Approved N-400 denied later. Request for hearing (N-336)

[Alexmat1 9]

Hello All, I filed for N-400 and was approved. I got a letter to attend Oath ceremony two of which I had to postpone because I had to remain a citizen of my country while some financial processing was still going on in my home country (it was delayed because of covid backlog) so I request USCIS for a few more months. I mailed USCIS request for postponement ahead of the dates.

I was then scheduled for another Oath which I had to postpone because of health reasons (I required bed rest as advised by doctor for two months.). I send a request for postponement for this as well along with doctors note.

 

USCIS then mailed me a letter saying they are opening a motion to reopen my N-400 approval with an intent to deny. Reason was if three oaths are abandoned then its treated as the resident has no intention to naturalize and is treated as receiving a derogatory information after N-400 approval, and treated as such. I had 15 days to respond to it, and I responded to it submitting proofs of all the responses I had sent to USCIS requesting for postponement. There was no response from USCIS for several months while I waited to hear from them and when I called the customer service for an update they had none. After two weeks of that call I received a decision on my response denying the N-400. Reasons were as above. I can file for a Request for hearing (N-336) if I can overcome the presumption for denial (which is lack of intent to naturalize) in 30 days or 33 days (if decision was mailed to me). I was travelling and saw this in mail last week when I come back. 

Since it was mailed out I have 33 days and I am preparing the paperwork to file the hearing. I have the following queries if someone who has knowledge on this can help:

1) Because I am so close to the 33rd day I will be able to mail it out on 32 or 33rd day. Is it considered timely filed if I have the USPS seal with date on it (plan to sent this certified mail) or should it actually reach USCIS office and be received before the 33rd day ?

2) Do I count the days including the date on decision letter. It is dated Oct 3 2023. So does day 1 start from Oct 3 or from Oct 4 for calculating the 33 days. 

3) This hearing can take upto 180 days (as per rule) so realistically I am thinking it could be between 4-6 months out. If I get denied then I have to reapply N-400 again and wait out another 15 months. So I was planning to file N-336 now and next week file for N-400 (reapplication) so that even if the hearing doesnt help reverse the decision, I would only have to wait another 9 more months or so for decision on second N-400. I am prepared to pay fees for both, but I wanted to know if filing if this strategy will hold my N-400 in queue (until N-336 is decided) in which case I might as well only file N-336 now. Or filing both can automatically eliminate N-336 (if USCIS thinks reapplying N-400 means I am no longer interested in hearing). 

4) I plan to overcome the presumption that USCIS has (that I have no intent to naturalize) by submitting the responses showing the delay in a process in my home country (because of covid issues) and how I had to remain a citizen of that country till its done. That processing is now over so I can provide proof of that to show there is nothing stopping me from naturalizing. However if USCIS goes by how the law is then the office at hearing can uphold their decision. I am hoping for the discretion of officer and if I can convince him. If anyone has gone through this particular denial please let me know what other points could I use.

Much thanks. I know this is something made worse because of my special circumstances. I have to spend double the money and energy to straighten this now. 

[Boiler 45,731]

They go by the date they receive it bit otherwise it would seem simpler to file again.

[OldUser 6,976]

File again. Make sure to file when you're actually ready to become a US citizen. Fighting for reconcideration may be longer and more expensive.

Edited November 3, 2023 by OldUser

[mytruelove18 608]

2 hours ago, Alexmat1 said:

Hello All, I filed for N-400 and was approved. I got a letter to attend Oath ceremony two of which I had to postpone because I had to remain a citizen of my country while some financial processing was still going on in my home country (it was delayed because of covid backlog) so I request USCIS for a few more months. I mailed USCIS request for postponement ahead of the dates.

I was then scheduled for another Oath which I had to postpone because of health reasons (I required bed rest as advised by doctor for two months.). I send a request for postponement for this as well along with doctors note.

 

USCIS then mailed me a letter saying they are opening a motion to reopen my N-400 approval with an intent to deny. Reason was if three oaths are abandoned then its treated as the resident has no intention to naturalize and is treated as receiving a derogatory information after N-400 approval, and treated as such. I had 15 days to respond to it, and I responded to it submitting proofs of all the responses I had sent to USCIS requesting for postponement. There was no response from USCIS for several months while I waited to hear from them and when I called the customer service for an update they had none. After two weeks of that call I received a decision on my response denying the N-400. Reasons were as above. I can file for a Request for hearing (N-336) if I can overcome the presumption for denial (which is lack of intent to naturalize) in 30 days or 33 days (if decision was mailed to me). I was travelling and saw this in mail last week when I come back. 

Since it was mailed out I have 33 days and I am preparing the paperwork to file the hearing. I have the following queries if someone who has knowledge on this can help:

1) Because I am so close to the 33rd day I will be able to mail it out on 32 or 33rd day. Is it considered timely filed if I have the USPS seal with date on it (plan to sent this certified mail) or should it actually reach USCIS office and be received before the 33rd day ?

2) Do I count the days including the date on decision letter. It is dated Oct 3 2023. So does day 1 start from Oct 3 or from Oct 4 for calculating the 33 days. 

3) This hearing can take upto 180 days (as per rule) so realistically I am thinking it could be between 4-6 months out. If I get denied then I have to reapply N-400 again and wait out another 15 months. So I was planning to file N-336 now and next week file for N-400 (reapplication) so that even if the hearing doesnt help reverse the decision, I would only have to wait another 9 more months or so for decision on second N-400. I am prepared to pay fees for both, but I wanted to know if filing if this strategy will hold my N-400 in queue (until N-336 is decided) in which case I might as well only file N-336 now. Or filing both can automatically eliminate N-336 (if USCIS thinks reapplying N-400 means I am no longer interested in hearing). 

