221g

[Jenn! 918]

Looks like the tide has turned in here.

Instead of nasty Casa CO's we seem to have a lot of VJ liars.

[babybunny 2]

The bottom line is if there are petitions that have "red flags", the consulate will just return them and let BCIS deal with them because the consulate has neither the time nor the staff to investigate these flags. They plain just dont care and they pass the buck so to speak. So I guess for all of those of us who have red flags, count on a possible return in your case. Take heart though, because if you have all your ducks in a row, you will overcome the flag and get your DF/DH here in time. That is key...TIME!

That is the good news for the day!!

Not such good news, I'd say.

My advice for anyone just starting out: address your red flags in a cover letter in your original I-129F petition.

The good news is that it is a good bet if you have red flags, be prepared for a return. No surprises.

Your advise is good. Just don't know if it will help. Like I said, Casa doesn' have the time nor the staff to check out the flags, so be aware.

It would be good to see suggestions on what to write regarding the red flags. Any ideas? Such as age difference, religious difference etc.

yeah

apprently CASA dont allow you the chance to address them prior the interview good advise.

but, not all embassys act this way. ISL for example no one had pettitons returned. except for one that I recall was a denial - man had another wife. SU GENTE.

[morocco4ever 63]

Ohiobuck,

Of course I see the reasoning behind some of what you are saying, but you are leading people wrong yourself. The picture isn't always black and white. It seems you are suggesting that all of us that had our petitions sent back are lying to everyone on VJ. How do you know that? You don't know me, or Chiquita, Fatima, or Kiya, as well as a list of others. Maybe I read this wrong because I am feeling somewhat defensive at this point, but how do you know we are all lying?

I am not here to scare people, nor am I learning much from someone else because our case is much further in the process than most. I have been honest on the fact that I have red flags, but you seem to miss some vital points here. How can it be a fair interview if they refuse to look at any evidence?

You say we are here to scare people? In what way? Informing them on what are the possible red flags, which I have posted on other strings. These are important to know so you can address them if given the opportunity.

We have different personalities on this board, some want to know all of the situations so they can prepare, and some want to smell only the roses. I came to this board to learn facts, and yes I have had a variety of advice. One person told me that we were going to have a rough interview because of the age difference, and I appreciated hearing that. It didn't help us, but it somewhat prepared us.

I don't want to see anyone go through what I have been going through, so I have tried so hard to be informative and supportive of all. Thats all we really want from anyone here isn't it?

You talk about treating Mr McKeever with kindness? Good point! I agree totally. You catch more bees with honey afterall. But seriously, your tone is pretty harsh in itself. Lighten up on us here...we are going through a pretty bad time, and a simple "wish you the best" would do nicely.

[babybunny 2]

Ohiobuck,

Of course I see the reasoning behind some of what you are saying, but you are leading people wrong yourself. The picture isn't always black and white. It seems you are suggesting that all of us that had our petitions sent back are lying to everyone on VJ. How do you know that? You don't know me, or Chiquita, Fatima, or Kiya, as well as a list of others. Maybe I read this wrong because I am feeling somewhat defensive at this point, but how do you know we are all lying?

I am not here to scare people, nor am I learning much from someone else because our case is much further in the process than most. I have been honest on the fact that I have red flags, but you seem to miss some vital points here. How can it be a fair interview if they refuse to look at any evidence?

You say we are here to scare people? In what way? Informing them on what are the possible red flags, which I have posted on other strings. These are important to know so you can address them if given the opportunity.

We have different personalities on this board, some want to know all of the situations so they can prepare, and some want to smell only the roses. I came to this board to learn facts, and yes I have had a variety of advice. One person told me that we were going to have a rough interview because of the age difference, and I appreciated hearing that. It didn't help us, but it somewhat prepared us.

I don't want to see anyone go through what I have been going through, so I have tried so hard to be informative and supportive of all. Thats all we really want from anyone here isn't it?

