The acceptance of proxy marriages vs traditional ones?

[pushbrk 13,334]

  On 1/11/2024 at 1:26 PM, nastra30 said:

I will assume you'll also have to divorce current husband and re-marry him. I might be wrong.

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That's one of the things that depends on the country.  To marry the same person in the same jurisdiction would usually require divorce.  In Philippines there is no divorce.

 

If he does the Utah County, I would not even COUNT the first marriage to the beneficiary as having been married, since it's not legal.  If they marry in the same country they did 10 years ago, then a divorce would be needed.  When explaining why, he will be admitting to crime of Bigamy.  How that will be treated, depends on the country.

 

First stop should be a family law attorney in that same country.

[millefleur 5,050]

  On 1/12/2024 at 12:01 AM, pushbrk said:

If he does the Utah County, I would not even COUNT the first marriage to the beneficiary as having been married, since it's not legal. 

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That's what I thought too, but you and the others raised a good point: definitely better to consult with a local attorney in the country where the marriage originally took place and double check with that. 

 

OP if you could share with us the country where you originally married that might help you get better input from other members here. 

[Osee 0]

Thanks or chiming in everyone. This is getting really confusing. Basically its coming down to...should we or should we not mention our marriage? If no then are we saying that we were together for 10 years as boyfriend-girlfriend. We have zero ties to the country of marriage and don't have plans to go back there. We're not sure where we'll be getting married. We might do the Utah Zoom marriage.

 

Another thing is how soon after getting married can we apply for CR1?

 

And lastly, we've been doing married filing jointly. I don't know how this might factor in

[Boiler 46,666]

  On 1/17/2024 at 3:55 AM, Osee said:

Thanks or chiming in everyone. This is getting really confusing. Basically its coming down to...should we or should we not mention our marriage? If no then are we saying that we were together for 10 years as boyfriend-girlfriend. We have zero ties to the country of marriage and don't have plans to go back there. We're not sure where we'll be getting married. We might do the Utah Zoom marriage.

 

Another thing is how soon after getting married can we apply for CR1?

 

And lastly, we've been doing married filing jointly. I don't know how this might factor in

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I assume you need to refile but that is something for your CPA.

[nastra30 2,479]

  On 1/17/2024 at 3:55 AM, Osee said:

And lastly, we've been doing married filing jointly. I don't know how this might factor in

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IMO, this could cause all sorts of issues especially with N400 down the line. Since your marriage was invalid your MFJ filing status (with current spouse) was also invalid. See IRM 21.6.1.5.7.

https://www.irs.gov/irm/part21/irm_21-006-001r#idm140639320237040

 

Talk to a family lawyer and a CPA.

Edited January 17, 2024 by nastra30

[pushbrk 13,334]

  On 1/17/2024 at 11:45 AM, nastra30 said:

IMO, this could cause all sorts of issues especially with N400 down the line. Since your marriage was invalid your MFJ filing status (with current spouse) was also invalid. See IRM 21.6.1.5.7.

https://www.irs.gov/irm/part21/irm_21-006-001r#idm140639320237040

 

Talk to a family lawyer and a CPA.

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Yes, and you'll probably need to amend at least your 21 and 22 tax returns, which is unlikely to impact your tax liability anyway.

 

Whether you continue to have ties to the country of your most recent marriage, does not mean it is irrelevant.  It's not about your feelings.  The fact may well be quite important.  Is it some kind of secret?

 

My suggestion that it might be best not to list the bigamist marriage, was not to keep THAT a secret, but rather to be entering accurate information, as you know that FACT today.  That you were party to a marriage, you later found out was legally invalid, need not be a secret.  Just explain.  These things happen.  You dealt with it as appropriate and necessary.  All who need to understand, WILL understand.  It's a non-issue, as long as it is dealt with honestly.

 

 

Edited January 17, 2024 by pushbrk

[Osee 0]

  On 1/17/2024 at 10:53 PM, pushbrk said:

Whether you continue to have ties to the country of your most recent marriage, does not mean it is irrelevant.  It's not about your feelings.  The fact may well be quite important.  Is it some kind of secret?

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Didn't mention that because i thought it was irrelevant or that i felt anything particular about it. I was simply replying to the comments saying that we'd have to get divorced by pointing out the  logistical infeasibility of it since we don't live there anymore.

 

  On 1/17/2024 at 10:53 PM, pushbrk said:

My suggestion that it might be best not to list the bigamist marriage, was not to keep THAT a secret, but rather to be entering accurate information, as you know that FACT today. 

That you were party to a marriage, you later found out was legally invalid, need not be a secret.  Just explain.  These things happen.  You dealt with it as appropriate and necessary.  All who need to understand, WILL understand.  It's a non-issue, as long as it is dealt with honestly.

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Got it! But which column does that go in the forms?

 

 

  On 1/17/2024 at 10:53 PM, pushbrk said:

 

 

 

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[pushbrk 13,334]

  On 1/28/2024 at 7:41 PM, Osee said:

 

Didn't mention that because i thought it was irrelevant or that i felt anything particular about it. I was simply replying to the comments saying that we'd have to get divorced by pointing out the  logistical infeasibility of it since we don't live there anymore.

