Off Topic Forum...

[KarenCee 3]

mmmmm....cappuchino! Espressos wind me up much! Hmmm...now that I think on it, a daily espresso might not be such a bad idea this school term.

[trailmix 77]

Welcome back krikit!! How was your holiday....stories to tell!?

[Krikit 1,163]

Welcome back krikit!! How was your holiday....stories to tell!?

Thanks, Trailmix! My holiday was fabulous. Except when British Airways lost my luggage in Barcelona. Did you know that one pair of men's underwear in London costs $50? We just got back last night. Well, technically, we got back August 4th, but we just had time to do the laundry, re-pack, then drive to Myrtle Beach to spend the rest of the week with my husband's family. I am SO glad to be back home. But I do have a great tan. And, yes, I have many stories to tell. But my brain is too fried to process it all at the moment. Plus, we've just had some terrible news and I'm very sad right now, so I'm still processing that. You know you're not thinking straight when you come to VJ for a bit of normalcy.

[trailmix 77]

Welcome back krikit!! How was your holiday....stories to tell!?

Thanks, Trailmix! My holiday was fabulous. Except when British Airways lost my luggage in Barcelona. Did you know that one pair of men's underwear in London costs $50? We just got back last night. Well, technically, we got back August 4th, but we just had time to do the laundry, re-pack, then drive to Myrtle Beach to spend the rest of the week with my husband's family. I am SO glad to be back home. But I do have a great tan. And, yes, I have many stories to tell. But my brain is too fried to process it all at the moment. Plus, we've just had some terrible news and I'm very sad right now, so I'm still processing that. You know you're not thinking straight when you come to VJ for a bit of normalcy.

Well it is semi-normal here

I'm so glad to hear that it was fabulous and that your Husband is now sporting the latest in European undergarments!

Sorry to hear you have had sad news. Get some rest, soak up some 'Florida' and you will be feeling right as rain in no time.

We missed you!

[Emancipation 2]

Welcome back krikit!! How was your holiday....stories to tell!?

Thanks, Trailmix! My holiday was fabulous. Except when British Airways lost my luggage in Barcelona. Did you know that one pair of men's underwear in London costs $50? We just got back last night. Well, technically, we got back August 4th, but we just had time to do the laundry, re-pack, then drive to Myrtle Beach to spend the rest of the week with my husband's family. I am SO glad to be back home. But I do have a great tan. And, yes, I have many stories to tell. But my brain is too fried to process it all at the moment. Plus, we've just had some terrible news and I'm very sad right now, so I'm still processing that. You know you're not thinking straight when you come to VJ for a bit of normalcy.

Krikit's Back!!!!

So sorry to hear about your terrible news... hang in there gal.

[MrsCat 6]

Welcome back Krikit - sorry to hear you came back to some bad news. Stay strong.

[MissStacey 1]

Info on dog food, but the system can probably be used on cat food. From my readings, pretty much any food you buy from a grocery store is junk! Same goes for the big box pet stores. majority of the high end foods are found in the smaller mom/pop stores or have to be ordered online----which many instances are cheaper than the mom/pop stores.

rating Dog Food

This method of grading dog food was developed by Sarah Irick. It is

not to be considered exact science but a starting point for people who

need help with how to read labels and choose a good food. You can read

about Sarah here. She has provided, with permission to Naper Doodles

to include on our website, the Grading Scheme, foods that have already

been graded in Alphabetical Order, and dog foods that have been graded

In Order of Score.

How to grade your dog's food

Start with a grade of 100 points

1) For every listing of "by-product", subtract 10 points

2) For every non-specific animal source ("meat" or "poultry", meat,

meal or fat) reference, subtract 10 points

3) If the food contains BHA, BHT, or ethoxyquin, subtract 10 points

4) For every grain "mill run" or non-specific grain source subtract 5

points

5) If the same grain ingredient is used 2 or more times in the first

five ingredients (i.e. "ground brown rice", "brewer's rice", "rice

flour" are all the same grain), subtract 5 points

6) If the protein sources are not meat meal and there are less than 2

meats in the top 3 ingredients, subtract 3 points

7) If it contains any artificial colorants, subtract 3 points

8 ) If it contains ground corn or whole grain corn, subtract 3 points

9) If corn is listed in the top 5 ingredients, subtract 2 more points

10) If the food contains any animal fat other than fish oil, subtract

2 points

11) If lamb is the only animal protein source (unless your dog is

allergic to other protein sources), subtract 2 points

12) If it contains soy or soybeans, subtract 2 points

13) If it contains wheat (unless you know that your dog isn't allergic

to wheat), subtract 2 points

14) If it contains beef (unless you know that your dog isn't allergic

to beef), subtract 1 point

15) If it contains salt, subtract 1 point

Extra Credit:

