What is the best "evidence" to bring?

[rakkaus 0]

First off: thanks EVERYONE for having this forum! I've learned SO much about the K1 process already... I looked through the VJ website and found a general answer to this question, but I'd like to ask for a few more details.

My fiancee would like to come to America to visit me and meet my family while our K1 application is in process. We have no intention of abusing the tourist visa to marry, nor of overstaying; she simply wants to come for a little while (9 days) and then return to Finland.

I understand the idea behind the question, when INS asks incoming 'tourists' if they are engaged or married to US citizens, and I've seen the advice here at VJ about "K1 applicant visiting US" -- but has anyone here had personal experience with it? Does country of origin matter? (i.e., does it help that there is very little illegal immigration from Finland?) What is the "strongest" evidence we can supply INS to support our case that she isn't planning anything improper? Is this an area where it could help for me to have an immigration lawyer -- i.e., a number she can call if something goes wrong?

Honestly, I hadn't thought this was too big a deal, so we went ahead and bought a plane ticket -- then an immigration lawyer told me about a client whose French fiancee had been turned around at immigration and spent the night in jail to boot! Please tell me this isn't a common occurrence...

Thanks in advance!

[Boiler 45,519]

I travelled.

She should take evidence of her ties to Finland, Job, Property etc etc requiring her to return home if asked.

She has no right of legal representation at the POE.

[truffles 2]

I visited my fiance during the K1 process....i got a letter from my employer advising i had a permanent job and it stated when i was due to return to work. Return flight tickets train tickets as when ireturn i still had a train journey to get back to my home city.

I dont know if the country has any impact - i would suggest anything that indicates the return is planned. I wasnt actually asked for them but i was advised to have that information on hand in case. Good luck

[~Nini~ 2]

I understand the idea behind the question, when INS asks incoming 'tourists' if they are engaged or married to US citizens, and I've seen the advice here at VJ about "K1 applicant visiting US" -- but has anyone here had personal experience with it? Does country of origin matter? (i.e., does it help that there is very little illegal immigration from Finland?) What is the "strongest" evidence we can supply INS to support our case that she isn't planning anything improper? Is this an area where it could help for me to have an immigration lawyer -- i.e., a number she can call if something goes wrong?

The best evidence that your fiancee can provide at the POE is ties to the home country and intent to return home at the end of the visit. You can include a letter from her employer, or an apartment lease in her name, or evidence of a return ticket home (or all three!). While I can't say that the country of origin matters, several people have mentioned that they were questioned whether they filed for a K1.

Definitely not necessary to contact an immigration lawyer solely for this purpose, but you should expect that if the POE officer does suspect even for the slightest that your fiancee does intend to stay, she will get turned away at the POE.

I know personally I traveled during the process, asked about my fiance, and was only asked for proof of my return ticket even though I also brought a letter from my employer and proof of attending school the next semester.

Good luck!

Edited August 1, 2007 by Nini & Bee

[rakkaus 0]

I travelled.

She should take evidence of her ties to Finland, Job, Property etc etc requiring her to return home if asked.

She has no right of legal representation at the POE.

Thanks for the reply. To clarify the lawyer question: I realize there isn't a "right" to have one, but I was curious as to whether it's possible for someone who runs into trouble at the POE to ask for assistance. I mean, can she at least give them my cell number? Her English is excellent, but obviously the situation might be a bit intimidating for her as someone who is not yet American...

To me, a filed K-1 application seems like evidence that a person isn't trying to sneak in: why blow the whole thing just to get married a little earlier? But maybe that's just me; I don't work for INS (I guess you noticed!)

Truffles: good point on the return tickets! I guess I was taking this for granted...

Here's what comes to mind, not an exhaustive list, but what is fairly easy for us to get:

- return tickets

- letter from her university explaining that she is one semester from graduation

- papers describing her employment

She has an apartment, but it's owned by her family, so I don't think this would necessarily help. Same for the car -- they share it since it's more of a luxury than a necessity in metro Helsinki. Um... she'll be bringing her dog when she comes over for good; do you think INS cares?

