Editor fired after publication of Islam cartoons

[tom&tata 2]

The withdrawing of ambassadors is idiotic, but only because it serves to degrade the image of Islam. A dignified protest highlighting of the masses of moderate Muslims living happy lives in Europe and shaming the newspaper for such racism would have done so much. One would think Gandhi, Martin Luther King jr., and Joseph Welch would have shown the world how to get the West to back down.

Maybe some people are taking the lead from Vietnam war.

[Fandango 1,439]

if a danish newspaper had mocked the holocaust in a comic strip - and then a series of other european nations followed - Israel would be throwing a temper tantrum.

there's a difference between cartman kidding around about someone being a 'damn jew' - muslims get lambasted through the media all the time - sh!t - just turn on fox news - we're their favorite subject.

however, there are certain lines you just don't cross.......ofcourse you can - but be prepared for the consequences - such as people demonstrating, complaining, etc.

Demonstrate, complain...fine...masked gunmen? cmon

Edited February 3, 2006 by LisaD

[Fandango 1,439]

Also, I find it wildly ironic that the Muslim community is so up in arms over cartoons that make them look like fanatics...yet they react like fanatics.

I get the whole 'sacred' business...but like someone else said here....the holocaust HAS been made fun of...Christianity has been mocked....I'm sure there's a long list of people who have had their most sacred beliefs mocked...

Aside from religion...I hold my flag sacred. It offends me to my core to see people burning it. America should pull out of any country whose people show such disrespect....wow, that'd be kinda neat, huh?

What if Americans took the streets to kidnap anyone from the country who shows the disrespect? No, that'd be crazy. Yet the whole world is forced to pussyfoot around the Muslim community? I'm sorry, no. I do think the cartoon was wrong, and offensive...but unfortunately, that's life....the overreaction here is just so beyond OTT

Edited February 3, 2006 by LisaD

[46]

The withdrawing of ambassadors is idiotic, but only because it serves to degrade the image of Islam. A dignified protest highlighting of the masses of moderate Muslims living happy lives in Europe and shaming the newspaper for such racism would have done so much. One would think Gandhi, Martin Luther King jr., and Joseph Welch would have shown the world how to get the West to back down.

Maybe some people are taking the lead from Vietnam war.

Maybe, but I hope not. A nation takes a huge risk when it tries to intimidate America - especially with Republicans controlling the legislative and executive branches.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I think you misunderstood my point. I am saying that you CAN joke/question/deny just about anything involving the Jewish people, and it is tolerated...EXCEPT the Holocaust. This is what I meant by "It is the Holocaust which is considered sacred."

Is there humour to be found in the holocaust I wonder? I'm not so sure.

[Chuckles 0]

I support the freedom of one to declare oneself an idiot - a freedom you have exercised.

Your debate is acceptable. However, your attempt to make a personal insult is out of order.

No, your inferred holocaust denial and anti-semitism are out of order. This is a dispute between the secular but mostly Christian nations of Europe and the Muslim world. To insert a jab at Israel and Jews deserves ridicule.

It's maddening to watch moderate Muslims become subject of such racism from the West, yet allow the extreme elements to do their best to validate these views. You will always make a more effective argument if you moderate your rhetoric, stay on topic, and ground your points in reality.

recalling your ambassador in protest is not [stupid].

It's not just stupid, it's idiotic. Newspapers can't be told what to print, not by the ambassador, the president, or anyone else.

PWNED!!

Not even you, El Presidente

Sadly, you are incorrect. Hate speech laws do tell newspapers what (not) to print in most Western nations. The threat of libel suits also restricts, but only in a civil manner.

The withdrawing of ambassadors is idiotic, but only because it serves to degrade the image of Islam. A dignified protest highlighting of the masses of moderate Muslims living happy lives in Europe and shaming the newspaper for such racism would have done so much. One would think Gandhi, Martin Luther King jr., and Joseph Welch would have shown the world how to get the West to back down.

This message makes me want to construct a large Mohommad idol, put it on a stick, then parade around with a shirt that says "KEEP YOUR RELIGION TO YOURSEFL AND LEAVE ME ALONE" printed on it. The jews and the christians have the same 'laws' about idols but you don't see them having a cow. Seriously, the people condemning and calling for killings need to get out of the 15th centry and get with the rest of us.

[Fischkoepfin 1]

I was at a bar last night talking about the cartoons and some other issues with two friends (one a Ghanese-German, the other a Turkish-German). We realized during our conversation that the problem is not the portrayal of Mohammed in the papers, but the timing of the whole thing.

Many Europeans are in severe identity crisis, but not because of the Islamist threat but because of the increasing reach of the European Union into their lives. As a result, there are new waves of nationalism (the flag waving/chest beating kind). Consequently, many Europeans have grown more xenophobic, such as the Danes who have always taken great pride in their national identity. Add to that the whole "war on terrorism"-rhetoric and you will see that the equation Muslim=terrorist goes quite well with the equation Muslim=foreigner.

Quite a few European Muslims, who have lived here for several generations and who are citizens of their respective countries, are quite exasperated at the xenophobic reactions fueled by the anti-terrorist hate rhetoric. Now imagine that in the already tense situation someone publishes these cartoons. It's not that they are wrong as such, but when there is already a climate of hate and xenophobia, it's adding insult to injury.

