Obtain SSN before card arrives? Needed to obtain CA drivers license within 10 days of CA residency

[visacats 9]

Hi,

 

Arrived in the US (SFO) on CR1 on Fri 28 July.

 

Applied for SSN in person at local SSA office on Mon 07 July. SSA advised that it should arrive in the mail within 2 weeks.

 

Also applied for CA drivers license on Mon 07 July, as I understand I must obtain one within 10 days of becoming a California resident. (Have a full UK license.)

 

Passed knowledge test, but DMV can't/won't print the driving permit until I provide them with my SSN.

 

(I have applied for a DL that is a Real ID, which on balance may have been a poor move in the circumstances as SSN is understandably mandatory for issuing a Real ID. I am also aware that I then need to do a driving test before I'm considered fully licensed in CA, but I can't even book that test until I have the permit.)

 

So, as it stands, the SSN is really critical for unblocking the issuing of the license.

 

My question is: if I go down to the SSA office again with ID etc. in the next 1-2 business days, so say 5 business days after applying for the SSN, what are the chances that my SSN will have already been issued in their systems such that they can at least give me the number? I don't need to present the card to the DMV, just provide them with the accurate SSN.

 

I'm willing to gamble with the time waiting at the SSA office if there's even a chance that they'll be able to give it to me.

[Redro 4,611]

25 minutes ago, visacats said:

Hi,

 

Arrived in the US (SFO) on CR1 on Fri 28 July.

 

Applied for SSN in person at local SSA office on Mon 07 July. SSA advised that it should arrive in the mail within 2 weeks.

 

Also applied for CA drivers license on Mon 07 July, as I understand I must obtain one within 10 days of becoming a California resident. (Have a full UK license.)

 

Passed knowledge test, but DMV can't/won't print the driving permit until I provide them with my SSN.

 

(I have applied for a DL that is a Real ID, which on balance may have been a poor move in the circumstances as SSN is understandably mandatory for issuing a Real ID. I am also aware that I then need to do a driving test before I'm considered fully licensed in CA, but I can't even book that test until I have the permit.)

 

So, as it stands, the SSN is really critical for unblocking the issuing of the license.

 

My question is: if I go down to the SSA office again with ID etc. in the next 1-2 business days, so say 5 business days after applying for the SSN, what are the chances that my SSN will have already been issued in their systems such that they can at least give me the number? I don't need to present the card to the DMV, just provide them with the accurate SSN.

 

I'm willing to gamble with the time waiting at the SSA office if there's even a chance that they'll be able to give it to me.

I received my SSN 2 weeks after I entered the U.S. I wouldn’t worry about missing the deadline of 10 days because you can’t get the DL with SSN. A good reason. I’m confused about your dates though… you applied for the SSN 20 days before you arrived on CR1? Did you apply for the number while on ESTA? 
 

Edited August 3, 2023 by Redro

[beloved_dingo 1,976]

6 minutes ago, Redro said:

I received my SSN 2 weeks after I entered the U.S. I wouldn’t worry about missing the deadline of 10 days because you can’t get the DL with SSN. A good reason. I’m confused about your dates though… you applied for the SSN 20 days before you arrived on CR1? Did you apply for the number while on ESTA? 
 

I assume the date is wrong because July 7th was not a Monday. However, even if it was July 17th (which was a Monday)...That is before July 28th. So I am also confused. 

[visacats 9]

12 minutes ago, Redro said:

I received my SSN 2 weeks after I entered the U.S. I wouldn’t worry about missing the deadline of 10 days because you can’t get the DL with SSN. A good reason. I’m confused about your dates though… you applied for the SSN 20 days before you arrived on CR1? Did you apply for the number while on ESTA? 
 

 

Oops, writing in a rush and looking at the wrong line on the calendar. Well spotted, how embarrassing and now too late to edit.

 

Applied for both SSN and DL on Mon 31 July, not 07 July.

 

I take your point about the 10 day thing - I also believe that it's probably fine in real world terms for the most part. I have read a one account of someone who was pulled up for it after being stopped for a minor driving infraction (failing to yield I think, although no crash/injury), and subsequently got picked up on the license thing, but I suspect it's rare.

 

I was more concerned about the risk of being considered technically unlicensed in CA after 10 days of residence from a vehicle insurance point of view, but my wife's insurance company has just added me to her vehicle insurance on my UK license with full knowledge that I've just moved here and am in the process of obtaining a US license, so that side of things now looks okay.

Edited August 3, 2023 by visacats

[Ontarkie 14,217]

California is one of the few States where the Police will nail you if you don't have your California license.  I don't recommend driving until you get your CA DL. 

