Another Denial

[mindthegap 2,589]

Thank you all of you, and also thanks to those that DM'd me. Really, thank you all so much, as you possibly kept me from pirouetting off the Brooklyn Bridge which is how I felt on Friday evening when I opened the mailbox...

I'm truly, totally and utterly exhausted and sick of this, I'm sick of USCIS, I'm sick of having certain parts of life effectively on hold and in perpetual limbo...

 

However....

 

 

 

So........

 

 

 

 

 

 

No.

Way.

It is the principal of it. So buckle up buttercups, this is gonna get messy....

 

 

 

 

 

[mindthegap 2,589]

On 1/6/2024 at 11:49 AM, Sukie said:

Do you live in a state with a sympathetic senator?

 

You would think so....but no. All they have done in the past is forward my enquiry form on to them, via fax (which I can see in my FOIA responses, so they were definitely sent). Thats it. Which did not speed up anything whatsoever. No amount of follow up, pleases for assistance, or anything else did anything. 

So, effectively useless. 

 

 

On 1/6/2024 at 2:12 PM, carmel34 said:

Lawyer up and prepare for immigration court, where you would hopefully get a fair hearing in front of a judge instead of the incompetent fools at USCIS.  I've heard that the backlog of cases means that you would have another 2-3 years before the actual hearing.  Another I-751 filing may just prolong the frustration.  I would also sue your ex for making false statements, it sounds like a defamation case to me.  Sue for damages, win, and take the result of that suit to immigration court.  Good luck whatever you decide to do!

 

 I mean, call me cynical, but I don't have high hopes for the words 'fair hearing' in any capacity regarding USCIS.  The backlog for everything is ridiculous, so regardless of whether it is another filing, or waiting for court, I remain in limbo. 

If I could sue, believe me I would. Unfortunately there is a massive difference between what you know and what you can prove..

 

On 1/6/2024 at 5:35 PM, Old_Glory said:

You are probably right! Any one else probably would have given up after denial number 1.

 

You've probably done enough research and ground work over the best part of the last decade to help a freshly minted lawyer to well on his or her way to their immigration law bar (if there's such a thing) and I've been lurking on this forum since 2016 & I've seen enough from your helpful posts to think that maybe you should have taken the bar exam yourself  Honestly, you've helped a lot of people over the years and much respect to you.

 

 

It was seriously being considered... there are so many abysmal lawyers out there, fleecing people for information freely available with a little research, or worse still, telling them incorrect or downright adverse information.

I have accumulated a ridiculous amount of knowledge of this journey, to the extent I can quote chunks of INA and field manuals verbatim from memory, and by helping people going through the same, it is my way of giving something back. 

 

On 1/6/2024 at 5:44 PM, TBoneTX said:

Keep fighting.  Fight like hell.  Don't let those illegitimate male children win.

 

'Don't let the (removed) grind you down' is the traditional english phrase for that, and you are completely right. 

 

On 1/6/2024 at 6:46 PM, Ontarkie said:

I can totally understand being done.

 

@Old_Glory said it best.  You have done so much research, so much fighting. I don't think any of us can even begin to comprehend every stone you turned every page you've read. All of what you have done over and over and over again. 

 

It is easy for all of us to say keep fighting. We're not the ones going through all of this. Only you know when enough is enough. Do what is best for you. 

 

 

It's the mental strain more than anything. The perpetual limbo I live in, more of those bloody stamps at least once a year, worrying if the mail is going to contain another denial, or an NTA...worrying about a denial or something happening when out of the country, and worrying coming back into the country, and having to visit secondary every single time. It is exhausting. I try to put it out of my mind as much as possible, but it is *always* there. For a while it significantly affected my health, both mentally and physically. 

 

 

 

 

On 1/6/2024 at 7:43 PM, igoyougoduke said:

sorry to hear that. this must be beyond frustrating. i can help you draft a mandamus for free if you choose to sue them in court .

 

On 1/6/2024 at 8:21 PM, igoyougoduke said:

mandamus can be filed for wrongfull denial too. you can fight it in court if you believe that USCIS has not done its job correctly.  it works 

 

If that is a serious offer, then I'm in. Please DM me. 

