Intent to reestablish domicile

[Penguin_DE 0]

Hi there. My wife (US citizen) and I (British citizen) are getting ready to begin the green card process. We have lived together in the UK for three years. Looking ahead to the I-864, I'm a little concerned about the intent to reestablish domicile. We want to move to the US permanently, but she has been out of the US for years now (she lived in Germany for seven years prior) and doesn't have a US bank/residence/job.

 

She has filed taxes every year and obviously we intend to open a bank account, buy a property and look for jobs once we're there, but we were planning to wait until my green card is approved. Initially, we are planning to move in with her parents as a base while we set up our life there.

 

Should I be concerned? Is it worth opening a bank account (if even possible without residence), placing a bid on a property or trying to secure a job before the green card is approved, just so the NVC see that she really intends on reestablishing domicile?

 

Thank you for your help in advance.

[Crazy Cat 42,983]

I would present solid evidence of concrete steps taken and planned steps to show intent to re-locate to the US.  The only other option is for the US spouse to move there first to show domicile.  I don't recall London as being difficult in this area (as compared to Montreal, for example).  Good luck. 

[millefleur 5,048]

  On 1/5/2024 at 6:53 PM, Penguin_DE said:

She has filed taxes every year and obviously we intend to open a bank account, buy a property and look for jobs once we're there, but we were planning to wait until my green card is approved. Initially, we are planning to move in with her parents as a base while we set up our life there.

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I was in a similar boat (living abroad for many years) except I had maintained my state ID, bank accounts and mailing address in the US. This allowed me to vote absentee in the presidential election, and I submitted my voting record as evidence. Does she have a valid state ID or DL? Is she receiving any mail in the US, such as at her parents' address? Any letters received with her name on it and a US address can be used as evidence.

 

The moving in with parents is completely fine, I did that and had my mother write a letter that it was our temporary plan until we could secure our own lease. 

[pushbrk 13,297]

You have good answers about domicile.  Have you sorted out how your wife is going to qualify to sponsor you, without either of you having a job in the USA?  Joint sponsor? Liquid assets?

[Penguin_DE 0]

  On 1/5/2024 at 7:54 PM, millefleur said:

I was in a similar boat (living abroad for many years) except I had maintained my state ID, bank accounts and mailing address in the US. This allowed me to vote absentee in the presidential election, and I submitted my voting record as evidence. Does she have a valid state ID or DL? Is she receiving any mail in the US, such as at her parents' address? Any letters received with her name on it and a US address can be used as evidence.

 

The moving in with parents is completely fine, I did that and had my mother write a letter that it was our temporary plan until we could secure our own lease. 

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Thank you all for your answers. She has an unexpired DL but it's in her old name (before marriage) and attached to her parents' old address (they just moved). She does apparently have some letters with their old address.

 

  On 1/5/2024 at 10:30 PM, pushbrk said:

You have good answers about domicile.  Have you sorted out how your wife is going to qualify to sponsor you, without either of you having a job in the USA?  Joint sponsor? Liquid assets?

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Yes, we will use our savings as liquid assets. We have 3x poverty line.

[PGA 279]

  On 1/5/2024 at 10:39 PM, Penguin_DE said:

Thank you all for your answers. She has an unexpired DL but it's in her old name (before marriage) and attached to her parents' old address (they just moved). She does apparently have some letters with their old address.

 

Yes, we will use our savings as liquid assets. We have 3x poverty line.

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Just be cautious with this as the plan...the view on liquid assets seems to be hit or miss (some consider them, some don't and may require a joint sponsor regardless). 

[Crazy Cat 42,983]

***Hijack question and reply split out to new topic***

[Penguin_DE 0]

  On 1/6/2024 at 5:37 PM, PGA said:

Just be cautious with this as the plan...the view on liquid assets seems to be hit or miss (some consider them, some don't and may require a joint sponsor regardless). 

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Even though we have more than enough in cash savings? That seems a little harsh. We can probably find a joint sponsor if we need to but I was hoping to avoid that.