[Mike E 11,739]

1 hour ago, visacats said:

 

Passed knowledge test, but DMV can't/won't print the driving permit until I provide them with my SSN

If you need to drive after the 10th day, get an AB60 drivers license.

 

Even citizens get AB60s. I had one as an LPR and U.S. citizen for years.  
 

IME the penalty for residents driving with out of state DL is severe. I did not repeat that mistake the second time I moved to Cali.

 

Edited August 3, 2023 by Mike E

[visacats 9]

41 minutes ago, Ontarkie said:

California is one of the few States where the Police will nail you if you don't have your California license.  I don't recommend driving until you get your CA DL. 

Any anecdotes you are able to relay?

 

Wife broke her ankle just before I arrived so not driving is not 100% straightforward.

[visacats 9]

33 minutes ago, Mike E said:

If you need to drive after the 10th day, get an AB60 drivers license.

 

Even citizens get AB60s. I had one as an LPR and U.S. citizen for years.  
 

IME the penalty for residents driving with out of state DL is severe. I did not repeat that mistake the second time I moved to Cali.

 

The AB60 doesn't seem much quicker - it does have the advantage of bypassing the SSN requirement but as I'm coming from out of country I will still need to do the driving test regardless and DMV are telling me it's probably a couple weeks lead time for appointment availability. So I'd be in the same boat, I think, albeit for potentially a slightly shorter time.

 

I'd be interested in your personal experience here if you would be inclined to recount it.

[Ontarkie 14,217]

41 minutes ago, visacats said:

Any anecdotes you are able to relay?

 

Wife broke her ankle just before I arrived so not driving is not 100% straightforward.

There have been members on here that posted their experience with the police warning others. Really all you need to look at the law, it says you have 10 days. So that is what police  and so do the courts go by. How many get caught is probably low, but on VJ we cannot encouraged or condone you to break any laws. 

[visacats 9]

7 minutes ago, Ontarkie said:

There have been members on here that posted their experience with the police warning others. Really all you need to look at the law, it says you have 10 days. So that is what police  and so do the courts go by. How many get caught is probably low, but on VJ we cannot encouraged or condone you to break any laws. 

Yes, I appreciate that re: VJ terms of service. Very frustrating that I can drive here legally for a year as a non-resident on the same license, but once I become a resident I only have 10 days to get a new one, and it appears that this is literally impossible to do as a new arrival. Argh.

 

So back to my original question - does anyone have insight as to my chances of getting hold of my SSN from an SSA office before it shows up in the mail? Realise there won't be a hard and fast rule on this or formal knowledge.

[Ontarkie 14,217]

3 minutes ago, visacats said:

Yes, I appreciate that re: VJ terms of service. Very frustrating that I can drive here legally for a year as a non-resident on the same license, but once I become a resident I only have 10 days to get a new one, and it appears that this is literally impossible to do as a new arrival. Argh.

 

So back to my original question - does anyone have insight as to my chances of getting hold of my SSN from an SSA office before it shows up in the mail? Realise there won't be a hard and fast rule on this or formal knowledge.

Yes it is pretty messed up. 

I have seen others post on here that they were able to go into SS and get them to retrieve their numbers. You can try that or even call. It won't hurt anything.

[Mike E 11,739]

55 minutes ago, visacats said:

The AB60 doesn't seem much quicker - it does have the advantage of bypassing the SSN requirement but as I'm coming from out of country I will still need to do the driving test regardless and DMV are telling me it's probably a couple weeks lead time for appointment availability. So I'd be in the same boat, I think, albeit for potentially a slightly shorter time.

 

I'd be interested in your personal experience here if you would be inclined to recount it.

Earlier you wrote:

 

3 hours ago, visacats said:

Passed knowledge test, but DMV can't/won't print the driving permit until I provide them with my SSN.

These two posts are inconsistent with each other.

 

I will not advise you on how to break Cali law without getting caught, even though I think Cali law is silly. We have over 50 states, districts, and territories, and you had choices.

 

Thus I’ve contributed all I can, and I don’t wish to argue or bicker, so I won’t post more in this thread. 

 

[Redro 4,611]

2 hours ago, visacats said:

Hi,

 

Arrived in the US (SFO) on CR1 on Fri 28 July.

 

Applied for SSN in person at local SSA office on Mon 07 July. SSA advised that it should arrive in the mail within 2 weeks.

 

Also applied for CA drivers license on Mon 07 July, as I understand I must obtain one within 10 days of becoming a California resident. (Have a full UK license.)

 

Passed knowledge test, but DMV can't/won't print the driving permit until I provide them with my SSN.

 

(I have applied for a DL that is a Real ID, which on balance may have been a poor move in the circumstances as SSN is understandably mandatory for issuing a Real ID. I am also aware that I then need to do a driving test before I'm considered fully licensed in CA, but I can't even book that test until I have the permit.)

