NYTimes travel question with bad advice

[jackiegringa 419]

This is a advice column about all things travel. This Chinese scientist was denied boarding in a cruise ship because they didn't take his AP as a valid document, even though the company policy accepts them.

 

In the middle of the article there's this jewel:

 

“Even a green card holder is not guaranteed re-entry into the United States,” said Stephen Yale-Loehr, who teaches immigration law at Cornell Law School.

 

I know not to be true but if someone had the quick link to debunk this, I'd like to correct them because this is bad info that can hurt many people. If this is not the appropriate forums, please move this topic mods!

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/13/travel/cruise-boarding-immigration.html

[Boiler 45,466]

It is behind a paywall, I think subscribers have so many gift links.

 

I think it is the other way around, a Port of Entry has fairly wide discretion to refuse entry to non US Citizens and Permanent Residents. If there is a particular link to say US Citizens and Permanent Residents cannot be refused entry that is not something I have come across.

 

Lawyers say weird stuff all the time, well that is just stuff I know about, I assume the same applies to areas I do not or am not sure about.

[JeanneAdil 6,491]

This all depends on where the ship will stop

and if cruise is "closed loop"

 

Although the following is true

Legal U.S. Residents (Non-Citizens)

Legal permanent residents of the U.S. must have a valid passport from their country of citizenship and a valid Alien Registration Card (Green Card) to enter or re-enter the U.S.

 

But  If ship will dock (say at Aruba which is Dutch)  a Chinese citizen would need a tourist visa so  it matters where the ship,  itself ,  is going.

 

If the person needs a tourist visa and does  not have one,  the ship can not let him board,

 

Even is a person is a naturalized citizen some countires require a tourist visa to travel there 

example:  born in Cuba -needs visa for Brazil   even with a US passport

[jackiegringa 419]

Gift link at end (it's long)

 

The issue was denied boarding because he wouldn't be allowed entry back into the states once returned from the cruise. But the lawyer said that as a blank statement, for any situation which is baffling.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/13/travel/cruise-boarding-immigration.html?unlocked_article_code=EzhAF62mcAenbWHH3QcuUKIrEflhI5c6-w-pEH7ZqcqYLhJcEFZuB6HkMAnHID6jiSsKRDWKLrA2Sh0V4aeab1xkfHx5RHV6xKUmnYjL00WNwqDaFsr35km2WfYnaAmHtBMX16ZqTMD-kjqZ8kSmXpOycHgm4qYUO5jZVeVKJSxzTUu9A-ZafLlSpGlPyUZ8PFIkK9UP5BezKOy-mxmr-Q-KHCtTZKytZzCcA2KUq5ale6EPSIA-xQ6euD9zOFZfPRuSkz-FZGYqD9QHb8JBorAtzp9ni3dByWf4oAwG8d-GsdFfLQHcZx2-Cj1lJcfkyrkLgOZB8NbhXwKjvg1RSeZdKlg&smid=url-share

[Boiler 45,466]

I think it has been said you can enter the US with your GC, now no way would I recommend it, for most situation how would it work, how would you get on a plane? Maybe at the land borders but strikes me as a really silly thing to try.

 

I have never been on a Cruise like this, how does it work, do you have to go through local Immigration at every stop? 

[Boiler 45,466]

Thanks, my question would be what does Bahama require?

[Boiler 45,466]

I think I  saw a case on here where someone had travelled after filing to adjust and when they were away their adjustment was denied so their AP was cancelled.

[Boiler 45,466]

I am always a little bit suspicious where a Journo is involved, often they change things to meet their agenda. This comment was amusing.

 

 

 

Quote

 

Northpamet

Sarasota, FLOct. 18

If the US is going to have such complex laws, it needs to have a way to make them work smoothly. Anything less puts this country's basic competence in a bad light. This cruise company is on my permanent "Avoid!!" list. If it is going to review people's documents, they have a responsibility to know what they are looking at. This is shameful. BY THE WAY -- I had a friend who arrived in the US to renew her Green Card. Apparently, that is not allowed as a reason to visit the US. She was put back on a plane to Iran. If you're going to have laws, make sure you can make them work. What happened to these people is disgraceful.

