Muslims support suicide bombings.... a little less than before

[mybackpages 0]

Moroccans will tell you they were among the first nations (if not the first) to formally recognize the newly independent United States. so there is a long history of friendhsip there. Most moroccans I met over the last 2 years seriously condemn Bush and american policy, but they still can separate Americans from the policy of their government.

The Barbary pirates operated out of Morocco (and others) and 'recognized' the US. As a big juicy source of money and hostages to be sold as slaves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_pirates

oh yeah..there is no denying this diplomatic recognition was about money and politics. But when is that not true of any country? relationships change, leaders change, but ties are ties.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Moroccans will tell you they were among the first nations (if not the first) to formally recognize the newly independent United States. so there is a long history of friendhsip there. Most moroccans I met over the last 2 years seriously condemn Bush and american policy, but they still can separate Americans from the policy of their government.

The Barbary pirates operated out of Morocco (and others) and 'recognized' the US. As a big juicy source of money and hostages to be sold as slaves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_pirates

oh yeah..there is no denying this diplomatic recognition was about money and politics. But when is that not true of any country? relationships change, leaders change, but ties are ties.

The Barbary pirates were terrorists.

"According to Robert Davis between 1 million and 1.25 million Europeans were captured by pirates and sold as slaves between the 16th and 17th century. "

[Caladan 19]

So was Sir Francis Drake. Early example of state-sponsored terrorism. We just called them 'privateers' back then.

[mybackpages 0]

So was Sir Francis Drake. Early example of state-sponsored terrorism. We just called them 'privateers' back then.

the politics of language is so facinating.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Moroccans will tell you they were among the first nations (if not the first) to formally recognize the newly independent United States. so there is a long history of friendhsip there. Most moroccans I met over the last 2 years seriously condemn Bush and american policy, but they still can separate Americans from the policy of their government.

The Barbary pirates operated out of Morocco (and others) and 'recognized' the US. As a big juicy source of money and hostages to be sold as slaves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_pirates

oh yeah..there is no denying this diplomatic recognition was about money and politics. But when is that not true of any country? relationships change, leaders change, but ties are ties.

The Barbary pirates were terrorists.

"According to Robert Davis between 1 million and 1.25 million Europeans were captured by pirates and sold as slaves between the 16th and 17th century. "

In the 16th and 17th Centuries I think you'll find that the European powers were doing their bit for slavery around that time as well. Spain, for example maintained slave galleys around that time too, and England sold off a bunch of rebellious citizens (who took part in the Monmouth Rebellion) as slaves to work on the tobacco and cotton plantations in Barbados.

I don't think we should relativise history - merely to justify present day prejudices. Going back to the 16th-17th century IMO doesn't add much to our understanding of these issues today. Much the same as condemning the Romans as 'barbaric and cruel' - when the expectation of the times (i.e. life was cheap) was wholly different.

Edited August 1, 2007 by Number 6

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Moroccans will tell you they were among the first nations (if not the first) to formally recognize the newly independent United States. so there is a long history of friendhsip there. Most moroccans I met over the last 2 years seriously condemn Bush and american policy, but they still can separate Americans from the policy of their government.

The Barbary pirates operated out of Morocco (and others) and 'recognized' the US. As a big juicy source of money and hostages to be sold as slaves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_pirates

oh yeah..there is no denying this diplomatic recognition was about money and politics. But when is that not true of any country? relationships change, leaders change, but ties are ties.

The Barbary pirates were terrorists.

"According to Robert Davis between 1 million and 1.25 million Europeans were captured by pirates and sold as slaves between the 16th and 17th century. "

In the 16th and 17th Centuries I think you'll find that the European powers were doing their bit for slavery around that time as well. Spain, for example maintained slave galleys around that time too, and England sold off a bunch of rebellious citizens (who took part in the Monmouth Rebellion) as slaves to work on the tobacco and cotton plantations in Barbados.

Nobody's hands were clean. But people act like it. Not me though.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Moroccans will tell you they were among the first nations (if not the first) to formally recognize the newly independent United States. so there is a long history of friendhsip there. Most moroccans I met over the last 2 years seriously condemn Bush and american policy, but they still can separate Americans from the policy of their government.

The Barbary pirates operated out of Morocco (and others) and 'recognized' the US. As a big juicy source of money and hostages to be sold as slaves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_pirates

oh yeah..there is no denying this diplomatic recognition was about money and politics. But when is that not true of any country? relationships change, leaders change, but ties are ties.

The Barbary pirates were terrorists.

