Abstinence is a crock

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Abstinence is to sex what gun control is to guns. Oh how the liberals hate that connection.

[Dr_LHA 3]

My point is that no matter what you teach, some teenagers will have sex and get pregnant, even after they learn all the facts. I don't think that's a good thing of course. It's a form of ignorance to think they can do whatever they want and pay no consequences. They seem to sometimes not understand that part no matter what they learn about.

Well teenagers are idiots.

This is why sex ed needs to be comprehensive, covering not just all forms of contraception, but the concepts of responsibility and consequences as well. Abstinence can also be taught, but it simply cannot be a guiding principle of sex ed, like some want.

[chri'stina 190]

I'm not sure if the comment was relating to me, since I didn't write anywhere that I am against people telling teens how to avoids STDs or pregnancy. I just said I don't support teens having sex. And that no matter what you teach them some are going to do it anyway, whether it's religious or medical teaching.

(forgot to quote, in response to Caladan's last post)

Edited August 3, 2007 by stina&suj

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Always teach the consequences! Keep them has faraway from planned parenthood as possible.

[Dr_LHA 3]

Keep them has faraway from planned parenthood as possible.

Why?

Edited August 3, 2007 by Dr_LHA

[chri'stina 190]

I'm not sure if the comment was relating to me, since I didn't write anywhere that I am against people telling teens how to avoids STDs or pregnancy. I just said I don't support teens having sex. And that no matter what you teach them some are going to do it anyway, whether it's religious or medical teaching.

(forgot to quote, in response to Caladan's last post)

Just wanted to add that the reason I believe most teens do it anyway is not because they are not taught the consequences, but because they don't care at that moment. The invincibility factor is the biggest problem IMO.

[Fandango 1,439]

Who's advocating ignorance??? You're twisting what I'm saying.

You advocated not teaching kids about the pill:

Yes, kids should learn about condoms... not about birth control pills because they don't protect against STDs.

They're going to remain ignorant about the pill unless you teach them about it, surely?

The pill is not effective against STDs. And it's not just HIV either.

Condoms are the most effective, prevent most STDs AND protect against pregnancy. Why in the world would someone advocate the pill...which cannot make all these claims...over a condom is beyond me.

I'm not advocating the pill over the condom, I'm simply saying you have to teach about every form of birth control. You can't just leave out the ones you don't like. Personally I think the pill combined with condom use is the best method, condoms split, pills don't get taken, a combination of both reduces your changes of pregnancy and STDs.

You're ignoring what I'm saying to you for the sake of 'oh you promote ignorance!!!'

The pill is a half assed method. Hell, why don't we just teach kids the rhythym method? It's ignorant otherwise.

When I have kids, I will teach them abstinance as the best and preferred method. Until they are adult enough to understand the consequences of their actions with sex. But I will also teach them about condoms & having partners tested beforehand. I will not allow my daughter to be on any pill because it's 'more convenient' than a condom. It's not as good a method, so I don't advocate it.

NOT TO MENTION the health risks that come with the pill....blood clots for one. (aside from elevated risks for breast & cervical cancer, liver tumors, hypertension). D had an awfully bad DVT years ago where he was laid up for months & it was very touch and go for quite some time. Why would I willingly advocate a 'solution' for teen pregnancy & STDs that 1) doesn't work for half of the problem 2) is not as effective as a condom for pregnancy and 3)can put my child at risk for a blood clot...a problem she may or may not be predisposed to because of her father's history?

No, sir...DrLHA....I will not condone nor advocate bcp in young girls as opposed to promoting the usage of a condom.

Plus, pills put the girl in charge. How many teen pregnancies result because the guy just 'forgot' the condom and they were too busy and decided to take a risk?

The girl is just as responsible for saying 'no' if the guy 'forgot' the condom.

Nowadays, a teen pregnancy is not the worst outcome of teen sex. And that's a very sad state of affairs. Pills don't do anything to protect that.

Knowledge will put the girls (and boys) in charge. Not pills. Pills put them....and the boys...at risk of contracting a disease that can kill them. Pills aren't empowerment. Knowledge is.