1) If any of the meat sources are organic, add 5 points

2) If the food is endorsed by any major breed group or nutritionist,

add 5 points

3) If the food is baked not extruded, add 5 points

4) If the food contains probiotics, add 3 points

5) If the food contains fruit, add 3 points

6) If the food contains vegetables (NOT corn or other grains), add 3

points

7) If the animal sources are hormone-free and antibiotic-free, add 2

points

8) If the food contains barley, add 2 points

9) If the food contains flax seed oil (not just the seeds), add 2 points

10) If the food contains oats or oatmeal, add 1 point

11) If the food contains sunflower oil, add 1 point

12) For every different specific animal protein source (other than the

first one; count "chicken" and "chicken meal" as only one protein

source, but "chicken" and "fish" as 2 different sources), add 1 point

13) If it contains glucosamine and chondroitin, add 1 point

14) If the vegetables have been tested for pesticides and are

pesticide-free, add 1 point

94-100+ = A

86-93 = B

78-85 = C

70-77 = D

69 = F

Following are some foods that have already been scored (alphabetical

order then ordered by score):

ALPHABETICAL ORDER:

Authority Harvest Baked / Score 116 A+

Bil-Jac Select / Score 68 F

Canidae / Score 112 A+

Chicken Soup Senior / Score 115 A+

Diamond Maintenance / Score 64 F

Diamond Lamb Meal & Rice / Score 92 B

Diamond Large Breed 60+ Formula / Score 99 A

####### Van Patten's Natural Balance Ultra Premium / Score 122 A+

####### Van Patten's Duck and Potato / Score 106 A+

Eagle Pack Holistic / Score 119 A+

Eagle Pack Holistic Chicken / Score 114 A+

Eagle Pack Large and Giant Breed Puppy / Score 94 A

Eagle Pack Natural / Score 94 A

Eukanuba Large Breed Adult / Score 83 C

Eukanuba Natural Lamb and Rice / Score 87 B

Flint River Ranch / Score 92 B (non-specific fat source)

Foundations / Score 106 A+

Hund-n-Flocken Adult Dog (lamb) by Solid Gold / Score 93 A

Iams Lamb Meal & Rice Formula Premium / Score 73 D

Iams Large Breed / Score 83 C

Innova Dog / Score 114 A+

Innova Evo / Score 114 A+

Kirkland Signature Chicken, Rice, and Vegetables / Score 110 A+

Kirkland Signature Puppy Chicken, Rice and Vegetable / Score 108 A+

Natural Balance Duck and Potato / Score 114 A+

Nutrisource Lamb and Rice / Score 87 B

Nutro Chicken, Rice, & Oatmeal / Score 85 C (non-specific fat source)

Nutro Natural Choice Large Breed Puppy / Score 87 B

Nutro Natural choice Lamb and Rice / Score 85 C

Ol Roy / Score 9 F

Pedigree Complete Nutrition / Score 42 F

Pedigree Adult Complete / Score 14 F

Pet Gold Adult with Lamb & Rice / Score 23 F

Pro Plan All Breed / Score 68 F

Pro Plan Natural Turkey & Barley / Score 103 A+

Purina Benful / Score 17 F

Purina Dog / Score 62 F

Purina Come-n-Get It / Score 16 F

Royal Canin Bulldog / Score 100 A+

Royal Canin Dachshund 28 Formula / Score 97 A

Royal Canin Natural Blend Adult / Score 106 A+

Sensible Choice Chicken and Rice / Score 97 A

Science Diet Advanced Protein Senior 7+ / Score 63 F

Science Diet chicken adult maintenance / Score 45 F

Science Diet for Large Breed Puppies / Score 69 F

Solid Gold Bison / Score 123 A+

Timberwolf Organics Lamb and Venison / Score 136 A+

Wellness Just for Puppy / Score 117 A+

Wellness Super5 Mix Chicken / Score 110 A+

Wolfking Adult Dog (bison) by Solid Gold / Score 97 A

NUMERICAL ORDER (BY SCORE):

