Indonesian Fiancé, No legal marriage or divorce from previous religious marriage [merged threads]

[Mandarin86 0]

I'm in the process of filling out the I-129F for me and my Fiancé.

 

However there are serveral questions and concerns I have.  

My Fiancé' comes from a very poor background and village upbringing.  She has no official birth certificate as just born in the home.  She was also married through nikah siri which is not legally recognized and is somewhat common in Indonesia for Muslims.  She is divorced but since nikah siri is only religious Islamic marriage, and not legally recognized she has no marriage certificate or divorce certificate.  How should we answer the question of her being divorced, since there is no official record by the government in Indonesia.  

[Verrou 1,962]

In Indonesia nikah Siri doesn’t consider legal marriage. I wont put that nikah Siri as her first marriage. Indonesian wedding need both religious + civil marriage to be consider legal. 
 

What kind of ID she has ? Does she has KTP (Kartu tanda penduduk) ?

[SalishSea 17,803]

13 minutes ago, Verrou said:

In Indonesia nikah Siri doesn’t consider legal marriage. I wont put that nikah Siri as her first marriage. Indonesian wedding need both religious + civil marriage to be consider legal. 
 

What kind of ID she has ? Does she has KTP (Kartu tanda penduduk) ?

But to deliberately omit the info seems very risky.

[Verrou 1,962]

5 hours ago, SalishSea said:

But to deliberately omit the info seems very risky.

It’s the same with fake nigerian marriage for the purposes of getting tourist visa. If the fiancee said she was married, how she will get the divorce decree since she never really legally married. No government agency will give her that divorce decree since the “marriage” never occurred in the name of law 

 

in indonesia that nikah siri usually something that they did because they can’t legally get married but want to be “married” so they didn’t commit sin ( I know it’s weird concept but that’s literally what it is ) 

[carmel34 3,620]

7 hours ago, Mandarin86 said:

She is divorced but since nikah siri is only religious Islamic marriage, and not legally recognized she has no marriage certificate or divorce certificate.

How did she get divorced religiously?  If there was an Islamic marriage, what was done to formalize the divorce, if anything?  Any documentation of the Islamic marriage?  Of the divorce?

[Mike E 11,739]

7 hours ago, Mandarin86 said:

 

She has no official birth certificate as just born in the home

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/Visa-Reciprocity-and-Civil-Documents-by-Country/Indonesia.html

 

Birth Certificates

Available. A birth certificate (Akte Kelahiran) may be obtained from the Civil Registry office (Dinas Kependudukan and Catatan Sipil) at the place within whose jurisdiction the birth took place. This certificate is available  upon request throughout Indonesia.

 

No alternatives are listed. So she needs to get her birth certificate. 

7 hours ago, Mandarin86 said:

 

  She was also married through nikah siri

From same link:

Marriage Certificates

Available. A marriage certificate (Akte Perkawinan or Surat Nikah) is issued by the following offices for the following population groups: 1) Moslem - the Kantor Urusan Agama (KUA - Office of Religious Affairs)

 

So she should get her Akte Perkawinan or Surat Nikah)

7 hours ago, Mandarin86 said:

 

She is divorced  

From the same link

 

Divorce Certificates

Available. Moslems of all nationalities may obtain a divorce decree (Surat Talak) from the Kantor Urusan Agama (KUA - Office of Religious Affairs) within whose jurisdiction the divorce (talak) took place.

 

So she should get her divorce  decree (Surat Talak).

[Verrou 1,962]

2 hours ago, Mike E said:

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/Visa-Reciprocity-and-Civil-Documents-by-Country/Indonesia.html

 

Birth Certificates

Available. A birth certificate (Akte Kelahiran) may be obtained from the Civil Registry office (Dinas Kependudukan and Catatan Sipil) at the place within whose jurisdiction the birth took place. This certificate is available  upon request throughout Indonesia.

 

No alternatives are listed. So she needs to get her birth certificate. 

