa box which may come back with a refused ESTA.

[derdre 2]

2 hours ago, Boiler said:

It can be very difficult to get a B when you have access to the VWP

 

If they are refused then they need to reapply doe ESTA and check the refused visa box which may come back with a refused ESTA.

Yeah, you're right. Exactly my concerns. And leaving out/skipping the answer in the DS-160 form, having another citizenship (with an VWP-eligible passport) would surely result into perjury. Ain't gonna work that way.

 

So for now I am skipping the B-Visa application completely and my kids gonna travel with ESTA to the USA, that is a clean and fresh start.  For the future I will see what I can do, there's also some development going on with my wife and her work position in the US.

 

Thanks @Boiler for your input and that little push into the correct track, exactly what I was expecting asking my question in this forum! Much appreciated!

[appleblossom 2,448]

9 hours ago, derdre said:

If my kids leave China, they have to show their Chinese passport being Chinese nationals. They cannot use their German passport, cause they do not have a Chinese visa (like I do). If I travel with them to the EU/Schengen countries, they can prove that they are eligible to do so, cause they hold the German passport.

However, another time, if we travel directly to the U.S. from China they may have to show a U.S. visa in their Chinese passport.

 

I must be missing something, why can't they just use their German passports to enter the US, even if they've travelled straight from China?

[derdre 2]

7 hours ago, appleblossom said:

 

I must be missing something, why can't they just use their German passports to enter the US, even if they've travelled straight from China?

That is the weird exit/entry handling of the Chinese authorities that also includes not recognizing multi-national Chinese citizens. It is what it is. For China, my children are Chinese only, for the remaining (western) world, my children are bi-national.

It is the first time I am doing such a trip CN-> EU -> US -> CN with my kids and additionally I most likely have to apply for an exit/entry permit for them.

This trip in particular may be a bit more easy, cause we first travel to Germany. My kids are German nationals, so they do not get a Schengen visa. Same goes the other way around, for China, no Chinese visa, cause they are also Chinese nationals. Whatssoever, they need to use their German passport to travel to the EU, no matter what.
On the other hand, if we have a direct trip to the US, I have no idea, what kind of rocks the authorities may throw into our way. This is something to find out when that time comes, and it surely will come any time soon, after this summer.

Being Chinese-multi-national ain't a cake-walk, regardless of all pros being in such a position. This is what I also hear from other foreign fellows living/working in China, bi-national families, be it US, EU or whatever constellation.

 

My apologies I can not give more detailed information at this point. If this topic is of interest in this forum, I am happy to report back. I am not the only parent with multi-national Chinese born children. 

[Lil bear 4,181]

19 minutes ago, derdre said:

That is the weird exit/entry handling of the Chinese authorities that also includes not recognizing multi-national Chinese citizens. It is what it is. For China, my children are Chinese only, for the remaining (western) world, my children are bi-national.

It is the first time I am doing such a trip CN-> EU -> US -> CN with my kids and additionally I most likely have to apply for an exit/entry permit for them.

This trip in particular may be a bit more easy, cause we first travel to Germany. My kids are German nationals, so they do not get a Schengen visa. Same goes the other way around, for China, no Chinese visa, cause they are also Chinese nationals. Whatssoever, they need to use their German passport to travel to the EU, no matter what.
On the other hand, if we have a direct trip to the US, I have no idea, what kind of rocks the authorities may throw into our way. This is something to find out when that time comes, and it surely will come any time soon, after this summer.

Being Chinese-multi-national ain't a cake-walk, regardless of all pros being in such a position. This is what I also hear from other foreign fellows living/working in China, bi-national families, be it US, EU or whatever constellation.

 

My apologies I can not give more detailed information at this point. If this topic is of interest in this forum, I am happy to report back. I am not the only parent with multi-national Chinese born children. 

It may be worth considering always doing a 2 stage trip.. on 2 separate bookings.. the first to get out of China.. The second to fly to the US on the VWP using their German passports 

[derdre 2]

25 minutes ago, Lil bear said:

It may be worth considering always doing a 2 stage trip.. on 2 separate bookings.. the first to get out of China.. The second to fly to the US on the VWP using their German passports 

Exactly.