4) I plan to overcome the presumption that USCIS has (that I have no intent to naturalize) by submitting the responses showing the delay in a process in my home country (because of covid issues) and how I had to remain a citizen of that country till its done. That processing is now over so I can provide proof of that to show there is nothing stopping me from naturalizing. However if USCIS goes by how the law is then the office at hearing can uphold their decision. I am hoping for the discretion of officer and if I can convince him. If anyone has gone through this particular denial please let me know what other points could I use.

Much thanks. I know this is something made worse because of my special circumstances. I have to spend double the money and energy to straighten this now. 

No make sense pay 700 for a hearing that may be denied, better apply for n-400 and be ready this time

[Timona 4,208]

Taking the oath didn't mean your mother country was on the ground to snitch on you. I mean, officials from your mother country aren't at the oath to pick up your PP. You have to go to the embassy later. 

 

You could have taken the oath, kept the certificate, applied for US PP, then abandoned your other. 

 

Even people who renounce, prior to renunciation, have 2 citizenship. You cannot go renounce country A because you're sure you're going to get B. That's not how it works. You obtain B first, then go renounce A. I'm not sure what you were upto..

[Timona 4,208]

To make it simple, you have to hold atleast 2 PP prior to renouncing.

 

Your plan is to renounce one before getting the other. What guarantees you that you'll get the other? Infact, had you succeeded with your plan, you'd be stateless right now, since USCIS has decided to deny your N400. 

 

You could have just gone, taken oath, kept N400 certificate at home. Shot yourself here

[Crazy Cat 41,982]

Another vote to re-file when actually ready to naturalize.

[Alexmat1 9]

4 hours ago, Timona said:

To make it simple, you have to hold atleast 2 PP prior to renouncing.

 

Your plan is to renounce one before getting the other. What guarantees you that you'll get the other? Infact, had you succeeded with your plan, you'd be stateless right now, since USCIS has decided to deny your N400. 

 

You could have just gone, taken oath, kept N400 certificate at home. Shot yourself here

I never renounced my PP from my homecountry. But on taking the Oath, by default I lose the citizenship of homecountry. Even if I dont tell them and keep the PP, it wont work because when I travel out of US and reach home country there is no visa or GC for me to show. That would mean I am a citizen by default and immigration there can confiscate my PP. This is why I cant take the Oath till I have processed things back home.

[Marieke H 2,520]

From your post history, it looks like you had your interview in April 2022, which is 1.5 years ago. I think you have demonstrated that you did not intend to naturalize when you filed your petition. Whatever "processing" you had to take care of should have been done before even applying for US citizenship.

 

I agree with others; just refile when you are sure that you are ready.

[Stuff2447 32]

It will be easier and fast to just re-apply.  You had three chances to take the oath and you declined three times.  

[OldUser 6,976]

1 hour ago, Alexmat1 said:

I never renounced my PP from my homecountry. But on taking the Oath, by default I lose the citizenship of homecountry. Even if I dont tell them and keep the PP, it wont work because when I travel out of US and reach home country there is no visa or GC for me to show. That would mean I am a citizen by default and immigration there can confiscate my PP. This is why I cant take the Oath till I have processed things back home.

So what happens if you lose citizenship of your home country? Can't you visit on US passport? Worst case you'd apply for visa if US passport doesn't grant visa free access to your home country. Is losing some tax benefit / social benefit back at home country the reason why you postponed naturalizing in the US? It's really not a good reason, as US isn't responsible for your financial wellbeing overseas. I doubt this would be taken into consideration when N-336 is reviewed.

[Alexmat1 9]

10 hours ago, OldUser said:

So what happens if you lose citizenship of your home country? Can't you visit on US passport? Worst case you'd apply for visa if US passport doesn't grant visa free access to your home country. Is losing some tax benefit / social benefit back at home country the reason why you postponed naturalizing in the US? It's really not a good reason, as US isn't responsible for your financial wellbeing overseas. I doubt this would be taken into consideration when N-336 is reviewed.

It depends on what is considered a good reason. Its not a tax benefit but something like 401k for over 10 years that I will lose if I dont withdraw it while I am a citizen. If USCIS thinks that is a good reason or not would be the main point. For an individual it is a major thing as its life saving.

[Alexmat1 9]

16 hours ago, Timona said:

Taking the oath didn't mean your mother country was on the ground to snitch on you. I mean, officials from your mother country aren't at the oath to pick up your PP. You have to go to the embassy later. 

 

You could have taken the oath, kept the certificate, applied for US PP, then abandoned your other. 

 

Even people who renounce, prior to renunciation, have 2 citizenship. You cannot go renounce country A because you're sure you're going to get B. That's not how it works. You obtain B first, then go renounce A. I'm not sure what you were upto..

That was not what I had asked. Question is not about PP or how to renounce it but that I had to postpone oath because I had to get few things processed in my home country which required me to be a national for it to happen.

[Pinkrlion 2,724]

But you actually did not want to naturalize. You said you did not want to due to financial issues in your country. You should have just waited until all those things were done to file. 

[Alexmat1 9]

8 hours ago, Pinkrlion said:

But you actually did not want to naturalize. You said you did not want to due to financial issues in your country. You should have just waited until all those things were done to file. 

Please read what I posed initially carefully. I never said there were financial issues in my country but there is a backlog thats related to country (if you meant financial instability in that country thats not what I meant). In normal times it should have completed in few months but that overshot. I also said I didnt want to naturalize but had to hold it till the above process is done. Hope I didnt confuse.