Grade A

Timberwolf Organics Lamb and Venison / Score 136 A+

Solid Gold Bison / Score 123 A+

####### Van Patten's Natural Balance Ultra Premium / Score 122 A+

Eagle Pack Holistic / Score 119 A+

Wellness Just for Puppy / Score 117 A+

Authority Harvest Baked / Score 116 A+

Chicken Soup Senior / Score 115 A+

Eagle Pack Holistic Chicken / Score 114 A+

Innova Dog / Score 114 A+

Innova Evo / Score 114 A+

Natural Balance Duck and Potato / Score 114 A+

Canidae / Score 112 A+

Kirkland Signature Chicken, Rice, and Vegetables / Score 110 A+

Wellness Super5 Mix Chicken / Score 110 A+

Kirkland Signature Puppy Chicken, Rice and Vegetable / Score 108 A+

####### Van Patten's Duck and Potato / Score 106 A+

Royal Canin Natural Blend Adult / Score 106 A+

Foundations / Score 106 A+

ProPlan Natural Turkey & Barley / Score 103 A+

Royal Canin Bulldog / Score 100 A+

Diamond Large Breed 60+ Formula / Score 99 A

Royal Canin Dachshund 28 Formula / Score 97 A

Sensible Choice Chicken and Rice / Score 97 A

Wolfking Adult Dog (bison) by Solid Gold / Score 97 A

Eagle Pack Large and Giant Breed Puppy / Score 94 A

Eagle Pack Natural / Score 94 A

Hund-n-Flocken Adult Dog (lamb) by Solid Gold / Score 93 A

Grade B

Diamond Lamb Meal & Rice / Score 92 B

Flint River Ranch / Score 92 B (non-specific fat source)

Eukanuba Natural Lamb and Rice / Score 87 B

Nutrisource Lamb and Rice / Score 87 B

Nutro Natural Choice Large Breed Puppy / Score 87 B

Grades C and D

Nutro Chicken, Rice, & Oatmeal / Score 85 C (non-specific fat source)

Nutro Natural choice Lamb and Rice / Score 85 C

Eukanuba Large Breed Adult / Score 83 C

Iams Large Breed / Score 83 C

Iams Lamb Meal & Rice Formula Premium / Score 73 D

Grade F

Science Diet for Large Breed Puppies / Score 69 F

Bil-Jac Select / Score 68 F

Pro Plan All Breed / Score 68 F

Diamond Maintenance / Score 64 F

Science Diet Advanced Protein Senior 7+ / Score 63 F

Purina Dog / Score 62 F

Science Diet chicken adult maintenance / Score 45 F

Pedigree Complete Nutrition / Score 42 F

Pet Gold Adult with Lamb & Rice / Score 23 F

Purina Benful / Score 17 F

Purina Come-n-Get It / Score 16 F

Pedigree Adult Complete / Score 14 F

Ol Roy / Score 9 F

About the Author of this Food Grading Method:

My name is Sarah Irick and I am a Great Dane owner and rescue

volunteer. I am a Civil/Industrial Engineer, not a veterinarian or

animal nutritionist by education or employment. I do not work for a

pet food manufacturer nor am I affiliated with one. I am just an

individual who is concerned about what I feed my dogs and wants to

help others decide what to feed their own. I cannot remember the exact

date I designed this system, though I know it's been more than a year

(probably 2-3 years ago). I was concerned with the way people

sometimes throw out names of "good" dog foods that maybe aren't so

good, and others take their words for it. Foods that maybe used to be

good before their ingredients were changed for the worse or before

better options became available are still being touted by some as

being super-premium and I disagree. Since many pet owners do not have

the time or inclination to do as many hours of research into pet

(specifically dog) nutrition as I and many of you have, I wanted an

*easier* way for them to compare labels. Unfortunately it is still a

bit cumbersome (sometimes 2 people calculate the same food and get

different scores even) but it's better than nothing in my opinion.

