I have a proposition to help curb NIV overstays

[Timona 4,207]

The government should come up with a website of which NIV recipients HAVE to require 2 guarantors in the US that guarantees that they will not (1) abuse their NIVs (2) leave at the end of their stay period. These guarantors have to be USC or GC holders ONLY. 

 

Now, as a guarantor, before signing, you have to know the ramifications. If you're a GC holder and sign for someone, your GC life is on trial, and any future benefits such as ROC or N400 can be blocked/ denied because your folks abused their chances (IOs at field offices are able to see if the person you guaranteed left/ abused their NIV). If a USC, a fine of up to $30K.

 

The idea for guarantors will help the government as it'll make sure that these individuals leave and if they fail to leave, their guarantors report so that they're deported and as such, don't have negative effects on guarantors. Individuals leaving on timely manner so as not to affect guarantors life in US will help curb down overstays for NIVs.

 

So, this is how it works eg B-2. 

 

You already have a visa. You then go on this government website (cannot be done 48 hours within flight. HAS to be done between 96-48 hours before flight to US) and only fill EXACT name and email address for a guarantor. The guarantor (USC/ GC) gets notified, and they click the link. The link opens and has disclaimers that I just mentioned above i.e you guarantee that the person won't violate NIV. At this point, you have your FIRST opinion to decline or accept. You decline, that's it, BUT asks for a reason why. You put your reason and decline. You accept, it proceeds to below. 

 

In the link, guarantors only put their SSN and all their other information is prefilled. You update other stuff eg marital status, address etc, basically things that may have changed. At this point, this is your LAST chance to decline. There's a decline button and proceed button. You decline, put a reason, end it. You proceed, you move to the next step. 

 

In this step, the form gets submitted and a PDF is available for you to download and print or emailed for the same reason. We're going to a notary next. 

 

So, you take the PDF, which has your scannable barcode as well as the confirmation number to a notary. The notary will take a picture of: (1) your face (2) proof of eligibility for guarantor - GC, PP Bio Page, USC BC (3) Address - DL/ ID (4) Signed and notarized PDF...To note, steps 1-4 above by the notary can only be done in real time i.e you cannot upload pre-taken pictures. So, how will the notary do it? They scan your barcode on the PDF that you brought and it opens up on their phone. They have 4 places to fill. They click the first, their camera is enabled and they take your face picture. It gets uploaded and gets a green ✅️. Notary then clicks second place and camera opens again and takes picture of say, your DL and uploads. Repeats the process till their 4 steps are done then they click SUBMIT on their end. 

 

Why real time upload? To avoid fraud where someone will steal their relatives information and pay a scrupulous notary to upload. 

 

I think this process will help curb down overtays on B-2, student visa etc. But more so B-2 & those that come and marry as soon as they pass the back of CBP. 

 

As a guarantor you have to know violation of NIV eg AOS because someone met someone and fell in love right away and knew they couldn't live apart etc shenanigans. Yes marry, but go home.

 

So, no guarantors, no entry. And for each entry, you have to fill that guarantor form aagain. So, yes, obtaining a B-2 at embassy is the first step BUT getting a guarantor prior to flight is the second step. 

 

I think when the government does this, those relatives encouraging people to come and overstay will stop. As also those relatives that harbor or provide roof to overstays.

[Boiler 45,585]

The problem is that many people who visit the US do not know anyone here, I certainly did not and I think most of the people who I knew and have met would not.

If you are coming for 2 weeks of sun and sand how would you. I remember bumping into a guy I used to work with in Las Vegas, he was there with some friends, he knew I was here but not where and a total coincidence.

 

And it would never be enforced anyway.

Edited November 12, 2023 by Boiler

[Timona 4,207]

@Boiler I missed to cover that. 

 

In that case, your guarantor will be the sherrif at your first entry location. You pay $100 processing fee. You go through your journey and on your way out, regardless of exit location, report the closest sheriff for it to be updated and to CBP at the airport. 

 

Nobody will wanna mess around with skipping leaving the country yet their information/ bounty hunter is the sherrif. 

[powerpuff 6,715]

*** Title was edited at the request of the OP ***

Edited November 12, 2023 by powerpuff

[OldUser 6,773]

Nobody would ever sign up for this and nobody would come on B1/B2 with super rare exceptions. Tourism and business would have huge losses.

US would become North Korea.

 

Why not just make all visitors wear GPS bracelets so ICE could locate them at any time? I hope you understand how ridiculos this is.

 

Edited November 13, 2023 by OldUser

[Timona 4,207]

Not all ideas are pristine. We start somewhere and figure it as we go.

 

How much money do tourists bring to US? I don't think it's that great. Most stay with family and friends anyway to cut costs as US is expensive AND I'm 100% sure that 70% of the tourist come to vist family and friends  and it's the family and friends that they travel with across the states. I don't see all of them going to Disney parks. So, I don't see US losing money. Additionally, majority of people who come on B-2 refuse to leave. So, it's not like they're touring and splashing money. As much as you say this idea is ridiculous, people who actually come to tour will come to tour and spend. This will not deter them. They're genuine people. Isn't this pretty much the reason why we have visa interviews?? To try and weed non-genuine people? Otherwise, everyone will be here in US. So, look at this as an extension of that. 

 

Ankle monitors? I don't see it as such. They're countries which require you to actually register and give address of where you'll be staying e.g Kenya, Colombia. People still visit those places. I visit those places.  It's peak tourism season in Kenya right now. Flights are full & expensive yet they have these measures. When I visit such countries, I put that information, do my touring and leave. Tourism is booming. So, again, if you're a genuine tourist, this isn't a problem. This is a problem to those who suddenly fell in love and don't want leave. 