 

This one doable. many many Indonesian got their birth certificate many2 years after they were born because parents didnt care back in the day. i know someone finally got indonesian birth certificate when she's 21 
From same link:

Marriage Certificates

Available. A marriage certificate (Akte Perkawinan or Surat Nikah) is issued by the following offices for the following population groups: 1) Moslem - the Kantor Urusan Agama (KUA - Office of Religious Affairs)

 

So she should get her Akte Perkawinan or Surat Nikah)

cant get akta pernikahan or surat nikah since the marriage is not legal. there's no paperwork

 

From the same link

 

2 hours ago, Mike E said:

Divorce Certificates

Available. Moslems of all nationalities may obtain a divorce decree (Surat Talak) from the Kantor Urusan Agama (KUA - Office of Religious Affairs) within whose jurisdiction the divorce (talak) took place.

 

So she should get her divorce  decree (Surat Talak).

cant get divorce decree since there's no marriage certificate to begin with. most "nikah siri" just disolve it just end, pack your bag and that's the end

 

 

[Mike E 11,739]

9 minutes ago, Verrou said:

cant get divorce decree since there's no marriage certificate to begin with. most "nikah siri" just disolve it just end, pack your bag and that's the end

State Department web site does not mention a deadline  to get Akte Perkawinan or Surat Nikah. The State Department does not mention a nikah siri. 
 

Let’s say OP was married say 50 years ago with a nikah siri to a U.S. citizen who wanted to petition OP. How would OP get an Akte Perkawinan or Surat Nikah?

Edited September 22, 2023 by Mike E

[Verrou 1,962]

38 minutes ago, Mike E said:

State Department web site does not mention a deadline  to get Akte Perkawinan or Surat Nikah. The State Department does not mention a nikah siri. 

state department doesnt mention a nikah siri because nikah siri doesnt require marriage certtificate aka akte perkawinan or surat nikah and the "officiant" its not even real officiant.  nikah siri  it's not legal in the eye of indonesia government

 

Let’s say OP was married say 50 years ago with a nikah siri to a U.S. citizen who wanted to petition OP. How would OP get an Akte Perkawinan or Surat Nikah?

i cant answer here because the answer will be againts VJ ToS.  i dont want to get banned 

 

but i know for sure, it's common practice that a lot indonesian did nikah siri with US/euro/other countries citizen  in indonesia.  That US/euro/other countries citizen  wont petition OP because there's reason they cant legalize their nikah siri.

 

for example  ( this is just example and not by means is OP past) : that US ( or any other foreign countries including indonesia ) citizen is not free to marry ( means still legally married to somebody else in the US). while OP parents still insist for them to get marry so they arent a "sinner" and wont be shame in public ( common in small villages in indonesia) .... hence nikah siri. 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Verrou

[Mandarin86 0]

Thank you for the answers.  Yes their are no documents and the reason for the divorce is a sad story.  Her first husband hid that he had a first wife, and she was the 2nd wife.  When she found out she just divorce and end it like one of the other posters mentioned, they say lets end and it's over.  We are doing our due diligence and just making sure there is no record anywhere but she is pretty confident that their is no document of it.  

 

As far as the birth certificate, that sounds like good news.  Even if they don't have record of her original birth certificate, they may be able to create her one?  Both her parents are deceased though, and she only has siblings. 

 

thanks for the answers, I really appreciate it.

[Verrou 1,962]

20 minutes ago, Mandarin86 said:

Even if they don't have record of her original birth certificate, they may be able to create her one?  Both her parents are deceased though, and she only has siblings. 

 

 

i asked ( on earlier post) what kind ID that she has right now? any kind of government ID. she must have something

[Mandarin86 0]

1 hour ago, Verrou said:

i asked ( on earlier post) what kind ID that she has right now? any kind of government ID. she must have something

She will have to get a New ID when she is back in the country.  Why do you ask?

[manyfudge 285]

28 minutes ago, Mandarin86 said:

will have to get a New ID when she is back in the country

If you met her outside Indonesia, how did she get a passport without a birth certificate?

[Mike E 11,739]

2 hours ago, Mandarin86 said:

Yes their are no documents and the reason for the divorce is a sad story.  Her first husband hid that he had a first wife, and she was the 2nd wife. 

 

Did her husband and first wife have either a Akte Perkawinan or Surat Nikah?

[Boiler 45,449]

K1 would seem to be a bad option