Is it exact science? No. I don't claim for it to be. In fact I've had

to make a couple of changes over time (which the above don't reflect)

for new circumstances I've run across, such as the food that contained

NO MEAT (not a special diet just one that was so cheap it didn't

contain any meat at all) and needs a steep penalty IMO but still

scored a decent grade on the original or the newer kibbles that

contain no grain and IMO if it still has sufficient fiber and carbs

then it deserves extra credit that wasn't previously reflected. Also

I've gotten comments and opinions that I take seriously and

incorporate if it seems appropriate.

I don't have a permanent site host for this although seeing how hugely

popular it is and how widely spread without accreditation it has

become perhaps I should do so. It isn't that I care so much about

credit but many people will ask the questions that your posters have

about my affiliations and biases, etc.

I don't officially support any one food; anywhere that I personally

posted grades on specific foods it was to give an idea of where these

foods fell so people didn't always have to do the math. If you want to

e-mail me with questions or comments, you can at fredirick@hotmail.com

. This is my "spam" address, so put "Dog Food Grading" in the subject

line or I'll probably delete it mistakenly. ~ Sarah Irick

I had to search for this list again because I was telling Mel about it.

Ol Roy- 9 points????

What is made of- old Wal Mart flyers?

[Carlawarla 1]

Good Morning! Welcome back Krikit! Sorry to hear you've had bad news.

[Flames9_RN 358]

Years back when I worked at a grocery store, we used to sell tonns of that ol'roy #######, a huge 40lb bag was like $7!!

Premium food doesnt really cost that much more and it is soo much better for ur pet. Healthy pet = less vet bills!!

[Ban Hammer 13,110]

I had to search for this list again because I was telling Mel about it.

Ol Roy- 9 points????

What is made of- old Wal Mart flyers?

you know how old the greeters are at wal-mart. when they depart for heaven, their bodies still serve wal-mart.......

[trailmix 77]

Good morning everyone!

Hope you all had a lovely weekend!

I got up at the crack of dawn this morning with my Husband and we were sitting out on the patio (it was still dark) and my cat chases something over by my chair - it was just a small lizard - but really they need to stay outside the screen.

[Emancipation 2]

EEK Trailmix!! I don't like little critters in my living space

so i'm trying to be good lately.. gained some weight that I really don't want to stick around. Just feeling a little puffy & larger these days.. *sigh.. I hate the food you have to eat in order to be thin.. really.. why can't fish & chips keep you slim?

[Chica Yeyé 41]

Good morning to everyone, incuding trailmix's lil'critters

Welcome back sister Krikit, you were missed.

[Krikit 1,163]

Thanks Carla, Catt, Len, and Emancipation! I missed you guys. And, of course, you too Trailmix.

I got up at the crack of dawn this morning with my Husband and we were sitting out on the patio (it was still dark) and my cat chases something over by my chair - it was just a small lizard - but really they need to stay outside the screen.

I had a landscaping guy come by to look at the back yard and I asked him about putting up a cage to keep the lizards out. He says it doesn't work..... which I've figured out by myself because doors don't keep them out either. They're sneaky buggers. I had my husband stuff steel wool in the sliding glass door before we left on vacation..... I had visions of a whole herd of them inside the house by the time we got home.

so i'm trying to be good lately.. gained some weight that I really don't want to stick around. Just feeling a little puffy & larger these days.. *sigh.. I hate the food you have to eat in order to be thin.. really.. why can't fish & chips keep you slim?

I can so relate. I blame it on the HFCS and all the chemicals in the food here. It's been really difficult keeping them out of my diet. When your body is not used to it and then suddenly it's inundated, it doesn't know how to get rid of them properly. I managed to lose some weight while I was away (yes, even with 24/7 cruiseship feasts ) because I was back to eating foods without them. I've just come back from a 4 mile walk so I'm trying to keep the momentum going. I still have a lot more to lose. It's amazing how much you can pile on in such a short amount of time.

Edited August 11, 2008 by Krikit

[Chica Yeyé 41]

Tofu is your friend

But it tastes like nothing