You talk about treating Mr McKeever with kindness? Good point! I agree totally. You catch more bees with honey afterall. But seriously, your tone is pretty harsh in itself. Lighten up on us here...we are going through a pretty bad time, and a simple "wish you the best" would do nicely.

I have to agree with you!

I have been sitting here trying to muster the words for Paula. I cant. I am going back to the

" its gonna hurt me more than its gonna hurt you " logic. its pretty harsh.

I think the hard part is facing a denial./ return petition. it he11. I certainly come here to support those persons. I pray each and every person on here stay strong and dont loose it.

stay organized, stay focus and certainly communicate with your sweeties..

I have noticed something common in all denials. the CO never looked at any of the proof. a few ladies mentioned this in their cases..

[ohiobuck 0]

Paula you are correct, and to the attitude or follow-ups toward Casa. The attitude as if we are right and Casa is wrong will NOT get you anywhere. I believe to be somewhat nice but firm when dealing with Casa, BCIS, NVC etcs and being otherwise will not get you anywhere. Not one couple here or at another group or websites reasons for denial is the same as the next person. Everyone's situation are different even though we may feel we are up against the same situation same denials or same points but they are not. We dont know every little details As Paula mentioned our denials can not possibly be the same situation as another here but we can learn from each one. We can only read posts and take what information that will help us from BCIS website or Dept of State. How can people here be so judgemental? I thought our post were to help each other. My husband and I have been waiting to be together for a long time maybe as long as some of others here perhaps longer. But what's happened to the support and helping that was once here. We are all under alot of stress but some of these posts have gotten so out of hand.

Thank you Fatima for seeing what I was trying to get at and I hope it helps people in the future. You are so right about each of our cases being different, I know in my case it took 10 3/4 months before my husband was able to get our K3 Visa and to be with my wonderful husband. My husband and I learned so much from others mistakes and successes and we forced ourselves to try to look at our own case honestly and to prepare in everyway possible (though we are human and I am sure we still have more eye opening, but we did see things trust me we didn't want to admit could be viewed poorly by the CO). And I can't state with a fact but other couples that did the same amount of work and preparation like we did all seemed to get their visas also and some of them had so many reasons to worry they wouldn't get the visa. I think not going into the visa process assuming you are due the visa and making sure everything was as good as you could make them to get the visa I feel was the magic step. I know I might have seemed rude with my original posting but I want others to have the great value I found with honest sharing to be successful and get the visa.

I also want to recommend Dale Carnigie books and training for some of you preparing for interviews. This training gives perfect techniques that help people in these situations so we get what we need and want vs. coming out losers. I highly recommend his books and training so you can prepare for the interviews and later if you get denied you can use the same techniques to make the Consulate reverse it in your favor.

Wish all of you the best to be with your love soon and God Bless you Fatima and your husband and hope to be hearing you are with your husband soon.

Paula

Well my husband got his visa and the CO didn't really look at his evidence much so I am not sure if there is a common link with evidence not really being looked at and why these people are getting denied. If it was that easy then we could try to figure out how to make them look at the evidence and avoid all future denials. Wish it was that easy. One suggestion I had my husband do with his evidence was to label on the outside clearly (in English) what evidence was inside. That way I hoped the CO would know we had the evidence and would give us a mental credit for it, even if they didn't ask for it. You have to play the mental game and win over the CO is my opinion.

Paula

Ohiobuck,

Of course I see the reasoning behind some of what you are saying, but you are leading people wrong yourself. The picture isn't always black and white. It seems you are suggesting that all of us that had our petitions sent back are lying to everyone on VJ. How do you know that? You don't know me, or Chiquita, Fatima, or Kiya, as well as a list of others. Maybe I read this wrong because I am feeling somewhat defensive at this point, but how do you know we are all lying?

I am not here to scare people, nor am I learning much from someone else because our case is much further in the process than most. I have been honest on the fact that I have red flags, but you seem to miss some vital points here. How can it be a fair interview if they refuse to look at any evidence?

You say we are here to scare people? In what way? Informing them on what are the possible red flags, which I have posted on other strings. These are important to know so you can address them if given the opportunity.