[PGA 279]

  On 1/15/2024 at 11:19 AM, Penguin_DE said:

Even though we have more than enough in cash savings? That seems a little harsh. We can probably find a joint sponsor if we need to but I was hoping to avoid that.

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Just suggesting you have a plan B, that's all. You can try as we did: we were way over the required amount for assets, all liquid as water, US based, and all documented very nicely. In the end, the CO wouldn't consider them and insisted on a joint sponsor anyway; not a huge deal since I had prepped my sister well in advance for that possibility. When all was said and done it added about 2 or 3 months to the process. 

 

Important to point out too, embassies seem to vary widely in their behind-the-scenes policies so what's true for one applicant in one city can be completely different for another applicant in another city.

 

 

Edited January 15, 2024 by PGA
added a thought

[Penguin_DE 0]

  On 1/15/2024 at 3:29 PM, PGA said:

Just suggesting you have a plan B, that's all. You can try as we did: we were way over the required amount for assets, all liquid as water, US based, and all documented very nicely. In the end, the CO wouldn't consider them and insisted on a joint sponsor anyway; not a huge deal since I had prepped my sister well in advance for that possibility. When all was said and done it added about 2 or 3 months to the process. 

 

Important to point out too, embassies seem to vary widely in their behind-the-scenes policies so what's true for one applicant in one city can be completely different for another applicant in another city.

 

 

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Ok, thanks for your help. That's good to know. We'll be applying through London - not sure what their record is on liquid assets? I'll prep someone just in case when the time comes.

[2024 I551 13]

This is an extremely hairy area. I have been on the wrong side of it in the past. I am talking about intent to re-establish domicile. According to the manual it is enough that the US petitioner agree to accompany the spousal beneficiary to the US after issuance of immigrant visa.

But in practice, in the middle east and Asia CO's routinely use this as a reason to create obstacles and can really require you to jump through the hoops, including requiring the US petitioner to relocate first to the US and establish domicile before the immigrant visa is issued to the beneficiary spouse.

The CO ultimately has huge discretion on whether or not to make an issue of this. So, the fact that you are in London, and further if you are white, you may have no issue whatsoever. The NVC, is not the problem, as any minimal evidence of US domicile will satisfy them. It is at the consular interview where this may or may not be raised as an issue by the consular officer. Interestingly even sufficient liquid assets/passive income and property in the US will prove to be not enough if the CO determines that the US petitioner is in fact living abroad and must re-establish ties to the US before a spousal immigrant visa is issued.

So, if you want to be on the safe side, I would have US financial accounts, W2s, tenancy contract/mortgage, utility bills, voter registration, and if you have kids, evidence of enrolment efforts in school.

But if you want to take your chances in London, frankly I wouldn't bet against a successful outcome. Worst case scenario they will issue you a 221g and ask you to provide above things.

[Boiler 46,569]

  On 1/15/2024 at 8:24 PM, 2024 I551 said:

This is an extremely hairy area. I have been on the wrong side of it in the past. I am talking about intent to re-establish domicile. According to the manual it is enough that the US petitioner agree to accompany the spousal beneficiary to the US after issuance of immigrant visa.

But in practice, in the middle east and Asia CO's routinely use this as a reason to create obstacles and can really require you to jump through the hoops, including requiring the US petitioner to relocate first to the US and establish domicile before the immigrant visa is issued to the beneficiary spouse.

The CO ultimately has huge discretion on whether or not to make an issue of this. So, the fact that you are in London, and further if you are white, you may have no issue whatsoever. The NVC, is not the problem, as any minimal evidence of US domicile will satisfy them. It is at the consular interview where this may or may not be raised as an issue by the consular officer. Interestingly even sufficient liquid assets/passive income and property in the US will prove to be not enough if the CO determines that the US petitioner is in fact living abroad and must re-establish ties to the US before a spousal immigrant visa is issued.