I'm not going down without a fight. 

 

On 1/6/2024 at 8:05 PM, OldUser said:

Isn't mandamus to force a decision? @mindthegap doesn't seem to have an issue getting a decision. Can it help getting a favorable decision though? 

 

Quite. The issue is the negative decision, and the fact that they are completely disgregarding their own procedures, policies, and protocol, ignoring vast chunks of my case,  and are fixated on one aspect of my case, seemingly at the expense of everything else. 

 

On 1/6/2024 at 9:57 PM, African Zealot said:

Don’t just give up. Step away from immigration issues for a couple weeks and decompress, after that and with a clear head reevaluate. Setup a framework to use in making the decision whether to continue or not.

 

Sometimes a fight to the bitter end is worth it. Other times although it sounds valorous, it’s not worth it. You alone can decide after looking at the facts and options. On the bright side your worst case scenario of back to the UK is better than most e.g. Somalia, Afghanistan etc. 

 

Best.

 

Thank you. Unfortunately, I can't wait weeks... USCIS and the process is glacially slow at the best of times, but this is one of those situations where I can't be slow. And you are quite correct, that a fight here is worth it, if nothing else for the principal of it.

 

On 1/7/2024 at 4:06 AM, Joyoussinger said:

I'm so sorry this has happened. Whatever you decide to do, I wish you happiness. I would definitely contribute to a GoFundMe, if, as @Old_Glory suggested, you start one.

 

Thank you. I am (despite some of my at times angry posts giving the impression to the contrary), far too quiet, humble, and modest to set up such a thing or ask people for money.

 

On 1/7/2024 at 8:04 AM, Crazy Cat said:

I am certainly no expert, but I wonder if it's time to present your case before an IJ.  I have heard that there is a very high approval rate at that level.  

 

Do you have a source or any figures for that? Obviously removals for overstay/ failed asylum claims etc are very different to this, and I've never looked at any figures for this specifically. 

 

On 1/7/2024 at 8:12 AM, JeanneAdil said:

yeah,  i wrote my own appeal to Immigration court of appeals and won the appeal 

its worth it

 

i also fought 6  years and 2 denials and he finally got visa 

 

you are here 

don't let this system beat u

 

Thank you. If I may ask if you could DM me some details of what you did, it would be appreciated.  I would be very interested in hearing about this. 

Gives me a modicum of hope.

 

On 1/7/2024 at 11:50 AM, A110 said:

While the denial can indeed be very frustrating, there is no downside in keeping up the fight. 

 

Other than insane costs, ridiculous shark lawyer fees, bankruptcy, (another) mental/nervous breakdown, and of course the possibility of it being entirely futile and not winning, sure, there are absolutely no downsides

 

 

On 1/7/2024 at 12:29 PM, A110 said:

Correct, but I'm pretty sure OP can cough up the money for a refill. 

 

A refile, yes. Endless lawyers fees? No. 

 

18 hours ago, Rocio0010 said:

And proper English chocolate. I've come to learn, through one of his masterpieces, that OP doesn't like Hersheys (can you blame them?)

 

It tastes like feet dipped in sour milk. 

I'm a choc-a-holic, and a family sized bar of English Cadbury's dairy milk is snack sized to me (seriously, I'll inhale it)...but the US stuff? YUK. I won't touch it. Probably a good thing, so I can enjoy my semi-regular shipments of the good stuff. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 8 by Ontarkie
by-passing language filter

[mindthegap 2,589]

21 hours ago, Family said:

Ah .. time for a cup of tea, a medicinal jug of gin and as another suggested , a two week postponing of immigration thoughts or life altering decisions.

 

I have heard you often enough , on this forum, advocating for the scared /distraught posters caught up in the I-751 w divorce hell :

It’s Not Over Til The Fat Lady Sings ( opera ref ) …or the IJ rules ..heck but even then there is BIA appeal of IJ decision AND even the PFR / Petition for Review.

 

Would you really tell a tired soul to just give up ?..I think not. ..especially since I Know YOU will WIN. 