We have different personalities on this board, some want to know all of the situations so they can prepare, and some want to smell only the roses. I came to this board to learn facts, and yes I have had a variety of advice. One person told me that we were going to have a rough interview because of the age difference, and I appreciated hearing that. It didn't help us, but it somewhat prepared us.

I don't want to see anyone go through what I have been going through, so I have tried so hard to be informative and supportive of all. Thats all we really want from anyone here isn't it?

You talk about treating Mr McKeever with kindness? Good point! I agree totally. You catch more bees with honey afterall. But seriously, your tone is pretty harsh in itself. Lighten up on us here...we are going through a pretty bad time, and a simple "wish you the best" would do nicely.

I have to agree with you!

I have been sitting here trying to muster the words for Paula. I cant. I am going back to the

" its gonna hurt me more than its gonna hurt you " logic. its pretty harsh.

I think the hard part is facing a denial./ return petition. it he11. I certainly come here to support those persons. I pray each and every person on here stay strong and dont loose it.

stay organized, stay focus and certainly communicate with your sweeties..

I have noticed something common in all denials. the CO never looked at any of the proof. a few ladies mentioned this in their cases..

[Jenn! 918]

Well my husband got his visa and the CO didn't really look at his evidence much so I am not sure if there is a common link with evidence not really being looked at and why these people are getting denied. If it was that easy then we could try to figure out how to make them look at the evidence and avoid all future denials. Wish it was that easy. One suggestion I had my husband do with his evidence was to label on the outside clearly (in English) what evidence was inside. That way I hoped the CO would know we had the evidence and would give us a mental credit for it, even if they didn't ask for it. You have to play the mental game and win over the CO is my opinion.

Paula

That's an important point you just made. I think many of us have forgotten this fact in our rage at the unfair practices in Casa. My husband was approved, and, like you, the CO barely looked at anything he brought.

This supports the theory that Casa makes up its mind before the interview.

[babybunny 2]

Paula. <<< huggg>>

good points! I dont like sugar coating things either I like your style honest and raw- thats what we all would like to hear. at the same time.

Leila is hurting right now

do you have suggestions on what she should do as of now? I think we all agree its critical to get ther case reverse now! what she be doing?

[babybunny 2]

has anyone gotton past the returned petition phase of their case? was there any reversals? was there anyone that once the petition got back was the USC interviewed? was there anyone that has gotton that far yet?

[kerewin21 2]

That's an important point you just made. I think many of us have forgotten this fact in our rage at the unfair practices in Casa. My husband was approved, and, like you, the CO barely looked at anything he brought.

This supports the theory that Casa makes up its mind before the interview.

With us too, they looked at one picture, that was it. Didn't even look at our I-134.

Now, back to crockpots...

I ended up having too much stuff to put in my small crockpot, so I made it on the stove, but once it had cooked down some I put it in the crockpot and cooked it for like 6 hours, it came out great. I made a beef tagine, which is basically stew.

[morocco4ever 63]

has anyone gotton past the returned petition phase of their case? was there any reversals? was there anyone that once the petition got back was the USC interviewed? was there anyone that has gotton that far yet?

As far as I know Chiquita has gone the furthest on this process. Her petition was re-affirmed. Of course she was going the K-3, and now the CR1 is approved. I was happy to see that she was able to overcome the denial, and will be relieved to see her husband get a well deserved visa.

I believe that certain ones are set aside for a more stringent interview, and it should. Age difference is a big one. I think they prepare tougher in depth questions for these earmarked petitions.

