Abstinence is a crock

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Plain English seems to be escaping you at the moment.

Its an old thing we used to do on the playground. Kid would walk up to another and ask if he wants a hurts doughnut. The kid getting asked this question would be thinking "doughnut" hec yeah! "BAM" a slug in the arm would follow with "hurts dont it"

Its a kid thing. And is a very old play ground joke. Just cuz you dont understand it, doesnt mean Im not speaking plain english. It simply means your not from here. Which is no fault of yours of course.

Please keep this in mind when trying to understand me or anyone else.

Well - old boy. Wake me up in a few years when you've outgrown your childishness. Perhaps then we'll have something to talk about.

You have done an amazing job of making my point. Thank you son.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Plain English seems to be escaping you at the moment.

Its an old thing we used to do on the playground. Kid would walk up to another and ask if he wants a hurts doughnut. The kid getting asked this question would be thinking "doughnut" hec yeah! "BAM" a slug in the arm would follow with "hurts dont it"

Its a kid thing. And is a very old play ground joke. Just cuz you dont understand it, doesnt mean Im not speaking plain english. It simply means your not from here. Which is no fault of yours of course.

Please keep this in mind when trying to understand me or anyone else.

Well - old boy. Wake me up in a few years when you've outgrown your childishness. Perhaps then we'll have something to talk about.

You have done an amazing job of making my point. Thank you son.

What point was that exactly?

Did it have anything to do with you deviating from my on-topic post to make a personal jibe?

Care to comment on abstinence-only programmes?

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Plain English seems to be escaping you at the moment.

Its an old thing we used to do on the playground. Kid would walk up to another and ask if he wants a hurts doughnut. The kid getting asked this question would be thinking "doughnut" hec yeah! "BAM" a slug in the arm would follow with "hurts dont it"

Its a kid thing. And is a very old play ground joke. Just cuz you dont understand it, doesnt mean Im not speaking plain english. It simply means your not from here. Which is no fault of yours of course.

Please keep this in mind when trying to understand me or anyone else.

Well - old boy. Wake me up in a few years when you've outgrown your childishness. Perhaps then we'll have something to talk about.

You have done an amazing job of making my point. Thank you son.

What point was that exactly?

Did it have anything to do with you deviating from my on-topic post to make a personal jibe?

Care to comment on abstinence-only programmes?

Atempts at rewinding a subject is an exercise in futility.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Then I don't suppose you will mind:

Objections?

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Then I don't suppose you will mind:

Objections?

Agreed.

[Cassandra+Yuibi 0]

I think that Abstinence only education is disturbing (because of what it can lead to). My education included Abstinence only sex ed. Which really- was nothing. They showed us a lot of disgusting videos about "pre-marital sex gone wrong!!!" and other ridiculous things without teaching us anything about contraception & common sense.

The city I live has a high teen pregnancy and std rate but they like to turn a blind eye and insist that there is no other way to teach children about sex other than NOT to teach them about sex!!

I'm tired of sex being taboo. I wish that the US (especially) could accept that we cant force our children to be abstinent and that the best way to prevent diseases and pregnancy is to educate them. And educated person is much more likely to make the choice to have safe sex than someone whose parents and educators pretended sex didn't exist and told them to just not have it(!) instead of telling them how to safely have it.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I think that Abstinence only education is disturbing (because of what it can lead to). My education included Abstinence only sex ed. Which really- was nothing. They showed us a lot of disgusting videos about "pre-marital sex gone wrong!!!" and other ridiculous things without teaching us anything about contraception & common sense.

The city I live has a high teen pregnancy and std rate but they like to turn a blind eye and insist that there is no other way to teach children about sex other than NOT to teach them about sex!!

I'm tired of sex being taboo. I wish that the US (especially) could accept that we cant force our children to be abstinent and that the best way to prevent diseases and pregnancy is to educate them. And educated person is much more likely to make the choice to have safe sex than someone whose parents and educators pretended sex didn't exist and told them to just not have it(!) instead of telling them how to safely have it.