 

So, as it stands, the SSN is really critical for unblocking the issuing of the license.

 

My question is: if I go down to the SSA office again with ID etc. in the next 1-2 business days, so say 5 business days after applying for the SSN, what are the chances that my SSN will have already been issued in their systems such that they can at least give me the number? I don't need to present the card to the DMV, just provide them with the accurate SSN.

 

I'm willing to gamble with the time waiting at the SSA office if there's even a chance that they'll be able to give it to me.

Are you sure you don't have to present the SSN card to the DMV?  If you are sure. Go to SSA on Monday and explain your situation. They might be able to help you out. 

Also, I would double check about the requirements for new residents who've moved from another country and have not yet been furnished with an SSN. 

 

5 minutes ago, visacats said:

Yes, I appreciate that re: VJ terms of service. Very frustrating that I can drive here legally for a year as a non-resident on the same license, but once I become a resident I only have 10 days to get a new one, and it appears that this is literally impossible to do as a new arrival. Argh.

 

So back to my original question - does anyone have insight as to my chances of getting hold of my SSN from an SSA office before it shows up in the mail? Realise there won't be a hard and fast rule on this or formal knowledge.

The rules in Michigan differ for new residents arriving from a different state and new residents arriving from another country. 

E.G. I was told I had to wait 30 days before I could apply a DL. 

To explain further: new residents from another state (and Canada) are allowed to exchange their state licenses to Michigan licenses as soon as they have proof of residency. New residents arriving from another country have to wait 30 days before they can apply for a license.

I would call the DMV tomorrow and double check the rules about 1.) new residents from another country and 2.) if it is 10 business days or 10 calendar days. 

 

 

 

 

 

[visacats 9]

16 minutes ago, Mike E said:

Earlier you wrote:

 

These two posts are inconsistent with each other.

 

I will not advise you on how to break Cali law without getting caught, even though I think Cali law is silly. We have over 50 states, districts, and territories, and you had choices.

 

Thus I’ve contributed all I can, and I don’t wish to argue or bicker, so I won’t post more in this thread. 

 

I wasn't asking you to advise me on how to break Cali law. The point of my post is to avoid that - hence my actual question, which is asking if there are ways to obtain the SSN to try to reduce delays in the situation that I'm already in. If you aren't inclined to share, fine.

 

Re: AB60 - there is no inconsistency. As I said, I acknowledge your point that that it would be faster due to the lack of SSN. However, the wider issue appears to remain, as I would still have to take a driving test once I have my AB60 permit, as I currently have a non-US license. And there are no driving test appointments available within the next 14 days in any of the DMVs I can find, or at least none that I can reasonably get to (i.e. 2-3 hours each way) assuming that someone with a full CA license will need to drive with me to get there. So even if I had obtained an AB60 on the day I applied, I would still be in the same boat, i.e. unable to get a CA license within 10 days - although perhaps not for as long.

[visacats 9]

24 minutes ago, Redro said:

Are you sure you don't have to present the SSN card to the DMV?  If you are sure. Go to SSA on Monday and explain your situation. They might be able to help you out. 

Also, I would double check about the requirements for new residents who've moved from another country and have not yet been furnished with an SSN. 

 

The rules in Michigan differ for new residents arriving from a different state and new residents arriving from another country. 

E.G. I was told I had to wait 30 days before I could apply a DL. 

To explain further: new residents from another state (and Canada) are allowed to exchange their state licenses to Michigan licenses as soon as they have proof of residency. New residents arriving from another country have to wait 30 days before they can apply for a license.

I would call the DMV tomorrow and double check the rules about 1.) new residents from another country and 2.) if it is 10 business days or 10 calendar days. 

Thanks, so in response to your points:

1. Visit SSA office again: yes, that's my plan A at the moment
2. SSN card: yes it appears CA DMV relaxed this requirement a year or two back, so I only need to give them the number - and they can verify it electronically on their side, see here
3. In CA there doesn't seem to be any legal subtlety for new immigrants/lack of SSN. Basically, you need a valid CA license to drive in CA unless you meet a specified set of exemptions. One of those exemptions is that you're not a resident, in which case out of state/overseas licenses are okay. There are others, but the only statute addressing new residents is that you have to get a CA license within 10 days (calendar or business not specified). I've reviewed the vehicle code and it does seem pretty black and white. Whether this is a real practical matter is another question; I have read accounts of people falling foul of it, hence the anxiety.

In practice I would say it's something that's been written mostly with people arriving from other US states in mind, who can just swap their license, and just doesn't really address the extra complexity of people arriving without an SSN etc.