This is why it is so important to address your red flags in advance. My husband was prepared for all of the red flags, but he stumbled on one question. They asked him if he has relatives in the US. He said and ex brother in law and a sister. Oh big mistake!! Anyone out there have an ex of any kind in the US, they are not related anymore...lol.... So this is why I am pretty sure I know why ours was sent back, and this is why he didn't bother to look at the rest of our evidence. He has some idea that the ex was an american that was paid by his sister to come to the US, and now they are divorced. Oh man....this has turned into a mess for us. The ex is from a different sister that has never been in the US. The sister that is here is still married to the man that petitioned her. They tried to find her in the system, but couldn't find her. My husband gave the CO his sisters nick name of Khadija, not her given name of Khadouj. They asked him if his sister arranged our marriage...this is the question that makes me think that they suspect I was paid. This is one reason I am not too worried, if my suspicions on why ours was sent back, then it will be so easy to prove once they look at it again. The time apart is what is killing us...for one stupid innocent answer. I believe wholeheartedly that ours was earmarked for a deep investigation...and I believe it should have been. You see, the age difference gave us the tough interview, the confusion about his family is what set it over the edge for us. For any one that has had their petitions returned I have advised them to have their SO's write a list of questions and answers. I think these men (or women) don't understand exactly what happened, but we as US citizens can better disect the questions to see where the error was. Honestly, as my husband and I prepared for the interview this situation never came to mind.

I have a FOIA request out there, and the last I heard from my attorney they had requested more information from here. So hopefully soon I will have that in hand and can see for myself if my strong suspicions are correct, that they think I am being paid. I will keep everyone posted.

Now I have a question. I have heard it is important to address the red flags on the cover letter, which is a good point. One thing though, I used a cover letter for the I-130 and the I-129f. Those were both approved without a problem (except that they lost the I-129f). So when would you use a cover letter for the consulate? On the DS-230? In the instructions I read I never saw that on any of the instructions that I read. Did anyone on this forum do this, and if so, do you think it helped your case?

[ohiobuck 0]

Ohiobuck,

Of course I see the reasoning behind some of what you are saying, but you are leading people wrong yourself. The picture isn't always black and white. It seems you are suggesting that all of us that had our petitions sent back are lying to everyone on VJ. How do you know that? You don't know me, or Chiquita, Fatima, or Kiya, as well as a list of others. Maybe I read this wrong because I am feeling somewhat defensive at this point, but how do you know we are all lying?

I am not here to scare people, nor am I learning much from someone else because our case is much further in the process than most. I have been honest on the fact that I have red flags, but you seem to miss some vital points here. How can it be a fair interview if they refuse to look at any evidence?

You say we are here to scare people? In what way? Informing them on what are the possible red flags, which I have posted on other strings. These are important to know so you can address them if given the opportunity.

We have different personalities on this board, some want to know all of the situations so they can prepare, and some want to smell only the roses. I came to this board to learn facts, and yes I have had a variety of advice. One person told me that we were going to have a rough interview because of the age difference, and I appreciated hearing that. It didn't help us, but it somewhat prepared us.

I don't want to see anyone go through what I have been going through, so I have tried so hard to be informative and supportive of all. Thats all we really want from anyone here isn't it?

You talk about treating Mr McKeever with kindness? Good point! I agree totally. You catch more bees with honey afterall. But seriously, your tone is pretty harsh in itself. Lighten up on us here...we are going through a pretty bad time, and a simple "wish you the best" would do nicely.

I am not even going to read these responses anymore, I never said anyone else lied. Don't put words in my messages, that only proves to me you don't like hearing the truth. We as a group should be helping Leila find ways to get her denial reversed not just support at this point since time is so short for her right now. But she also needs to be honest for us to help her and to use her information to help future members not yet at this stage of the process. Are you to much in a hurry to make her a new member of the denied club so you don't feel alone to try to get it reversed so she a member of the new visa holders????????? If we have to be blunt to get her to see what needs to be done and expected for us to help her then you are the one seeing how this group should work.

[honeyblonde 0]

Congratulations Sharon. Learning to cook for our men can be a challenge but it sounds like you're getting there.

On the topic of dealing with the government - it's what I do for a living. I can tell you from experience that going in screaming, unless you have an established relationship with that person and know they sympathize, never works.

On the other hand, you have to remember every person working for immigration is, surprisingly, HUMAN! Yeah, I know that sucks. but they're just like us. They have bad days, some have sour personalities, and many have pre-formed prejudices. It won't matter what you do with these people, they're gonna come at you with attitude.