 

 

Got it! But which column does that go in the forms?

 

 

 

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You "get divorced" where you live now, but where you married can be an issue depending on other things. It may or may not be relevant, and most likely relevant if it she country that issued one or the other of your passports.  

 

You can explain in open fields on the last two pages of the I-130 and I-130a forms.

[Osee 0]

  On 1/28/2024 at 10:24 PM, pushbrk said:

You "get divorced" where you live now, but where you married can be an issue depending on other things. It may or may not be relevant, and most likely relevant if it she country that issued one or the other of your passports.  

 

You can explain in open fields on the last two pages of the I-130 and I-130a forms.

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Can't get divorced where i am now because spouse/spouse-to-be isn't here. And no, we are not citizens or residents of where we got married.

 

Given the above, how should we proceed?

 

I know there is a section here where that is available but if you don't mind, could you give me a quick rundown on all the forms that we will be required to fill out so i can have a look at them to get an idea of what information would be required and if there would be problems filling it out given our unique situation? 

[pushbrk 13,334]

  On 1/28/2024 at 11:22 PM, Osee said:

 

Can't get divorced where i am now because spouse/spouse-to-be isn't here. And no, we are not citizens or residents of where we got married.

 

Given the above, how should we proceed?

 

I know there is a section here where that is available but if you don't mind, could you give me a quick rundown on all the forms that we will be required to fill out so i can have a look at them to get an idea of what information would be required and if there would be problems filling it out given our unique situation? 

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Glick on the word "Guides" at the top of any page here to understand the process.  Download the main form, and it's instructions, then become an A-Student of BOTH.

 

Divorces worldwide are only granted where people LIVE.  Only one must be there, either one, but the other must be "served".  Google "divorce in (the country where you life) or contact a family attorney THERE.  As long as it was not the Philippines, it PROBABLY doesn't matter where you married, but WHY is it a secret?

 

[Osee 0]

  On 1/12/2024 at 12:01 AM, pushbrk said:

That's one of the things that depends on the country.  To marry the same person in the same jurisdiction would usually require divorce.  In Philippines there is no divorce.

 

If he does the Utah County, I would not even COUNT the first marriage to the beneficiary as having been married, since it's not legal.  If they marry in the same country they did 10 years ago, then a divorce would be needed.  When explaining why, he will be admitting to crime of Bigamy.  How that will be treated, depends on the country.

 

First stop should be a family law attorney in that same country.

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Why is what "a secret"? Where we got married? I've already answered you that. 

Like I said, can't get divorced  where i currently am (that's a fact). They are saying either both of us have to be here or i have to be a citizen, or to do it at my embassy. But the embassy doesn't do marriages and divorce. Family law attorneys aren't really knowledgeable with matters concerning non-citizens. They say go to your embassy. 

 

Edited January 29, 2024 by Osee

[pushbrk 13,334]

  On 1/29/2024 at 8:15 PM, Osee said:

Why is what "a secret"? Where we got married? I've already answered you that. 

Like I said, can't get divorced  where i currently am (that's a fact). They are saying either both of us have to be here or i have to be a citizen, or to do it at my embassy. But the embassy doesn't do marriages and divorce. Family law attorneys aren't really knowledgeable with matters concerning non-citizens. They say go to your embassy. 

 

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Then one or both of you will need to go reside someplace where you CAN get divorced, for long enough to accomplish it.  Nevada comes to mind.  Hong Kong works too, as a place maybe you could both go.

 

[pushbrk 13,334]

Having read back over this, to clear up any confusion, the divorce in question is the one from the first wife, to whom the OP is still married.  That marriage MUST BE disclosed, and the evidence it was ended by death or divorce, must be provided.  Once that is accomplished, where an how the remarriage is accomplished, doesn't matter, as long as it is legal and lawful where it is officiated.

 

Probably need to reside first, for some period (90 days or less depending on which US State) before filing.  You'll need to research which State will work, and how/whether you can serve by publication etc.  It's a mess but there ARE solutions.

[Osee 0]

  On 1/30/2024 at 12:56 AM, pushbrk said:

Having read back over this, to clear up any confusion, the divorce in question is the one from the first wife, to whom the OP is still married.  That marriage MUST BE disclosed, and the evidence it was ended by death or divorce, must be provided.  Once that is accomplished, where an how the remarriage is accomplished, doesn't matter, as long as it is legal and lawful where it is officiated.

 

Probably need to reside first, for some period (90 days or less depending on which US State) before filing.  You'll need to research which State will work, and how/whether you can serve by publication etc.  It's a mess but there ARE solutions.

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Question: If US law doesn't see it as legal, then why would it be treated so? If it's not valid, then why does it have to be invalidated?

[OldUser 8,650]

  On 2/11/2024 at 4:16 PM, Osee said:

 

Question: If US law doesn't see it as legal, then why would it be treated so? If it's not valid, then why does it have to be invalidated?

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The way I understand it, US sees your first marriage as legal. US doesn't allow being married to several people, thus second marriage is not valid.