 

Lastly, I think it's costing US more money to actually provide social services to overstays. So, NO, US is actually on the negative end.

 

So @OldUser, what's your idea in tackling overtays?

 

P.S: IIRC, Japan actually requires tourist to register with a touring company before being allowed into the country. The touring company makes sure you do your touring and leave. So, these measures are there. I have not seen USC complain about them in Japan and other countries. Why can't we enact such here. 

Edited November 13, 2023 by Timona

[OldUser 6,773]

@Timona international visitors are estimated to bring USA 279 billion dollars by 2027.

 

https://www.commerce.gov/news/fact-sheets/2022/06/fact-sheet-2022-national-travel-and-tourism-strategy

 

In 2022, it's estimated that foreign visitors brought $135.2 billions into US economy.

 

These numbers are comparable to some countries' GDPs.

 

[Boiler 45,585]

I saw about $15b a month which is sort of similar to what is spent by those in the US travelling abroad. And maybe 2 million people a month entering?

 

Now I am in Colorado but most people I come across are not visiting friends and family, obviously we get a lot of ski business in the winter.

[GEOntificator 281]

1 hour ago, Timona said:

Not all ideas are pristine. We start somewhere and figure it as we go.

 

How much money do tourists bring to US? I don't think it's that great. Most stay with family and friends anyway to cut costs as US is expensive AND I'm 100% sure that 70% of the tourist come to vist family and friends  and it's the family and friends that they travel with across the states. I don't see all of them going to Disney parks. So, I don't see US losing money. Additionally, majority of people who come on B-2 refuse to leave. So, it's not like they're touring and splashing money. As much as you say this idea is ridiculous, people who actually come to tour will come to tour and spend. This will not deter them. They're genuine people. Isn't this pretty much the reason why we have visa interviews?? To try and weed non-genuine people? Otherwise, everyone will be here in US. So, look at this as an extension of that. 

 

Ankle monitors? I don't see it as such. They're countries which require you to actually register and give address of where you'll be staying e.g Kenya, Colombia. People still visit those places. I visit those places.  It's peak tourism season in Kenya right now. Flights are full & expensive yet they have these measures. When I visit such countries, I put that information, do my touring and leave. Tourism is booming. So, again, if you're a genuine tourist, this isn't a problem. This is a problem to those who suddenly fell in love and don't want leave. 

 

Lastly, I think it's costing US more money to actually provide social services to overstays. So, NO, US is actually on the negative end.

 

So @OldUser, what's your idea in tackling overtays?

 

P.S: IIRC, Japan actually requires tourist to register with a touring company before being allowed into the country. The touring company makes sure you do your touring and leave. So, these measures are there. I have not seen USC complain about them in Japan and other countries. Why can't we enact such here. 

Tourism bring insane amount of money in. US is a superpower where the world's rich want to vacation and take pictures. If I remember it right from my previous research the annual number from tourism was in low hundred billions. To put that in perspective my home country's annual budget is roughly 25-30bn...

[TBoneTX 45,394]

4 hours ago, Timona said:

you take the PDF, which has your scannable barcode as well as the confirmation number to a notary. The notary will take a picture of: (1) your face (2) proof of eligibility for guarantor - GC, PP Bio Page, USC BC (3) Address - DL/ ID (4) Signed and notarized PDF...To note, steps 1-4 above by the notary can only be done in real time i.e you cannot upload pre-taken pictures. So, how will the notary do it? They scan your barcode on the PDF that you brought and it opens up on their phone. They have 4 places to fill. They click the first, their camera is enabled and they take your face picture. It gets uploaded and gets a green ✅️. Notary then clicks second place and camera opens again and takes picture of say, your DL and uploads. Repeats the process till their 4 steps are done then they click SUBMIT on their end. 

 

Why real time upload? To avoid fraud where someone will steal their relatives information and pay a scrupulous notary to upload. 

1.  Notaries Public in many -- if not most, or all -- states are prohibited from collecting and retaining personal information beyond that which is necessary to identify a signer.  State laws governing notarial acts vary widely even beyond this.

 

2.  Notaries notarize signatures, not documents.

 

3.  Notary Errors & Omissions insurance surely would not cover challenges to the official acts in this proposal.

 

4.  No law mandates that a notary must own, carry, or use a phone.

[Timona 4,207]

@Boilerare those internal tourists (from US) or external? 

@TBoneTX those photos don't get stored. That's the reason for real time uplaod. For the rest of your points, I'm not sure. 

 

The system can be tested. Bit I doubt if those numbers will differ any greatly @OldUser & @kvito28

 

So how best do you guys suggest US curbs overtays?

[OldUser 6,773]

Just now, Timona said:

@Boilerare those internal tourists (from US) or external? 

 

International visitors to the US

[Boiler 45,585]

Just now, OldUser said:

International visitors to the US

Correct

 

It is very easy for someone to stay, work etc, make it less so.

[SalishSea 17,874]

An easier solution would be to eliminate the option to adjust status from NIV.  Want to come to the US, meet someone and marry?  Great, but you have to go home afterwards and be petitioned for an immigrant visa.

 

How do they do it in Britain, @Boiler?  Aren't there special visas required for foreigners to marry there?

[SalishSea 17,874]

3 hours ago, Timona said:

Japan actually requires tourist to register with a touring company before being allowed into the country. The touring company makes sure you do your touring and leave

Is this newish?  I went to Japan some years ago (2008ish), and it wasn't required then.