[Master Thread] Federal & State Charges Against Pres. Trump [merged]

[Boiler 45,735]

10 minutes ago, Crazy Cat said:

As these leftists will learn, there is nothing criminal about challenging an election.   Even Professor Alan Dershowitz, who is certainly no Trump fan, says this whole thing is crazy. 

there is nothing criminal about Democrats challenging an election

[Family 4,065]

On 8/15/2023 at 7:55 PM, TBoneTX said:

Mark Meadows Files Motion That Could Be an Out in Georgia for Trump and Multiple Defendants

 

[...] that seems like a smart play and one that has a very real chance of succeeding.  For an explanation of what such a motion actually entails, I'll give way to Leslie McAdoo Gordon, who holds expertise in this area.  [...]

 

https://redstate.com/bonchie/2023/08/15/mark-meadows-files-motion-that-could-be-an-out-in-georgia-for-trump-and-multiple-defendants-n2162684

All defendants are expected to file mountains of motions..to move , to dismiss , over discovery…with the scope of delay
 

https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2023-08-16/mark-meadows-petitions-to-move-georgia-case-to-federal-court

Former White House chief of staff Mark Meadows has petitioned to move to federal court a sprawling case accusing him, former President Donald Trump and more than a dozen other defendants of election interference – the first of what’s expected to be a litany of lengthy pretrial motions almost certain to prolong the case

[Dashinka 24,639]

17 minutes ago, Family said:

Maybe future civil actions by states with Fake Electors…
 

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/wisconsin-judge-allows-civil-case-fake-trump-electors-102181613

False Electoral College certificates were submitted declaring Trump the winner of Wisconsin, Michigan, Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, New Mexico, Nevada and Pennsylvania.

I love how these folks are being portrayed as false or fake electors.  There was a reason these alternate electors were put in place in these states as it was required per the Constitution.  All of these states had pending election lawsuits ongoing at the the time of the electors needing to vote, and if these folks were not in place there would have been no remedy if any of the lawsuits succeeded.  Of course they did not, and these electors votes were not needed.  Anyway, I guess we need more political prosecutions out there.

 

I know, slow, steady and corrupt.

Edited August 17, 2023 by Dashinka

[Family 4,065]

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/what-know-fake-electors-trump-indictment-2020-election-rcna98013

15 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

I love how these folks are being portrayed as false or fake electors.  There was a reason these alternate electors were put in place in these states as it was required per the Constitution.  All of these states had pending election lawsuits ongoing at the the time of the electors needing to vote, and if these folks were not in place there would have been no remedy if any of the lawsuits succeeded.  Of course they did not, and these electors votes were not needed.  Anyway, I guess we need more political prosecutions out there.

 

I know, slow, steady and corrupt.

 

What to know about the Trump 'fake electors' scheme in the 2020 election

Here’s what you need to know about the "fake electors" scheme and how it relates to Trump’s federal indictment following a 2020 election investigation.

 

The Trump team’s alleged scheme

After numerous legal challenges were flatly rejected by federal and state judges in several battleground states, Trump and his allies began actively pushing Republican state officials to reverse the election results. 

Specifically, prosecutors outlined in the indictment how they a) asked governors and secretaries of state to not certify the popular vote results, and b) pointed to nonexistent voter fraud to encourage state legislatures to set aside the popular vote and choose a fresh slate of pro-Trump electors. 

 

According to the indictment, the plan was outlined in a series of memos that "evolved over time from a legal strategy to preserve the Defendant's right to a corrupt plan to subvert the federal government function by stopping Biden electors' votes from being counted and certified."

The Trump team helped prepare fake certificates in seven states that Trump lost: Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, New Mexico, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. In many cases, these certificates falsely stated that the electors were their state’s “duly elected and qualified” electors. Those phony certificates were then submitted to the National Archives and Congress. A watchdog group published some of the fake certificates. 

The certificates signed in Pennsylvania and New Mexico include a potentially important caveat, however, saying that the certificates were submitted in case the alternate electors were later recognized as duly elected (i.e., if Trump was eventually deemed the winner of the election in those states)

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/what-know-fake-electors-trump-indictment-2020-election-rcna98013

[Family 4,065]

On 8/10/2023 at 12:11 PM, Ban Hammer said:

trump is leading, print more indictments!

Other Reactions 

 

[Family 4,065]

On 8/11/2023 at 5:18 AM, Dashinka said:

So if someone said hey, let's delete some security footage, but they don't actually do it, that is a crime?  I know, slow, steady and corrupt!

Hmm..yes. Laws violated listed in criminal charges. 
So serious that crime-fraud exception pierced attorneys privilege.

[Dashinka 24,639]

13 minutes ago, Family said:

Hmm..yes. Laws violated listed in criminal charges. 
So serious that crime-fraud exception pierced attorneys privilege.

Has that been ruled on yet?  I understand the corrupt Jack Smith wants that, but I believe a judge needs to rule first.

[Family 4,065]

27 Donald Trump election lies listed in his Georgia indictment

 

…also lays out numerous lies from some of the 18 Trump allies who have been charged alongside him, notably including a large number of falsehoods from his former lawyer Rudy Giuliani. This article is specifically about lies attributed to Trump himself.

1. Trump’s lie that he was the real winner of the 2020 election.(Page 20 of the indictment)

This is Trump’s overarching lie about the election. He lost fair and square to Biden, 306-232 in the Electoral College, and there is no evidence of fraud even close to widespread enough to have altered the outcome in any state. 