P.S.: Denying the Holocaust is the same thing because it is hurtful to the people who actually experienced it. Keep in mind that not all victims of the Holocaust were Jewish, but that there was also a large number of homosexuals, mentally disabled, political opponents, and various Eastern European nationals, etc who died in the camps. Regardless of what you think about the state of Israel, the Holocaust is not something to off-handedly deny without showing disregard for humanity.

[Fischkoepfin 1]

Addendum to my last post:

The appropriation of the Holocaust as a justification for the slaughter of Palestinians by the state of Israel is in my view also a form of Holocaust denial. If you portray yourself as a victim of genocide and then engage in genocide, it shows that you have not learned from your own victimization. I have wondered for a long time why Palestinians have not politicized this hypocrisy in their favor and instead fall for the rhetoric of Holocaust deniers which in effect disbands the state of Israel from this ethical conundrum.

[Chuckles 0]

Addendum to my last post:

The appropriation of the Holocaust as a justification for the slaughter of Palestinians by the state of Israel is in my view also a form of Holocaust denial. If you portray yourself as a victim of genocide and then engage in genocide, it shows that you have not learned from your own victimization. I have wondered for a long time why Palestinians have not politicized this hypocrisy in their favor and instead fall for the rhetoric of Holocaust deniers which in effect disbands the state of Israel from this ethical conundrum.

Why are we comparing the slaughter of millions of REAL people to the characture of a historic religous personality? The cartoons are not killing anyone. Apples and oranges, etc etc

[Fischkoepfin 1]

Addendum to my last post:

The appropriation of the Holocaust as a justification for the slaughter of Palestinians by the state of Israel is in my view also a form of Holocaust denial. If you portray yourself as a victim of genocide and then engage in genocide, it shows that you have not learned from your own victimization. I have wondered for a long time why Palestinians have not politicized this hypocrisy in their favor and instead fall for the rhetoric of Holocaust deniers which in effect disbands the state of Israel from this ethical conundrum.

Why are we comparing the slaughter of millions of REAL people to the characture of a historic religous personality? The cartoons are not killing anyone. Apples and oranges, etc etc

I didn't bring it up, but the point is not comparing the slaughter of people to the caricatures but comparing the denial of the slaughter to the caricatures. If you deny victims the experience of genocide it is wrong, but it is as wrong as denying European Muslims the right to be upset about the caricatures of a religious figure as the root of evil. Both are hurtful and unnecessary.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

... but it is as wrong as denying European Muslims the right to be upset about the caricatures of a religious figure as the root of evil. Both are hurtful and unnecessary.

Nobody denies anyone the right to be upset. But bomb-threads, gunmen, threats against the lives of EU workers overseas is just not the same as being upset. The only thing really hurtful, as I said above, is the forced look in the mirror and the realization that the cartoons do seem to make a valid point...

[Fischkoepfin 1]

... but it is as wrong as denying European Muslims the right to be upset about the caricatures of a religious figure as the root of evil. Both are hurtful and unnecessary.

Nobody denies anyone the right to be upset. But bomb-threads, gunmen, threats against the lives of EU workers overseas is just not the same as being upset. The only thing really hurtful, as I said above, is the forced look in the mirror and the realization that the cartoons do seem to make a valid point...

I'm not trying to suggest that the reactions of the Muslim community are right, but rather that the publication of the caricatures was wrong because of the tensions that already exist.

You can't defend the error of publication by pointing to the ridiculous reaction afterwards.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

... but it is as wrong as denying European Muslims the right to be upset about the caricatures of a religious figure as the root of evil. Both are hurtful and unnecessary.

Nobody denies anyone the right to be upset. But bomb-threads, gunmen, threats against the lives of EU workers overseas is just not the same as being upset. The only thing really hurtful, as I said above, is the forced look in the mirror and the realization that the cartoons do seem to make a valid point...

I'm not trying to suggest that the reactions of the Muslim community are right, but rather that the publication of the caricatures was wrong because of the tensions that already exist.

You can't defend the error of publication by pointing to the ridiculous reaction afterwards.

I am not defending anything. Just saying that the reaction proves the very point the cartoons were making.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

No, your inferred holocaust denial and anti-semitism are out of order. This is a dispute between the secular but mostly Christian nations of Europe and the Muslim world. To insert a jab at Israel and Jews deserves ridicule.

It's maddening to watch moderate Muslims become subject of such racism from the West, yet allow the extreme elements to do their best to validate these views. You will always make a more effective argument if you moderate your rhetoric, stay on topic, and ground your points in reality.

You have just made some very serious, specious and malicious allegations about me which are entirely baseless. You need to put yourself in check.

Where have I EVER made "anti-semitic" statements, OR "denied the Holocaust" (either in outright terms OR by insinuation) ????? My mention in this thread of the fact that free and uncensored study/discussion of the Holocaust is forbidden by law in some countries, or my questioning/criticism of the policies of the Israeli government in other unrelated threads, is an example of neither. And your pulling of the "anti-semite/Holocaust denier" cards shows how desperate you are to stifle such debates.

You have now sunk below the mere hurling of snide insults, and actually stooped to what are legally known as libel and defamation of character. And after all that, you actually have the chutzpah to say that I'm the one who needs to "moderate" my "rhetoric" and "ground" my "points in reality" Look in the mirror, bub.

[Fischkoepfin 1]

I am not defending anything. Just saying that the reaction proves the very point the cartoons were making.

Maybe, but it is also possible to say that the cartoons willingly provoked the reaction. If they had been published before the world according to GWB, there wouldn't have been this reaction. Two wrongs don't a a right.