I've seen so much fussing in here about "that's against the law!" and "They can't do that". People, we live in a common law country, not civil. What that means is that no matter what the law says on paper, what the courts will go by is precedent. Every law can be interpreted at least two ways, and the one the court will follow will be based on how it was handled in previous cases. Add to that the fact that the current political climate will influence things, no matter how much it isn't supposed to (even the Supreme Court knows when to respect a president over their own beliefs in what is right, if you want cases I can give them). In our political climate it really isn't going to matter how mad a few women get about not being able to get their middle eastern husbands here. National Security is going to take precedent. You can scream till the cows come home about your "rights", but all that will get you is labeled unstable probably.

If you really want progress, I agree with Paula, if you aren't good at communicating peacefully, either start studying or get someone else to help you, not necessarily an attorney. A few months ago a member here was having a battle with a consulate that had her husband's visa but was lying and not giving it to him. She sent me some info and I wrote an e-mail for her to send them. He had his visa in about a week. I have studied how to talk to people to get what I want for years, this isn't something that came natural to me. There are plenty of good books in most libraries if you really want to learn. It certainly paid off for me to study it because now it's a big part of what I get paid to do. If you want your SO here, it should be a priority for you too, instead of just coming here ranting and raving.

I have seen some here who were denied visas that frankly when I saw their reaction all I could say was that maybe somehow their personality came through in their application. But I've also seen others, like Fatima who I know personally, who are sweet dear people who would have a hard time offending anyone. Neither extreme is going to work, but I know that the petitioner's personality isn't why they were denied. We can speculate forever about what happened in each case, but as has been said, all we can do to truly help is to learn the red flags and try to explain them up front.

Barbara, you asked if it really helped to explain up front. Yes, I think it does. I had some, and I wrote an almost 1 page supplement explaining them. I was at an export seminar today and one of the things our attorney was stressing was that if a company becomes aware that they have violated a law, the best thing they can do is go tell the government. It is the same for us. If we know we have a red flag, we have to address it in our initial application. What to say - just tell them like you'd tell us. Honestly say what happened in everyday words. In this respect we're lucky that they are human. They know as well as anyone that humans make mistakes. Of course don't go say "yeah, I committed fraud in the past, but I'm not now." If you have committed fraud there are penalties you will have to pay such as JAIL! Some things aren't mistakes, they are crimes.

Just my $20 worth again. Sorry for the book.

One quick addition - don't address issues in the cover letter, do it in a supplement. Put a note next to the question the answer to will raise the flag and say "see supplement". In the supplement you put the question number (this is all in the instructions on their website for submitting forms to them), and your explanation and be sure to sign and date it.

Edited April 10, 2006 by honeyblonde

[ohiobuck 0]

Paula. <<< huggg>>

good points! I dont like sugar coating things either I like your style honest and raw- thats what we all would like to hear. at the same time.

Leila is hurting right now

do you have suggestions on what she should do as of now? I think we all agree its critical to get ther case reverse now! what she be doing?

I've given very sound advice to Leila in earlier messages you can read earlier in this posting. Among the last I encouraged her to spend this last weekend sending really good e-mails to the Consulate, her Senators and her Congressman to get them all working to get her denial reversed. I even offered her a form letter that she could use to fax her Congressman and Senators permission for them to represent her, if she still hasn't gotten that to them. She could fax it and they could start right away helping her, since there is no time for delays. Since I didn't hear from her I hope she has already passed this stage.

For anyone that hasn't gotten to the interview stage, please contact your Congressman and Senators now and sign these release forms so if it goes bad they can help right away. I pray it all goes good, but we all need to be prepared and you can't afford to waste time when it is most important at that time. If you want just message me and I will send you a form and I will even be happy to help you find out who is your representatives are, so you know how to contact them. Plus it might not even hurt you to show the Consulate you have these people supporting you before the interview and that you are a serious woman in need of her man. Evidence is evidence even maybe the e-mails we send to the Consulate before our interviews and after to clarify and fix a denial if we are a couple with such bad news. I thought I once read someone say they saw the copies of their e-mails in their file during the interview. If they saw it, then the CO saw it and if I was a CO I would take this is as a serious couple. And if these e-mails are well wrote if I was the CO, I might be willing to take this as a reason to be positive and likely to approve the visa vs. another couple. Please think like the CO so you can get the Visa, these steps can't hurt if you send a well written e-mail to the Consulate by way of you or through your Congressmand and Senators assistance. .