This denial is a blessing in disguise ..as the fight became a personal crusade for you and bloody hell it did drain and tire you a bit..so DENIAL is a good thing and a positive GAME CHANGER! In your favor😂

 

Thank you . I decided to write a separate reply post for you and for this, as it really helped when I read it.  Your contributions have been invaluable and I hope are still. Thank you so much.

 

You are, of course, completely correct. I have so many times told people to stick with it, relax, stay calm, that the wheels of immigration turn slowly.

 

As for whether I will win? Well, it kind of shakes your confidence after so long (9 years) and three denials. Monumental gaslighting that makes me think I am going mad.

 

21 hours ago, Family said:

I hope you look at the decade old fight w USCIS as a win for you …honestly you messed with them IN STYLE 😂. I still chuckle at the Thousands of Pages of motions and submissions you piled them with . 

 

 

You mean my third filing, like this 😂?

 

That is over 30lb of paperwork before boxing, 40 separate sections, spanning somewhere around 5000+ pages (lots were double sided printing) of evidence. It cost me hundreds to fedex, wore out two printers, and cost a fortune in ink (quick, buy Brother shares now!) 

And did they read all of it? No. Did they list most of it? No. 

Did they focus on their sole point of contention, seemingly at the expense of everything else?

Absolutely. It is RIDICULOUS.

 

21 hours ago, Family said:

W EOIR , the govt has the burden to prove fraud/misrep beyond a reasonable doubt ..so even if USCIS denial claimed sham/fraud …they won’t make their case. 
 

If denial is purely for failure to meet bonafides…you got that covered .

 

Well, that is useful, as first was for 'improper filing' (more on that in a moment).

The second was because I included not much evidence (because it was in the first filing), and had 'not overcome the basis for the first denial (and they also said all the credit card statements and documents were easily editable and forgeable, which made me really mad).

The third they have outright called it a fraudulent or sham marriage (using those exact words). Except, elsewhere in the same denial they state that it was clear at the time of filing that 'the marital relationship had begun to deteriorate and termination of the marriage was imminent'.

Erm...it can't be both 😅 can it? It's a sham marriage that had begun to deteriorate? What planet are these clowns on?

 

The crux of the fraud claim is this (and I'm no longer going to hide it, because (removed) them): my ex spouse, shortly after we separated and had stopped speaking for ever except via lawyers, went to USCIS, and claimed that they had no knowledge of, did not consent to, and did not signed the I-751, and that I f orged their signature on the joint I-751.

Thats it. That is the whole reason for this mess. Hell hath no fury like a sociopathic malignant-narcissist scorned (and discovered cheating and still using narcotics, again)

 

That is categorically and provably false (two people who witnessed the signing the I-751 have written statements to that effect), not to mention sending copies of emails that were echanged between me, them, and family members,  after the fact proving the knowledge of the existence of it, even a couple of emails with a full page scan of the I-751 extension letter attached (and visible). Not to mention the fact that we we entered the US at the CBP booth together a few months after filing, using that very I-751 extension letter ('oh what's that big piece of paper honey? Haven't seen that before...').

And, the biggest point of all,  the  monumentally stupid underlying fact that escapes these pea brained imbeciles, is that an I-751 can be filed without the spouses signature in the first place, which renders that whole argument null.

Why the hell would someone be STUPID enough to forge a signature that isn't even required in the first place, with a form that can be filed at any time solo? It's utterly nonsensical. I have an exceptionally high IQ, but even if I had an IQ of under 75 I wouldn't be THAT stupid. 

 

BUT WAIT...there's more.

They claim the fraud detection unit have reviewed 'multiple documents' and have thus determined a clearly forged signature. I submitted multiple examples of official documents - multiple country passports, multiple countries drivers licences, and other official and unofficial documents, demonstrating that their signature changed almost on a weekly basis and was different on every single one.  IGNORED.

 

 

Doesn't matter that I refiled from scratch with a waiver, instead of amending it. They still keep circling back to that same false allegation, undermining everything. There are massive errors in the adjudication, they have ignore vast folders of documents.

 

They claim that this allegation was discussed in my single I-751 interview for the first filing (as it is supposed to be, as per policy)....well, dear reader (nod to you swifties there) I can tell you they did not. They asked if it was my spouse's signature, and I said it was, because it was. 