[Caladan 19]

Teen pregnancy is the most likely outcome. It's not the worst, but the reality is that plenty of people manage to have sex outside of marriage and do not drop dead of AIDS. Which is why I find sex ed a little ridiculous as it's taught. They act like the options are run around and ###### the neighborhood or be a prayerful virgin.

The girl is responsible for saying 'no', but if you take a pair of horny teenagers and a forgotten condom, I'd think the girl's better off on the pill than off, assuming it works for her. No one is saying 'as opposed to' or 'instead of' a condom, just that pretending the pill doesn't exist isn't going to do teenagers any service.

[chri'stina 190]

There are lots of STDs that are much more common than AIDs and I can bet most teens who have had sex with various people have at least one. Then those get passed around even more and may be passed on to their future children. It's quite a cycle.

[mawilson 2,133]

Let them get pregnant. Pregnancy during the teenage years is probably their last

chance to have babies.

Once they realise how wonderful it is to have a career, money, travel around the world

and enjoy their lives without having to worry about noisy, messy little rugrats running around

the house and screaming until midnight, they will never consider it again.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Keep them has faraway from planned parenthood as possible.

Why?

Never mind.

[Fandango 1,439]

Teen pregnancy is the most likely outcome. It's not the worst, but the reality is that plenty of people manage to have sex outside of marriage and do not drop dead of AIDS. Which is why I find sex ed a little ridiculous as it's taught. They act like the options are run around and ###### the neighborhood or be a prayerful virgin.

The girl is responsible for saying 'no', but if you take a pair of horny teenagers and a forgotten condom, I'd think the girl's better off on the pill than off, assuming it works for her. No one is saying 'as opposed to' or 'instead of' a condom, just that pretending the pill doesn't exist isn't going to do teenagers any service.

what needs to be stressed is personal responsibility. So you forgot a condom and you're horny...oh well! Kids need to understand that there can be severe consequences to their actions...and immediate gratification without any regard to the situation is dangerous and reckless.

Are all kids dropping dead of AIDS? Of course not. Can it happen? Absolutely. And that fact alone should scare the sh!t out of all of us.

http://www.avert.org/std.htm

http://www.avert.org/usastata.htm

[Caladan 19]

There are lots of STDs that are much more common than AIDs and I can bet most teens who have had sex with various people have at least one. Then those get passed around even more and may be passed on to their future children. It's quite a cycle.

According to my friend who works in an inner city hospital, teen pregnancy is a lot more common than teen STDs.

Teen pregnancy is the most likely outcome. It's not the worst, but the reality is that plenty of people manage to have sex outside of marriage and do not drop dead of AIDS. Which is why I find sex ed a little ridiculous as it's taught. They act like the options are run around and ###### the neighborhood or be a prayerful virgin.

The girl is responsible for saying 'no', but if you take a pair of horny teenagers and a forgotten condom, I'd think the girl's better off on the pill than off, assuming it works for her. No one is saying 'as opposed to' or 'instead of' a condom, just that pretending the pill doesn't exist isn't going to do teenagers any service.

what needs to be stressed is personal responsibility. So you forgot a condom and you're horny...oh well! Kids need to understand that there can be severe consequences to their actions...and immediate gratification without any regard to the situation is dangerous and reckless.

Are all kids dropping dead of AIDS? Of course not. Can it happen? Absolutely. And that fact alone should scare the sh!t out of all of us.

http://www.avert.org/std.htm

http://www.avert.org/usastata.htm

I'd just rather not place a public health issue in the hands of a horny teenager. I don't get the argument here: they're too irresponsible to be trusted with the pill so we'll trust that they are responsible enough to delay immediate gratification?

[Fandango 1,439]

I'd just rather not place a public health issue in the hands of a horny teenager. I don't get the argument here: they're too irresponsible to be trusted with the pill so we'll trust that they are responsible enough to delay immediate gratification?

My problem with the pill has nothing to do with being 'too irresponsible' to be on them.

I've outlined my issues with the pill in great detail.

[Caladan 19]

You seem to be arguing that if we teach them about the pill that precludes teaching them about condoms. But that doesn't make any sense.