So, if you want to be on the safe side, I would have US financial accounts, W2s, tenancy contract/mortgage, utility bills, voter registration, and if you have kids, evidence of enrolment efforts in school.

But if you want to take your chances in London, frankly I wouldn't bet against a successful outcome. Worst case scenario they will issue you a 221g and ask you to provide above things.

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FYI Canada is by far the strictest on Domicile.

[Penguin_DE 0]

  On 1/15/2024 at 8:24 PM, 2024 I551 said:

This is an extremely hairy area. I have been on the wrong side of it in the past. I am talking about intent to re-establish domicile. According to the manual it is enough that the US petitioner agree to accompany the spousal beneficiary to the US after issuance of immigrant visa.

But in practice, in the middle east and Asia CO's routinely use this as a reason to create obstacles and can really require you to jump through the hoops, including requiring the US petitioner to relocate first to the US and establish domicile before the immigrant visa is issued to the beneficiary spouse.

The CO ultimately has huge discretion on whether or not to make an issue of this. So, the fact that you are in London, and further if you are white, you may have no issue whatsoever. The NVC, is not the problem, as any minimal evidence of US domicile will satisfy them. It is at the consular interview where this may or may not be raised as an issue by the consular officer. Interestingly even sufficient liquid assets/passive income and property in the US will prove to be not enough if the CO determines that the US petitioner is in fact living abroad and must re-establish ties to the US before a spousal immigrant visa is issued.

So, if you want to be on the safe side, I would have US financial accounts, W2s, tenancy contract/mortgage, utility bills, voter registration, and if you have kids, evidence of enrolment efforts in school.

But if you want to take your chances in London, frankly I wouldn't bet against a successful outcome. Worst case scenario they will issue you a 221g and ask you to provide above things.

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Thank you for your help - that's very helpful.

[2024 I551 13]

  On 1/15/2024 at 11:50 PM, Boiler said:

FYI Canada is by far the strictest on Domicile.

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Interesting. I didn't know that, but I can see why they would make this an issue in Canada. It appears they are allergic to people obtaining a green card with no serious intention to live in the US.

The fact is that a lot of people worldwide want a green card with no actual desire to live in the US, as it is a well-respected immigration document that makes travel worldwide easier and facilitates obtaining visas to other countries. The rest of the world doesn't really care if the green card holder actually lives in the US, but as soon as they see the document, they place that individual in the green channel for travel purposes. Instead of a one-month Schengen visa, they will be issued a 3-year multiple entry visa. UK will happily grant them a 10-year multiple entry visa and so on...... Of course, it would be far more ideal if one could travel on a tier A passport, but absent that a third world passport holder can really benefit from a green card in terms of travel ease. 

 

Of course, Congress could revamp the immigration system and make it less skewed towards family-based immigration, but they have failed to do so in the last few decades despite some debate. So, with family-based immigration being the easiest route to a green card there will always be people who want it, but still want to live abroad. Hence, the consular officers act as the policemen denying people an immigrant visa who do not seriously plan to immigrate. This indirectly helps the endless queue of people who are actually waiting in line to immigrate and move to the US.

FWIW, in adjustment of status (I-485) spousal applications, the domicile issue is non-existent.

[Deker1972 25]

  On 1/5/2024 at 10:39 PM, Penguin_DE said:

Thank you all for your answers. She has an unexpired DL but it's in her old name (before marriage) and attached to her parents' old address (they just moved). She does apparently have some letters with their old address.

 

Yes, we will use our savings as liquid assets. We have 3x poverty line.

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I'll let you know how we get on as my wife and I are in the same situation, my (USC) wife has been in the UK since last Jan (first on a fiance visa and now remains here on a spouse visa), she still has a US driving license and bank statements registered at her parents house (where she lived until moving here with me) and we're also using our savings and assets for the AoS as we have much more than 3 x the poverty line.

 

We applied last May so will hopefully hear something in around 3 months

 

We have my wifes parents as a 'plan b' just in case

Edited January 19, 2024 by Deker1972