It was not discussed beyond that single question........and I can prove it.

You know how I can prove it? Because (and you will love this) I audio recorded that entire interview, and the mp3 has been safe and sound stored in multiple places and backed up in my dropbox for 7 years now. 

 

it is a joke. And I am stuck in the middle of it. 

 

So I sincerely hope that they have to prove it, rather than me disproving it. Do you have any links to the legalese of that?

 

21 hours ago, Family said:

Just for clarity to thread . ..OP will not refile another I-751 w USCIS. He will be ref to immigration court and IJ will review .

As a theoretical , if IJ denies , then BIA appeal ..if BIA denies , then PFR petition for review in circuit court ( not immigration court).

 

Interesting, because the first denial was in 2017. No NTA to date. The second was in 2021. No NTA to date. All three filings were filed with and adjudicated by USCIS, and my file is still within USCIS (the eeyore automated case system shows no case, and I check it very regularly, including making it a ritual that it is the very last thing I do before I board a flight out of the US for peace of mind).

I can only think that because I have refiled so very fast each time, that it is within the 'hold' period that gets checked by them (see here from my FOIA response):

 

and consequently it stays within USCIS. That would make sense...non?

 

So, I find myself at a crossroads right now as to what to do. Refile? Wait? Do nothing? Either way it is going to be a long, messy, mess, 

 

 

Anyway...I'm ranting a tad. Time for a hot chocolate and a scone. 

Edited January 8 by Ontarkie
by-passing language filter

[mindthegap 2,589]

If you read all of that and understood it, then get yourself a cup of tea and a biscuit (and maybe a therapist and a glass of scotch)

 

Oh, and if USCIS is reading this (and I know some of them do):

 

[Boiler 45,445]

I am not an Immigration Lawyer by any stretch but know a now ex Immigration Judge (retired), went to his retirement do, very interesting.

 

So the one thing that was very apparent, and now this is Denver but I would place a quite reasonable amount on it being the same elsewhere, is that they all seemed to know each other, they deal with each other most days and it is for them a Job, Business nothing personal.

 

So I would use a Lawyer who was well versed with the local USCIS office, knows the head honcho, has been to the sort of event I went to numerous times, and see if they can get it sorted on the basis of we really do not want to do this but here is the brief and if we can not sort out  amicably we will see you in Court and it is going to be embarrassing. I only know one ex IJ and no current ones and seriously doubt he would have any time for this.

[Ontarkie 14,216]

~~Two posts edited for TOS Violation. - By-passing the language. Please do not continue to ignore TOS. This will be the only warning.~~

[mindthegap 2,589]

40 minutes ago, Ontarkie said:

~~Two posts edited for TOS Violation. - By-passing the language. Please do not continue to ignore TOS. This will be the only warning.~~

Apologies. I'm sure you can appreciate the frustration in my posts. 

I thought the words were sufficiently censored and obscured. Hey, I even looked for & found the correct gif without the f word 😂

 

[TBoneTX 45,258]

Dude, we say three things in Texas:

 

1.  No matter how hard the winter, spring always comes.

2.  Life ain't in holdin' a good hand but in playin' a poor one well.

3.  If you have a hill to climb, waitin' won't make it smaller.

 

As a first next step, I suggest contacting this VJ member (attorney) who has helped with VAWA cases for years:

https://www.visajourney.com/profile/16778-sandra-g/

 

Send her a link to this thread.

 

Sandra can at least advise you, and she can recommend which of the paths suggested in this thread should come next:

 -- refile

 -- appeal to an IJ

 -- file a WoM

or something else entirely.  If she can help directly, I urge you to hire her.  She's as honest as they come, and she has helped many dozens of (at least) desperate VAWA applicants.

 

If her VJ mailbox is full, let me know, because we Mods have a way around that (what do you call it) sticky wicket.

 

As we also say in Texas:

No man in the wrong (USCIS) can stand up against a man who's in the right (mindthegap) and keeps on comin'.

Edited January 8 by TBoneTX

[TBoneTX 45,258]

Sandra is also in the NYC area, if that's where you also are.