Paula

has anyone gotton past the returned petition phase of their case? was there any reversals? was there anyone that once the petition got back was the USC interviewed? was there anyone that has gotton that far yet?

About a month ago Mary K. got her denial reversed and they got the K3 before it was sent back to the states and she had to wait all the long months like others have to do. She just picked him up like a week ago in the Atlanta airport and I want to help others copy Mary K. and get their denials reversed just like she did so they have their husband/fiancee also. I think if I remembered right Mary K's husbands interview was Feb 27th and he arrived around March 28th into Atlanta after the original denial was reversed.

Please be positive and help others do the same as Mary K.

Mary K. I hope you see this message and write back to let everyone know what you did to get it reversed.

Did you have your Congressman and Senators all set up with permission to help you before the interview?

Did you e-mail or call or what and how soon after the interview with the denial and what exactly did you do and say? Please post and I will try and save the link so I can copied to others in the future to help them.

Thanks,

Paula

[morocco4ever 63]

"I guess some of you only want things the way you want them and don't care about honesty and upsetting future people going through the immigration process which is a shame. I have been through this process and it is hell. And it is made worse by people like you who spread false information making others feel like your cases are as pure as any case and there is no reason to get denied. How is that going to make others coming behind you think; that Casa is going to deny them too"

Your words.

All I am saying is to play nice. There is a kinder gentler way of expressing yourself.

Such as Leila, why don't you tell us what was said in the interview? Do you have any of the red flags? Then respond by saying, "now if I was a CO, this might be what I am thinking. Your edge is a little rougher than most people can handle.

BTW, I have already been giving her support and trying to help her in such a manner. Not only that, it was the advice of all of us that have had denied petitons that helped MaryandAtif get theirs approved. We aren't anxious to get anyone else in our club, it is a nightmare that none of us deserve. These women are good decent women that wouldn't wish this on anyone. I have had the pleasure of chatting with them several times and I truly wish the best for them all.

Its okay if you don't respond anymore, I honestly don't expect you too. I just want people to see all points of views, and decide for themselves, thats all.

Ohiobuck,

Of course I see the reasoning behind some of what you are saying, but you are leading people wrong yourself. The picture isn't always black and white. It seems you are suggesting that all of us that had our petitions sent back are lying to everyone on VJ. How do you know that? You don't know me, or Chiquita, Fatima, or Kiya, as well as a list of others. Maybe I read this wrong because I am feeling somewhat defensive at this point, but how do you know we are all lying?

I am not here to scare people, nor am I learning much from someone else because our case is much further in the process than most. I have been honest on the fact that I have red flags, but you seem to miss some vital points here. How can it be a fair interview if they refuse to look at any evidence?

You say we are here to scare people? In what way? Informing them on what are the possible red flags, which I have posted on other strings. These are important to know so you can address them if given the opportunity.

We have different personalities on this board, some want to know all of the situations so they can prepare, and some want to smell only the roses. I came to this board to learn facts, and yes I have had a variety of advice. One person told me that we were going to have a rough interview because of the age difference, and I appreciated hearing that. It didn't help us, but it somewhat prepared us.

I don't want to see anyone go through what I have been going through, so I have tried so hard to be informative and supportive of all. Thats all we really want from anyone here isn't it?

You talk about treating Mr McKeever with kindness? Good point! I agree totally. You catch more bees with honey afterall. But seriously, your tone is pretty harsh in itself. Lighten up on us here...we are going through a pretty bad time, and a simple "wish you the best" would do nicely.