"According to Robert Davis between 1 million and 1.25 million Europeans were captured by pirates and sold as slaves between the 16th and 17th century. "

In the 16th and 17th Centuries I think you'll find that the European powers were doing their bit for slavery around that time as well. Spain, for example maintained slave galleys around that time too, and England sold off a bunch of rebellious citizens (who took part in the Monmouth Rebellion) as slaves to work on the tobacco and cotton plantations in Barbados.

Nobody's hands were clean. But people act like it. Not me though.

But what point are you making by bringing up the Barbary pirates. Makes as much sense as if I were to bring up the Catholic persecution during the Reformation.

[Scott & Lai 12]

Moroccans will tell you they were among the first nations (if not the first) to formally recognize the newly independent United States. so there is a long history of friendhsip there. Most moroccans I met over the last 2 years seriously condemn Bush and american policy, but they still can separate Americans from the policy of their government.

The Barbary pirates operated out of Morocco (and others) and 'recognized' the US. As a big juicy source of money and hostages to be sold as slaves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_pirates

oh yeah..there is no denying this diplomatic recognition was about money and politics. But when is that not true of any country? relationships change, leaders change, but ties are ties.

The Barbary pirates were terrorists.

"According to Robert Davis between 1 million and 1.25 million Europeans were captured by pirates and sold as slaves between the 16th and 17th century. "

The reasons the pirates gave for attacking Americans were not simply about money and politics. From the same article:

That it was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners, and that every Musselman [Muslim] who should be slain in Battle was sure to go to Paradise

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

But what point are you making by bringing up the Barbary pirates. Makes as much sense as if I were to bring up the Catholic persecution during the Reformation.

Someone brought up Morocco as a shining example of a country always loving the US from the beginning. They've harbored terrorists from the beginning too. People have selective memories.

[almaty 19]

Moroccans will tell you they were among the first nations (if not the first) to formally recognize the newly independent United States. so there is a long history of friendhsip there. Most moroccans I met over the last 2 years seriously condemn Bush and american policy, but they still can separate Americans from the policy of their government.

The Barbary pirates operated out of Morocco (and others) and 'recognized' the US. As a big juicy source of money and hostages to be sold as slaves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_pirates

oh yeah..there is no denying this diplomatic recognition was about money and politics. But when is that not true of any country? relationships change, leaders change, but ties are ties.

The Barbary pirates were terrorists.

"According to Robert Davis between 1 million and 1.25 million Europeans were captured by pirates and sold as slaves between the 16th and 17th century. "

and brother rich, i assume were the dutch, English etc..who kidnapped or bought africans and sold them as slaves in the New World...and Spain, who made slaves out of the Aztecs..to work in their silver mines..terrorists too?

[Caladan 19]

I dunno, Lucky, sounds to me more like you're saying that terrorism is just the way of life for those crazy Berbers. Not much of a connection with present-day Morocco or the problems with radical Islam.

But this seems strange, given that I doubt you had a problem with Bush praising Great Britain's friendship even though we won our independence by warring them and their privateers. (Is it not in the nature of Englishmen, then, to oppose democracy and support terrorism?) And you'd probably rightfully ignore an argument that said that Americans were natural slave owners based on Thomas Jefferson.

Come on. The past is relevant, but this is a grade school 'those people are evil Muslim pirates' argument.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

But what point are you making by bringing up the Barbary pirates. Makes as much sense as if I were to bring up the Catholic persecution during the Reformation.

Someone brought up Morocco as a shining example of a country always loving the US from the beginning. They've harbored terrorists from the beginning too. People have selective memories.

You mean that country like every other has a checkered history. Say it isn't so...

I'm greatly uneasy by the way that you're using that history in the context of present-day politics

On the original point that was made - its not actually wrong. The Moroccan-American Treaty of Friendship is one of the longest enduring treaties in US history.

Edited August 1, 2007 by Number 6

[SteveLaura 0]

Is it not in the nature of Englishmen, then, to oppose democracy and support terrorism?

Hey, that was supposed to be a secret! Who's been blabbing to the Canadians..?

[mybackpages 0]

But what point are you making by bringing up the Barbary pirates. Makes as much sense as if I were to bring up the Catholic persecution during the Reformation.

Someone brought up Morocco as a shining example of a country always loving the US from the beginning. They've harbored terrorists from the beginning too. People have selective memories.

I never said Morocco loved the US from the begining. I only said there were ties between the government that go back to the beginning and Moroccans today like to recognize this fact. Hell, I never even said Morocco loves the the US at all.

[bhajishah 4]

Maybe we should do the logical thing and worry about China, and what idea sharing russia, N Korea and the like are doing.

you mean they flew the planes into the twin towers?

Well all this keeps us distracted from the real threat .. which is all made in China nowadays.