[Family 3,988]

1 hour ago, mindthegap said:

Apologies. I'm sure you can appreciate the frustration in my posts. 

I thought the words were sufficiently censored and obscured. Hey, I even looked for & found the correct gif without the f word 😂

 

I am a bit slow here😂…for a moment I thought Poor T-Bone and the Biblical Ref post . ..

I wonder if saying USCIS can Go Forth And Multiply ..works
 

[mindthegap 2,589]

1 minute ago, TBoneTX said:

Sandra is also in the NYC area, if that's where you also are.

I am. Have sent a message. Thanks for the hook up and words. Means a lot. 

[TBoneTX 45,258]

Just now, mindthegap said:

I am. Have sent a message. Thanks for the hook up and words. Means a lot. 

Wonderful, dude.  All fingers crossed.

 

Another Texas saying:  The only kind of equality that counts is being equal to the occasion.

I think that you're fully up to it.

[Family 3,988]

5 hours ago, mindthegap said:

 

Thank you . I decided to write a separate reply post for you and for this, as it really helped when I read it.  Your contributions have been invaluable and I hope are still. Thank you so much.

 

You are, of course, completely correct. I have so many times told people to stick with it, relax, stay calm, that the wheels of immigration turn slowly.

 

As for whether I will win? Well, it kind of shakes your confidence after so long (9 years) and three denials. Monumental gaslighting that makes me think I am going mad.

 

 

 

You mean my third filing, like this 😂?

 

That is over 30lb of paperwork before boxing, 40 separate sections, spanning somewhere around 5000+ pages (lots were double sided printing) of evidence. It cost me hundreds to fedex, wore out two printers, and cost a fortune in ink (quick, buy Brother shares now!) 

And did they read all of it? No. Did they list most of it? No. 

Did they focus on their sole point of contention, seemingly at the expense of everything else?

Absolutely. It is RIDICULOUS.

 

 

Well, that is useful, as first was for 'improper filing' (more on that in a moment).

The second was because I included not much evidence (because it was in the first filing), and had 'not overcome the basis for the first denial (and they also said all the credit card statements and documents were easily editable and forgeable, which made me really mad).

The third they have outright called it a fraudulent or sham marriage (using those exact words). Except, elsewhere in the same denial they state that it was clear at the time of filing that 'the marital relationship had begun to deteriorate and termination of the marriage was imminent'.

Erm...it can't be both 😅 can it? It's a sham marriage that had begun to deteriorate? What planet are these clowns on?

 

The crux of the fraud claim is this (and I'm no longer going to hide it, because (removed) them): my ex spouse, shortly after we separated and had stopped speaking for ever except via lawyers, went to USCIS, and claimed that they had no knowledge of, did not consent to, and did not signed the I-751, and that I f orged their signature on the joint I-751.

Thats it. That is the whole reason for this mess. Hell hath no fury like a sociopathic malignant-narcissist scorned (and discovered cheating and still using narcotics, again)

 

That is categorically and provably false (two people who witnessed the signing the I-751 have written statements to that effect), not to mention sending copies of emails that were echanged between me, them, and family members,  after the fact proving the knowledge of the existence of it, even a couple of emails with a full page scan of the I-751 extension letter attached (and visible). Not to mention the fact that we we entered the US at the CBP booth together a few months after filing, using that very I-751 extension letter ('oh what's that big piece of paper honey? Haven't seen that before...').

And, the biggest point of all,  the  monumentally stupid underlying fact that escapes these pea brained imbeciles, is that an I-751 can be filed without the spouses signature in the first place, which renders that whole argument null.

Why the hell would someone be STUPID enough to forge a signature that isn't even required in the first place, with a form that can be filed at any time solo? It's utterly nonsensical. I have an exceptionally high IQ, but even if I had an IQ of under 75 I wouldn't be THAT stupid. 

 

BUT WAIT...there's more.

They claim the fraud detection unit have reviewed 'multiple documents' and have thus determined a clearly forged signature. I submitted multiple examples of official documents - multiple country passports, multiple countries drivers licences, and other official and unofficial documents, demonstrating that their signature changed almost on a weekly basis and was different on every single one.  IGNORED.