I am not even going to read these responses anymore, I never said anyone else lied. Don't put words in my messages, that only proves to me you don't like hearing the truth. We as a group should be helping Leila find ways to get her denial reversed not just support at this point since time is so short for her right now. But she also needs to be honest for us to help her and to use her information to help future members not yet at this stage of the process. Are you to much in a hurry to make her a new member of the denied club so you don't feel alone to try to get it reversed so she a member of the new visa holders????????? If we have to be blunt to get her to see what needs to be done and expected for us to help her then you are the one seeing how this group should work.

[lostinthought 0]

Congratulations Sharon. Learning to cook for our men can be a challenge but it sounds like you're getting there.

On the topic of dealing with the government - it's what I do for a living. I can tell you from experience that going in screaming, unless you have an established relationship with that person and know they sympathize, never works.

On the other hand, you have to remember every person working for immigration is, surprisingly, HUMAN! Yeah, I know that sucks. but they're just like us. They have bad days, some have sour personalities, and many have pre-formed prejudices. It won't matter what you do with these people, they're gonna come at you with attitude.

I've seen so much fussing in here about "that's against the law!" and "They can't do that". People, we live in a common law country, not civil. What that means is that no matter what the law says on paper, what the courts will go by is precedent. Every law can be interpreted at least two ways, and the one the court will follow will be based on how it was handled in previous cases. Add to that the fact that the current political climate will influence things, no matter how much it isn't supposed to (even the Supreme Court knows when to respect a president over their own beliefs in what is right, if you want cases I can give them). In our political climate it really isn't going to matter how mad a few women get about not being able to get their middle eastern husbands here. National Security is going to take precedent. You can scream till the cows come home about your "rights", but all that will get you is labeled unstable probably.

If you really want progress, I agree with Paula, if you aren't good at communicating peacefully, either start studying or get someone else to help you, not necessarily an attorney. A few months ago a member here was having a battle with a consulate that had her husband's visa but was lying and not giving it to him. She sent me some info and I wrote an e-mail for her to send them. He had his visa in about a week. I have studied how to talk to people to get what I want for years, this isn't something that came natural to me. There are plenty of good books in most libraries if you really want to learn. It certainly paid off for me to study it because now it's a big part of what I get paid to do. If you want your SO here, it should be a priority for you too, instead of just coming here ranting and raving.

I have seen some here who were denied visas that frankly when I saw their reaction all I could say was that maybe somehow their personality came through in their application. But I've also seen others, like Fatima who I know personally, who are sweet dear people who would have a hard time offending anyone. Neither extreme is going to work, but I know that the petitioner's personality isn't why they were denied. We can speculate forever about what happened in each case, but as has been said, all we can do to truly help is to learn the red flags and try to explain them up front.

Barbara, you asked if it really helped to explain up front. Yes, I think it does. I had some, and I wrote an almost 1 page supplement explaining them. I was at an export seminar today and one of the things our attorney was stressing was that if a company becomes aware that they have violated a law, the best thing they can do is go tell the government. It is the same for us. If we know we have a red flag, we have to address it in our initial application. What to say - just tell them like you'd tell us. Honestly say what happened in everyday words. In this respect we're lucky that they are human. They know as well as anyone that humans make mistakes. Of course don't go say "yeah, I committed fraud in the past, but I'm not now." If you have committed fraud there are penalties you will have to pay such as JAIL! Some things aren't mistakes, they are crimes.

Just my $20 worth again. Sorry for the book.

One quick addition - don't address issues in the cover letter, do it in a supplement. Put a note next to the question the answer to will raise the flag and say "see supplement". In the supplement you put the question number (this is all in the instructions on their website for submitting forms to them), and your explanation and be sure to sign and date it.

I think laying all your cards out on the table shows you are not going to hide things, you are no ashamed or nervous, you are not playing games, and that you know what you want and are prepared to present your case. We ALL have red flags. Doesn't matter what country. I can't imagine any couple being the "ideal" from the viewpoint of the consulates. I did the same in my cover letter. I left nothing out, even when my SO was embarassed at a few of the things. I told him we simply cannot hide and bend the truth if want to be successful.