2. Trump’s lie that the 2020 election was “corrupt.” (Page 45)

The Fulton County indictment, like the federal election subversion indictment, alleges that on December 27, 2020, Trump said the following in a conversation with two senior Justice Department officials, acting attorney general Jeffrey Rosen and acting deputy attorney general Richard Donoghue: “Just say that the election was corrupt and leave the rest to me and the Republican congressmen.” (Donoghue memorialized this purported Trump remark in his handwritten notes.)

 

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/16/politics/fact-check-trump-georgia-indictment-lies/index.html

[Crazy Cat 41,985]

7 minutes ago, Family said:

27 Donald Trump election lies listed in his Georgia indictment

 

…also lays out numerous lies from some of the 18 Trump allies who have been charged alongside him, notably including a large number of falsehoods from his former lawyer Rudy Giuliani. This article is specifically about lies attributed to Trump himself.

1. Trump’s lie that he was the real winner of the 2020 election.(Page 20 of the indictment)

This is Trump’s overarching lie about the election. He lost fair and square to Biden, 306-232 in the Electoral College, and there is no evidence of fraud even close to widespread enough to have altered the outcome in any state. 

2. Trump’s lie that the 2020 election was “corrupt.” (Page 45)

The Fulton County indictment, like the federal election subversion indictment, alleges that on December 27, 2020, Trump said the following in a conversation with two senior Justice Department officials, acting attorney general Jeffrey Rosen and acting deputy attorney general Richard Donoghue: “Just say that the election was corrupt and leave the rest to me and the Republican congressmen.” (Donoghue memorialized this purported Trump remark in his handwritten notes.)

 

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/16/politics/fact-check-trump-georgia-indictment-lies/index.html

Those beliefs are not criminal.  Those so-called "lies" are freedom of speech.  He has a Constitutional right to challenge an election he believed to be tainted.  The leftists are going to get an education when the SCOTUS rules.  

Edited August 17, 2023 by Crazy Cat

[Family 4,065]

 

4 minutes ago, Crazy Cat said:

Those beliefs are not criminal.  Those beliefs are freedom of speech.  He has a Constitutional right to challenge an election he believed to be corrupt.  

 

Is the Big Lie Protected Speech?

One-third of Americans still believe the Big Lie, the verifiably false claim that Donald Trump was the winner of the 2020 presidential election. Political speech — even when false — is protected under the First Amendment, but are there limits?

 

https://www.brennancenter.org/events/big-lie-protected-speech

 

[Crazy Cat 41,985]

2 minutes ago, Family said:

 

 

Is the Big Lie Protected Speech?

One-third of Americans still believe the Big Lie, the verifiably false claim that Donald Trump was the winner of the 2020 presidential election. Political speech — even when false — is protected under the First Amendment, but are there limits?

 

https://www.brennancenter.org/events/big-lie-protected-speech

 

Alan Dershowitz, prominent dem liberal Constitutional authority, says Trump was within his constitutional rights. 

[Family 4,065]

https://www.reuters.com/legal/legalindustry/alan-dershowitz-ordered-pay-limited-sanctions-arizona-election-case-2023-07-14/

Alan Dershowitz ordered to pay limited sanctions in Arizona election case

 

 

The Constitution bars Trump from holding public office ever again

 

 

Last week, law professors William Baude of the University of Chicago and Michael Stokes Paulsen of the University of St. Thomas — both members of the conservative Federalist Society — argued in a law review article that Trump is already constitutionally forbidden from serving in public office because of Section Three of the 14th Amendment.

 

https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/4155537-the-constitution-bars-trump-from-holding-public-office-ever-again/

17 minutes ago, Crazy Cat said:

Alan Dershowitz, prominent dem liberal Constitutional authority, says Trump was within his constitutional rights. 

 

[TBoneTX 45,604]

1 hour ago, Crazy Cat said:

when the SCOTUS rules

But, of course, Roberts and Kavanaugh are on there...

[Dashinka 24,639]

56 minutes ago, Family said:

https://www.reuters.com/legal/legalindustry/alan-dershowitz-ordered-pay-limited-sanctions-arizona-election-case-2023-07-14/

Alan Dershowitz ordered to pay limited sanctions in Arizona election case

 

 

The Constitution bars Trump from holding public office ever again

 

 

Last week, law professors William Baude of the University of Chicago and Michael Stokes Paulsen of the University of St. Thomas — both members of the conservative Federalist Society — argued in a law review article that Trump is already constitutionally forbidden from serving in public office because of Section Three of the 14th Amendment.

 

https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/4155537-the-constitution-bars-trump-from-holding-public-office-ever-again/

 

Personally, I would be fine with that.  I would be happy voting for DeSantis, or Ramaswamy over Old Corrupt Joe Biden.  I would also vote for Trump over OCJB considering the corruption Old Joe is involved in and has been involved in for many many years.

1 hour ago, Crazy Cat said:

Alan Dershowitz, prominent dem liberal Constitutional authority, says Trump was within his constitutional rights. 

The Democrat Party and the Left have no respect for the Constitution.

[Pooky 3,821]

4 hours ago, Family said:

 

Last week, law professors William Baude of the University of Chicago and Michael Stokes Paulsen of the University of St. Thomas — both members of the conservative Federalist Society — argued in a law review article that Trump is already constitutionally forbidden from serving in public office because of Section Three of the 14th Amendment.

 

Just because people have used the word insurrection to describe the events surrounding January 6th doesn’t mean they have a clue what one is.

 

Until DJT is convicted of being a part of an insurrection and said conviction is upheld all the way through SCOTUS, any ruling based on the 14th Amendment will be justifiably perceived as a blatant political manoeuvre, with no basis in legal reality.