Immigrant Visa Case Question

[Mike E 11,739]

A police certificate for a 4 year old is absurd. And DoS is known for being absurd:

[jan22 3,053]

Try to take a look at this from the Consular officer's viewpoint.  If I understood what you've written:

• You said you are not residing in India but also said you obtained and submitted the police clearance certificate -- which is the documment required for Indian nationals living in India.
• You seem to believe they don't understand that you have resided for more than 30 years in the US even though you showed ample evidence of that.  The issue is just the opposite -- they have accepted that and are now waiting for you to follow the proper procedure for obtaining the police certificate for an Indian national residing outside India.
• You now sort-of acknowledge the docunent you should have submitted was one you could/should have gotten from the Indian Embassy/Consulate in the US, but didn't know that -- which is not the US Consulate's fault and something your lawyer certainly should have told you.  But, because you didn't know it was required, they should make an exception for something that clearly says "Exceptions: None".  You also still appear to be placing blame back on the reciprocity instructions because they don't specifically say you needed it from the Indian mission in the US -- which it couldn't, as these instructions are for any Indian national resident anywhere but India -- it clearly states the "local" Indian Embassy, which in your case would of course be the US.
• You incorrectly assume the certificate provided through the Indian Embassy in the US would only be run against US police records and, therefore, duplicates USCIS when the certificate is primarily an attestation that you had no known criminal record in India.
• You had your lawyer submit an "explanation of their own guidelines" -- his interpretation, that is -- in essence telling them they don't know what they're doing and should accept his interpretation without question rather than review it against the requirements themselves or with State Department lawyers.
• You are "mind-boggled" that they wouldn't automatically declare a required document "unobtainable" when it clearly WAS obtainable, but you didn't follow the procedures to obtain it and are now placed in a difficult position.
• And, you don't want to think it should cause significant delays -- it's already been more than a week! -- in your case while they review the idea of making an exception for a non-exceptionable issue?

This all might take some time to resolve.

 

[jan22 3,053]

14 hours ago, Mike E said:

A police certificate for a 4 year old is absurd. And DoS is known for being absurd:

It isn't for a four year old -- it's for a 35+ year old who could have perhaps gone back into India at some point as an adult.  The police certificate would support that he never re-entered India after his initial US entry in 1987.

 

[Boiler 45,482]

I ignored the what he could have done when he was in the US but as he isn't and unless he has AP has no way of going back without a visa.

 

Maybe having DACA could have passed the residency requirement for obtaining the Embassy document but that is all moot now 

[passingtime123 4]

On 8/5/2023 at 11:34 AM, jan22 said:

Try to take a look at this from the Consular officer's viewpoint.  If I understood what you've written:

• You said you are not residing in India but also said you obtained and submitted the police clearance certificate -- which is the documment required for Indian nationals living in India.
• You seem to believe they don't understand that you have resided for more than 30 years in the US even though you showed ample evidence of that.  The issue is just the opposite -- they have accepted that and are now waiting for you to follow the proper procedure for obtaining the police certificate for an Indian national residing outside India.
• You now sort-of acknowledge the docunent you should have submitted was one you could/should have gotten from the Indian Embassy/Consulate in the US, but didn't know that -- which is not the US Consulate's fault and something your lawyer certainly should have told you.  But, because you didn't know it was required, they should make an exception for something that clearly says "Exceptions: None".  You also still appear to be placing blame back on the reciprocity instructions because they don't specifically say you needed it from the Indian mission in the US -- which it couldn't, as these instructions are for any Indian national resident anywhere but India -- it clearly states the "local" Indian Embassy, which in your case would of course be the US.
• You incorrectly assume the certificate provided through the Indian Embassy in the US would only be run against US police records and, therefore, duplicates USCIS when the certificate is primarily an attestation that you had no known criminal record in India.
• You had your lawyer submit an "explanation of their own guidelines" -- his interpretation, that is -- in essence telling them they don't know what they're doing and should accept his interpretation without question rather than review it against the requirements themselves or with State Department lawyers.
• You are "mind-boggled" that they wouldn't automatically declare a required document "unobtainable" when it clearly WAS obtainable, but you didn't follow the procedures to obtain it and are now placed in a difficult position.
• And, you don't want to think it should cause significant delays -- it's already been more than a week! -- in your case while they review the idea of making an exception for a non-exceptionable issue?

This all might take some time to resolve.