 

 

Doesn't matter that I refiled from scratch with a waiver, instead of amending it. They still keep circling back to that same false allegation, undermining everything. There are massive errors in the adjudication, they have ignore vast folders of documents.

 

They claim that this allegation was discussed in my single I-751 interview for the first filing (as it is supposed to be, as per policy)....well, dear reader (nod to you swifties there) I can tell you they did not. They asked if it was my spouse's signature, and I said it was, because it was. 

It was not discussed beyond that single question........and I can prove it.

You know how I can prove it? Because (and you will love this) I audio recorded that entire interview, and the mp3 has been safe and sound stored in multiple places and backed up in my dropbox for 7 years now. 

 

it is a joke. And I am stuck in the middle of it. 

 

So I sincerely hope that they have to prove it, rather than me disproving it. Do you have any links to the legalese of that?

 

 

Interesting, because the first denial was in 2017. No NTA to date. The second was in 2021. No NTA to date. All three filings were filed with and adjudicated by USCIS, and my file is still within USCIS (the eeyore automated case system shows no case, and I check it very regularly, including making it a ritual that it is the very last thing I do before I board a flight out of the US for peace of mind).

I can only think that because I have refiled so very fast each time, that it is within the 'hold' period that gets checked by them (see here from my FOIA response):

 

and consequently it stays within USCIS. That would make sense...non?

 

So, I find myself at a crossroads right now as to what to do. Refile? Wait? Do nothing? Either way it is going to be a long, messy, mess, 

 

 

Anyway...I'm ranting a tad. Time for a hot chocolate and a scone. 

Do NOT refile w USCIS. Once they made  a fraud finding on the initial joint , they will deny ANY subsequent waiver of joint filing. It is a matter of credibility..and 30 lbs did not sway the discretion ..so go to court and win on standards . 

 

Wait for NTA ..it’s coming . They may skewer w you and delay filing it w EOIR but you will get there. 
 

Consult attorneys w removal defense expertise ( A MUST) and ask outright if they have worked w fraud findins and are also experienced w BIA appeals in case it will be required to appeal IJ decision . 
 

Prepare for consult w attorneys by gathering

1. Copy of the 3 denials 

2. Copy of your above post to me 😂 It’s short , to the point and avoids the $$$ money needed just to look over at your file .  

3. Allow the attorney to ask questions ..and reign in impulse to tell your story or turn over your box . 
4. Ask the attorney who has burden of proof in a contested hearing and what standard of proof required .

 

5. Let go , if you can . Trust the hired guns 

..it will be ok
 

 

Here’s a random attorney site, they talk the talk …so do a consult

https://www.lawfirm4immigrants.com/204c-prior-marriage-fraud-bar/#:~:text=The USCIS field office reconsiders,authority to review such decisions.

Meanwhile, 204(c) doesn’t necessarily apply in every case of a denied benefit request due to insufficient substantial and probative evidence in establishing the bona fide marriage.

For the rule to hold, the adjudicating officer or DA has to establish that the individual entered the marriage fraudulently or that the previous marriage has ended lawfully.

Therefore, in the case of insufficient evidence to prove the legitimacy of a marriage, section 204 c does not attach. It only holds when it’s been proven beyond reasonable doubt that the individual is guilty of the marriage fraud allegations.

 

Edited January 8 by Family

[Family 3,988]

I will repeat this point , in case I missed something first time around:

DO NOT refile w USCIS.

Go to court and have the IJ look over YOUR bonafides , actually hear testimony from the witnesses you reference AND even look up a handwriting expert  to analyze and or testify to the signature . 
 

You have already done ALL the hard work …in amassing your marital evidence ..IT IS A GRAND thing to know an Immigration Judge will look at everything with fresh eyes.

t Ir may take a while to get your merits hearing ( trial date ) but if you choose , life can go on as you see fit . Am soo glad everyone here is SO AMAZINGLY Fantastic. love reading all the comments 

 

 

 

 

[TBoneTX 45,258]

1 hour ago, Family said:

Consult attorneys w removal defense expertise ( A MUST)

Great recommendation.  I'm pretty positive that Sandra G. has helped VAWA applicants avoid removal.  Sure hope that she's receptive.