An option would be to first travel to a country having mutual visa exemption agreements with China. However, question remains, if I (non-Chinese) would need a visa for such country. LOL. I know some Germans, that have traveled to some other Asian country prior Germany/EU to just prevent to give knowledge about the German passport/reason to leave China. On the other side I also heard success stories about the exit/entry permit, and this is what I am going to try - at least for this planned CN-EU-US-CN summer trip.

[appleblossom 2,448]

1 hour ago, derdre said:

That is the weird exit/entry handling of the Chinese authorities that also includes not recognizing multi-national Chinese citizens. It is what it is. For China, my children are Chinese only, for the remaining (western) world, my children are bi-national.

I understand that, but what I’m not getting is why the children don’t leave just China on their Chinese passports, and then enter the US on their German ones (with ESTA).
 

That would save the cost and hassle of the B visa application - and remember if that’s refused (which it may well be if they’re eligible for the VWP), then getting another ESTA is likely to be much harder, so they could end up not being able to travel to the US at all. 
 

But I’m guessing there’s a reason you can’t do that? 
 

Edited May 13 by appleblossom

[derdre 2]

13 minutes ago, appleblossom said:

I understand that, but what I’m not getting is why the children don’t leave just China on their Chinese passports, and then enter the US on their German ones (with ESTA).
 

I agree with you, we're on the same line. Normally I would expect something like that to work - perhaps it is working like that. I just never did it before, I do not know anybody with a similar passport situation doing a direct trip from CN to the US.

 

Like stated above, I am going to use the exit/entry permit and in this case traveling to the EU should be possible with no hassle. Future trips (without EU in between) I will have to figure out using their German passports and ESTA approval.

 

13 minutes ago, appleblossom said:

That would save the cost and hassle of the B visa application - and remember if that’s refused (which it may well be if they’re eligible for the VWP), then getting another ESTA is likely to be much harder, so they could end up not being able to travel to the US at all. 
 

But I’m guessing there’s a reason you can’t do that? 
 

I already dropped that B-Visa idea. See earlier posts with @Boiler.

I've submitted the DS-160 applications, got a CEAC confirmation, but I haven't paid them nor booked an interview appointment and will not follow up. I will most definitely go the ESTA way. I don't want to risk a potential B-Visa refusal, followed by an ESTA refusal (cause the visa was refused).

[Pleasework89 47]

Hi! Hope your travel plans succeed. Would it be possible if I private message you later? My kid is also a special "dual" national. Unlike you, we didn't register them under the hukou or get them a Chinese passport. So our only travel option is with an exit permit. My understanding in regards to exit permit is that they are currently only being issued for travel to the conflicting nationality country. Check the WWAMBAM website for up to date info on exit entry permit advice. Good luck! 

[derdre 2]

18 hours ago, Pleasework89 said:

Hi! Hope your travel plans succeed. Would it be possible if I private message you later? My kid is also a special "dual" national. Unlike you, we didn't register them under the hukou or get them a Chinese passport. So our only travel option is with an exit permit. My understanding in regards to exit permit is that they are currently only being issued for travel to the conflicting nationality country. Check the WWAMBAM website for up to date info on exit entry permit advice. Good luck! 

What's good @Pleasework89. Thanks for your response and also that website hint. I also have a long term friend who works as an officer in the Chinese immigrations, awaiting his response. I hope he will have a few good points.

 

Yes, feel free to send me a message and contact me directly.  I just checked my forum inbox, but there's no message of yours. Perhaps it's the fact that I just signed up and haven't enough reputation to do so. I will check that.

 

I will surely, whatsoever, report back my findings on this topic and the further development. It might be of help to others in the future. 

[Operator 1,927]

On 5/12/2024 at 10:58 PM, appleblossom said:

I understand that, but what I’m not getting is why the children don’t leave just China on their Chinese passports, and then enter the US on their German ones (with ESTA).
 

In order leave the country you have to prove that you are able to enter the country you are traveling to.  With no visa in their Chinese passport they can't do that.

[Operator 1,927]

I realize this thread is a few weeks old but I'll throw this out there...

 

My son has a US and a Chinese passport.  We've run into the same issue several times and it can be especially difficult if the names in each passport is different.  We applied for and got him a Travel Document from the Chinese embassy in DC.  It's issued under his Chinese name but also lists his English name as written in his US passport  This allows him to enter and exit China on his US passport without a Chinese visa, they stamp his travel document and his US passport with entry and exit stamps.  It looks physically like a passport.

 

Hope this is helpful.