I'm thinking the letter from the university is the strongest evidence right now, eh?

[rakkaus 0]

> While I can't say that the country of origin matters, several people have mentioned that they were questioned whether

> they filed for a K1.

Dumb question time: I assume it's better if you DO file for a K1 before coming here, since that shows that you're trying to follow the rules? (waiting until she was here had crossed my mind, since it's easier to fill out the paperwork together, but I'll gladly pay for the FedEx if it will help)

[Boiler 45,519]

> While I can't say that the country of origin matters, several people have mentioned that they were questioned whether

> they filed for a K1.

Dumb question time: I assume it's better if you DO file for a K1 before coming here, since that shows that you're trying to follow the rules? (waiting until she was here had crossed my mind, since it's easier to fill out the paperwork together, but I'll gladly pay for the FedEx if it will help)

Nope, they then know she has immigrant intent, eventually.

You gave to have a return ticket, a requirement of the VWP.

[rakkaus 0]

> While I can't say that the country of origin matters, several people have mentioned that they were questioned whether

> they filed for a K1.

Dumb question time: I assume it's better if you DO file for a K1 before coming here, since that shows that you're trying to follow the rules? (waiting until she was here had crossed my mind, since it's easier to fill out the paperwork together, but I'll gladly pay for the FedEx if it will help)

Nope, they then know she has immigrant intent, eventually.

You gave to have a return ticket, a requirement of the VWP.

But don't they know that she has immigrant intent anyway, simply from asking her why she is visiting the US?

[Boiler 45,519]

> While I can't say that the country of origin matters, several people have mentioned that they were questioned whether

> they filed for a K1.

Dumb question time: I assume it's better if you DO file for a K1 before coming here, since that shows that you're trying to follow the rules? (waiting until she was here had crossed my mind, since it's easier to fill out the paperwork together, but I'll gladly pay for the FedEx if it will help)

Nope, they then know she has immigrant intent, eventually.

You gave to have a return ticket, a requirement of the VWP.

But don't they know that she has immigrant intent anyway, simply from asking her why she is visiting the US?

Friend/Boyfriend vs Fiancee

[essjay 0]

I travelled.

She should take evidence of her ties to Finland, Job, Property etc etc requiring her to return home if asked.

She has no right of legal representation at the POE.

Thanks for the reply. To clarify the lawyer question: I realize there isn't a "right" to have one, but I was curious as to whether it's possible for someone who runs into trouble at the POE to ask for assistance. I mean, can she at least give them my cell number? Her English is excellent, but obviously the situation might be a bit intimidating for her as someone who is not yet American...

To me, a filed K-1 application seems like evidence that a person isn't trying to sneak in: why blow the whole thing just to get married a little earlier? But maybe that's just me; I don't work for INS (I guess you noticed!)

Truffles: good point on the return tickets! I guess I was taking this for granted...

Here's what comes to mind, not an exhaustive list, but what is fairly easy for us to get:

- return tickets

- letter from her university explaining that she is one semester from graduation

- papers describing her employment

She has an apartment, but it's owned by her family, so I don't think this would necessarily help. Same for the car -- they share it since it's more of a luxury than a necessity in metro Helsinki. Um... she'll be bringing her dog when she comes over for good; do you think INS cares?

I'm thinking the letter from the university is the strongest evidence right now, eh?

I was told that after filing for a visa, I was more likely than not to be refused entry as they assume immigrant intent unless you can prove otherwise. I was also told I could try if I could provide very strong evidence of ties to the UK, but that if they had any doubts, not only would they turn me back, but they would not let me call anyone or speak to anyone before being put on a plane again. I would not be able to speak to a lawyer, and more than that, even though I would be travelling with my husband, I wouldn't even be able to speak to him as they would be interviewing me on my own.

All said and done, that just scared me too much to even try....