 

The visa is Issued. Waiting for consulate to mail it. The PCC requirement from the consulate is from the regional passport office. You need to have an address in India to obtain this. I retained a local attorney to file the NVC..he said you don't need a PCC. Didn't mention the other docs on the table. In any event, the Consulate accepted my position.

 

Also, what weight does an Indian PCC or any security check from the Indian consulate have over security databases utilized by the USCIS, DOS, etc? In my case, it wouldn't be too relevant since I've been in the US since the age of four and have had numerous biometric submissions since 2005. I understand your consular POV argument as well. 

 

I'm just happy the consulate approved.  

[passingtime123 4]

On 8/5/2023 at 11:34 AM, jan22 said:

Try to take a look at this from the Consular officer's viewpoint.  If I understood what you've written:

• You said you are not residing in India but also said you obtained and submitted the police clearance certificate -- which is the documment required for Indian nationals living in India.
• You seem to believe they don't understand that you have resided for more than 30 years in the US even though you showed ample evidence of that.  The issue is just the opposite -- they have accepted that and are now waiting for you to follow the proper procedure for obtaining the police certificate for an Indian national residing outside India.
• You now sort-of acknowledge the docunent you should have submitted was one you could/should have gotten from the Indian Embassy/Consulate in the US, but didn't know that -- which is not the US Consulate's fault and something your lawyer certainly should have told you.  But, because you didn't know it was required, they should make an exception for something that clearly says "Exceptions: None".  You also still appear to be placing blame back on the reciprocity instructions because they don't specifically say you needed it from the Indian mission in the US -- which it couldn't, as these instructions are for any Indian national resident anywhere but India -- it clearly states the "local" Indian Embassy, which in your case would of course be the US.
• You incorrectly assume the certificate provided through the Indian Embassy in the US would only be run against US police records and, therefore, duplicates USCIS when the certificate is primarily an attestation that you had no known criminal record in India.
• You had your lawyer submit an "explanation of their own guidelines" -- his interpretation, that is -- in essence telling them they don't know what they're doing and should accept his interpretation without question rather than review it against the requirements themselves or with State Department lawyers.
• You are "mind-boggled" that they wouldn't automatically declare a required document "unobtainable" when it clearly WAS obtainable, but you didn't follow the procedures to obtain it and are now placed in a difficult position.
• And, you don't want to think it should cause significant delays -- it's already been more than a week! -- in your case while they review the idea of making an exception for a non-exceptionable issue?

This all might take some time to resolve.

 

 

On 8/5/2023 at 12:13 PM, Boiler said:

I ignored the what he could have done when he was in the US but as he isn't and unless he has AP has no way of going back without a visa.

 

Maybe having DACA could have passed the residency requirement for obtaining the Embassy document but that is all moot now 

In retrospect, I should have applied for advanced parole. The visa was issued. Waiting to pick up the passport.

[Mike E 11,739]

On 8/5/2023 at 8:40 AM, jan22 said:

It isn't for a four year old -- it's for a 35+ year old who could have perhaps gone back into India at some point as an adult.  The police certificate would support that he never re-entered India after his initial US entry in 1987.

 

Hoof beats, horses, zebras. Most people who over stay since age 4 are not inclined to

both depart the U.S. and try to enter.
 

If DoS is fishing for an Entry Without Inspection, that sets a new standard in the absurd.

 

 

 

 

[Boiler 45,482]

Glad it worked out for you, I would not want to rely on a Consulate for a favour.

[passingtime123 4]

1 minute ago, Boiler said:

Glad it worked out for you, I would not want to rely on a Consulate for a favour.

Thank You!!!! 

 

I totally agree. I believe the consular weighed the positive factors in the case (deep ties to the US/approved 601-A waiver, home ownership, well paying career, no crimes committed, hardship resulting from a denial, docs I can't obtain, etc.) I wrote the consulate a letter outlining my background and life in the US. Not sure if that contributed. 

[Boiler 45,482]

It would be interesting to know how it was achieved, but not going to happen. Could be an Officer deciding it was not worth the fuss.

[passingtime123 4]

On 8/9/2023 at 12:22 PM, Boiler said:

It would be interesting to know how it was achieved, but not going to happen. Could be an Officer deciding it was not worth the fuss.

Possibly. I picked up my visa/passport today and will leave ASAP. Any advice when dealing with CBP? Assuming it'll be a "smooth" process. 

[Boiler 45,482]

Generally you sit there, they do something and send you on your way. So dealing is not an issue.