Agreed. Nothing wrong with expecting 'the best' (abstinence) while planning for 'the worst' (condoms).

Moreover - does anyone really think that comprehensive sex-ed is just about launching everything on kids in one go? A quick one hour lesson and you're sent home with a sheaf of leaflets and a handful of free condoms. Have to say... I doubt it.

[thetreble 19]

I feel like sex ed at school was a sort of joke at the beginning. No one paid attention and I was too young to be thinking about sex any ways. Starting sex ed at 12 or something, while may be seen as a "have to" by educators because there are kids having sex that young, most kids at that age aren't having sex. At 13, I had really just had my first real kiss and the thought of sex made me giggly and a little freaked out!!! So to be honest, I tuned out in sex ed because I felt it didn't apply to me.

By the time I hit highschool and got sex ed, which I thought was pretty good, I found it informative. My public school did not preach abstinence at all. The health teacher was there to educate on prevention methods and STDS and consequences. I still didn't know that many people having regular sex in highschool and most of my friends didn't have sex until college. But at the end of the day, teenagers will do what they do. Educating them is important but they don't understand consequences for the most part just yet. Also, it all depends on the individual. There are some teens who get it and some who don't or don't care. All I know is, sex education should be a part of your home life. My parents taught me values early on and how to grow up gradually, hitting each stage with the new maturity I found. The problem it seems is that kids are hitting the stages before they are maturing. (maybe that is why 12 year olds now look 18). I just think it is good to keep an open conversation with your kids about what is okay and what is not...what is best and what is not. Mom and dad can be more effective than some health class. Most of the kids I know who got pregnant in highschool came from single parent families and that parent was always working to support their family on their own. I'm not saying there is a direct correlation but just putting that thought out there.

Oh and LisaD- I read your posts and I do understand what you are saying but I don't agree. The pill has been my best friend for many reasons. It does more than just prevent pregnancy. Without it, I would have to be on vicodin on a monthly basis and no one wants that. It has had a positive benefit to my health and I couldn't live without it.

Edited August 7, 2007 by thetreble

[Dr_LHA 3]

I feel like sex ed at school was a sort of joke at the beginning. No one paid attention and I was too young to be thinking about sex any ways. Starting sex ed at 12 or something, while may be seen as a "have to" by educators because there are kids having sex that young, most kids at that age aren't having sex. At 13, I had really just had my first real kiss and the thought of sex made me giggly and a little freaked out!!! So to be honest, I tuned out in sex ed because I felt it didn't apply to me.

Given the number of 13 year old mothers in my home town, I don't think everyone felt the same as you at that age. Still everyone matures at a different speed eh?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Teen pregnancies are indeed a problem - but I think SE is only a part of the picture there. You also have family history, parental attitudes - and additionally, the level of general education of parents.

[thetreble 19]

Given the number of 13 year old mothers in my home town, I don't think everyone felt the same as you at that age. Still everyone matures at a different speed eh?

Understandable. But doesn't/didn't britain have one of the highest teen pregnancy rates in the developed world? I think in the UK it is more societal/historical than anything. Media is much more open and I have always gotten the impression that sex is much more widely acceptable in teens in the UK. Just my opinion though.

Also, I don't think I was abnormal or anything at 13 to not be thinking about sex all the time. There was still a lot I didn't understand, even if I was a smart kid. I don't know if any 13 year old is really raging to have sex. I really think it is something kids just fall into because they have a lot of time on their hands. I played all kinds of sports and choir and music lessons so I never really had time on my hands to lay around with boy-x and fiddle. Again, that is a parenting issue though.

Edited August 7, 2007 by thetreble

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

Given the number of 13 year old mothers in my home town, I don't think everyone felt the same as you at that age. Still everyone matures at a different speed eh?