[mandp 0]

I assume it's better if you DO file for a K1 before coming here, since that shows that you're trying to follow the rules? (waiting until she was here had crossed my mind, since it's easier to fill out the paperwork together, but I'll gladly pay for the FedEx if it will help)

Nope, they then know she has immigrant intent, eventually.

This is exactly what happened with my fiancee, who is from Estonia. We arranged for the interview, I paid the $100 fee, she went in, and they promptly denied her a visitor's visa, which quite upset her. I went in that afternoon when the embassy re-opened from its (oh-so-typical-of-government) two-hour lunch break in which no one can go in and nothing gets done, and inquired why she had been denied. The impression I got from my 15 minute conversation with the man who conducted the interview was that he denied her the visitor's visa because they knew we were already planning to file for K1--that she "already has a boyfriend in the US", so there was known intent to stay, albeit later on. The man was also apparently not impressed that her job didnt pay as much as his did, this also hurt. No sympathy at all, only a cold rejection, and no way to talk my way out of it.

The U.S. embassy in Tallinn (Estonia) is known for being really harsh on these matters. I must say that I didn't really believe what people said about it myself until I had personal experience with it. I expect Finland is a lot better/easier, because it was never a part of the USSR, and has few Russians.

[English Muffin 59]

If you're from a country that requires a B1/2 visa to visit the US there's a good chance that it will be denied.

However, if you're from a country that can use the Visa Waiver I think your chances are good providing you have evidence of your ties at home. There are a couple of old threads around where people have posted their experiences and if memory serves me correctly not a single person entering on the VWP was turned back. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

Gillian

[rakkaus 0]

I was told that after filing for a visa, I was more likely than not to be refused entry as they assume immigrant intent unless you can prove otherwise. I was also told I could try if I could provide very strong evidence of ties to the UK, but that if they had any doubts, not only would they turn me back, but they would not let me call anyone or speak to anyone before being put on a plane again. I would not be able to speak to a lawyer, and more than that, even though I would be travelling with my husband, I wouldn't even be able to speak to him as they would be interviewing me on my own.

All said and done, that just scared me too much to even try....

Wow! Yeah, I don't blame you...

Does this mean I should NOT file K1 beforehand, as Boiler suggested? I still don't quite get the logic behind that (I mean, we're going to be honest with INS if they ask her status) but if waiting on the K1 for a few weeks lets us visit, then it's probably worth it. Or is INS just concerned that we're engaged, regardless of K1 app status?

Thanks again!

EDIT:

English Muffin -- very interesting. Finland is (thank God!) part of the VWP, so she won't need a visa to get on the airplane. I love your 'handle' btw!

mandp -- Eek! In a way, though, I guess that agrees with what English Muffin is saying.

Edited August 2, 2007 by rakkaus

[English Muffin 59]

Rakkaus, here's the thread I was referring to. Lots of people got in on the VWP no problem.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...96&hl=visit

[Boiler 45,519]

I was told that after filing for a visa, I was more likely than not to be refused entry as they assume immigrant intent unless you can prove otherwise. I was also told I could try if I could provide very strong evidence of ties to the UK, but that if they had any doubts, not only would they turn me back, but they would not let me call anyone or speak to anyone before being put on a plane again. I would not be able to speak to a lawyer, and more than that, even though I would be travelling with my husband, I wouldn't even be able to speak to him as they would be interviewing me on my own.

All said and done, that just scared me too much to even try....

Wow! Yeah, I don't blame you...

Does this mean I should NOT file K1 beforehand, as Boiler suggested? I still don't quite get the logic behind that (I mean, we're going to be honest with INS if they ask her status) but if waiting on the K1 for a few weeks lets us visit, then it's probably worth it. Or is INS just concerned that we're engaged, regardless of K1 app status?

Thanks again!

EDIT:

English Muffin -- very interesting. Finland is (thank God!) part of the VWP, so she won't need a visa to get on the airplane. I love your 'handle' btw!

mandp -- Eek! In a way, though, I guess that agrees with what English Muffin is saying.

I did not say that.

I travelled when my K1 was in process, many do.