 

 

My guess is that they were pressured into signing an I 407.  Obviously she was not put back on a plane to Iran, there are no direct flights.

[mam521 2,060]

1 hour ago, jackiegringa said:

Even a green card holder is not guaranteed re-entry into the United States,” said Stephen Yale-Loehr, who teaches immigration law at Cornell Law School.

 

I know not to be true but if someone had the quick link to debunk this, I'd like to correct them because this is bad info that can hurt many people. If this is not the appropriate forums, please move this topic mods!

Why is it untrue?  CBP can essentially do whatever they want.  Can they take your greencard?  No, not unless you sign it away.  But when they scan your card and look at what's on the screen, they have many options.  They can see how long you've been out and whether or not you've keep your in "valid" status.  If they don't like something, they can give you a NTA or they can send you to ICE if they think you've committed a crime or spent too much time in high crime areas.  They can make your life a headache. 

 

You're still "just" a permanent resident and while you're afforded more rights than a visa holder, you're still not a citizen.  Even naturalized citizens could, under extreme circumstances, have their acquired citizenship rights stripped.  

[garebear397 69]

1 hour ago, mam521 said:

Why is it untrue?  CBP can essentially do whatever they want.  Can they take your greencard?  No, not unless you sign it away.  But when they scan your card and look at what's on the screen, they have many options.  They can see how long you've been out and whether or not you've keep your in "valid" status.  If they don't like something, they can give you a NTA or they can send you to ICE if they think you've committed a crime or spent too much time in high crime areas.  They can make your life a headache. 

 

You're still "just" a permanent resident and while you're afforded more rights than a visa holder, you're still not a citizen.  Even naturalized citizens could, under extreme circumstances, have their acquired citizenship rights stripped.  

Yeah I was going to comment the same -- it seems correct the quote, you are not guaranteed re-entry as a Green Card holder. Obviously the vast majority of the times it is not a problem, but it would also be wrong to say it is guaranteed. Like you said even the some-what "innocent" case of staying out of the country more than a year without filing a re-entry permit, could result in not entering the country. 

[Boiler 45,466]

9 minutes ago, garebear397 said:

Yeah I was going to comment the same -- it seems correct the quote, you are not guaranteed re-entry as a Green Card holder. Obviously the vast majority of the times it is not a problem, but it would also be wrong to say it is guaranteed. Like you said even the some-what "innocent" case of staying out of the country more than a year without filing a re-entry permit, could result in not entering the country. 

Only if they volunteer otherwise it would be down to your friendly IJ

[SalishSea 17,819]

It’s always been the party line here that only USCs are guaranteed entry.

 

There could be situations in which a GC holder was inadmissible, due to events that transpired overseas, etc.

Edited October 19, 2023 by SalishSea

[Boiler 45,466]

1 hour ago, SalishSea said:

It’s always been the party line here that only USCs are guaranteed entry.

 

There could be situations in which a GC holder was inadmissible, due to events that transpired overseas, etc.

I am not sure who controls the Party Line, not me.

[jackiegringa 419]

Appreciate all that contributed to the discussion. Without any complicating factors, someone with a valid green card or extension letter should be allowed to entry the US by the CBP.

 

Of course if there are crimes involved or what have you that's not a given, but talking about specific cases more than the general advice that LRPs might be denied entry. Even on the example cited earlier on this thread, even if for some very particular reason the LRP is sent to ICE detention...they are still allow entry in the US and not told to take the next flight back to where they came from.

 

Andcin the news article in focus, the poor guy had all documents and wasn't denied entry by any US authority but a misinformed cruise ship attendant where no other issue but the AP was brought up - the visa for other countries was not the point.

 

Anyways, just one more thing to keep in mind while not being a citizen.