Understandable. But doesn't/didn't britain have one of the highest teen pregnancy rates in the developed world? I think in the UK it is more societal/historical than anything. Media is much more open and I have always gotten the impression that sex is much more widely acceptable in teens in the UK. Just my opinion though.

The UK has the highest teenage pregnancy rate in Western Europe (not as high as US) and generally spotty sex ed in the schools compared to their European neighbors. The Netherlands has comprehensive sex ed from the age of 10 and has one of the lowest teen pregnancy rates in the world.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

The UK has the highest teenage pregnancy rate in Western Europe (not as high as US) and generally spotty sex ed in the schools compared to their European neighbors. The Netherlands has comprehensive sex ed from the age of 10 and has one of the lowest teen pregnancy rates in the world.

That can't be right. The abstinence only crowd will have you know that sex ed leads to sex and the lack of sex ed leads to a lack of sex.

In other words: Less sex ed = Less teen pregnancies (and STD's).

That would seem to be the equation they are marketing.

Edited August 7, 2007 by Mr. Big Dog

[no name 1]

Teen pregnancy rates rising in the UK

Limiting teenage pregnancies

Many health educators have argued that comprehensive sex education would effectively reduce the number of teenage pregnancies, although opponents argue that such education encourages more and earlier sexual activity.

In the UK, the teenage pregnancy strategy, which was run first by the Department of Health and is now based out of the Children, Young People and Families directorate in the Department for Education and Skills, works on several levels to reduce teenage pregnancy and increase the social inclusion of teenage mothers and their families by:

• joined up action, making sure branches of government and health and education services work together effectively;
  
• prevention of teenage pregnancy through better sex education and improving contraceptive and advice services for young people, involving young people in service design, supporting the parents of teenagers to talk to them about sex and relationships, and targeting high-risk groups;
  
• better support for teenage mothers, including help returning to education, advice and support, work with young fathers, better childcare and increasing the availability of supported housing.
  

The teenage pregnancy strategy has had mixed success. Although teenage pregnancies have fallen overall, they have not fallen consistently in every region, and in some areas they have increased. There are questions about whether the 2010 target of a 50% reduction on 1998 levels can be met.

In the United States the topic of sex education is the subject of much contentious debate. Some schools provide "abstinence-only" education and virginity pledges are increasingly popular. Most public schools offer "abstinence-plus" programs that support abstinence but also offer advice about contraception. A team of researchers and educators in California have published a list of "best practices" in the prevention of teen pregnancy, which includes, in addition to the previously mentioned concepts, working to "instill a belief in a successful future", male involvement in the prevention process, and designing interventions that are culturally relevant.^[40]

The Dutch approach to preventing teenage pregnancy has often been seen as a model by other countries. The curriculum focuses on values, attitudes, communication and negotiation skills, as well as biological aspects of reproduction. The media has encouraged open dialogue and the health-care system guarantees confidentiality and a non-judgmental approach.^[41]

In the developing world, programs of reproductive health aimed at teenagers are often small scale and not centrally coordinated, although some countries such as Indonesia and Sri Lanka have a systematic policy framework for teaching about sex within schools.^[11] Non-governmental agencies such as the International Planned Parenthood Federation provide contraceptive advice for young women worldwide. Laws against child marriage have reduced but not eliminated the practice. Improved female literacy and educational prospects have led to an increase in the age at first birth in areas such as Iran, Indonesia, and the Indian state of Kerala.

Education works!

Edited August 7, 2007 by devilette

[no name 1]

Understandable. But doesn't/didn't britain have one of the highest teen pregnancy rates in the developed world? I think in the UK it is more societal/historical than anything. Media is much more open and I have always gotten the impression that sex is much more widely acceptable in teens in the UK. Just my opinion though.

Have you spent any time in the UK or are you just saying this off the cuff? The US rate is still much higher than the UK.

I don't know if any 13 year old is really raging to have sex.

You must be joking. Have you spent ANY time watching TV lately? Or with any teenagers?