[Master Thread] Federal & State Charges Against Pres. Trump [merged]

[Crazy Cat 41,985]

Psaki and James Comey-  Two of the most corrupt liars in DC in my lifetime.  Comey is a disgrace to the men and women he led...and to the Constitution he swore to defend.  There...right there, is someone who organized an insurrection.

Edited August 2, 2023 by Crazy Cat

[Crazy Cat 41,985]

25 minutes ago, Family said:

I of course am utterly confused what his supporters like in the man.

Some people value policies over personality.    I will now use my privilege to utilize the ignore and unfollow buttons. 

Edited August 2, 2023 by Crazy Cat

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

LOL

 

@Jericho has it right (mostly). There aren't any incitement charges here. The charges that relate to Trump's spoken words have to do with the three conspiracy counts. Put simply, it is one thing to say a thing, and quite another to say that thing in furtherance of a conspiracy to commit a crime. If (as is alleged) Trump made certain statements that he knew were false with the intent to further any of the three conspiracies alleged (to obstruct an official proceeding; to defraud the United States; and/or to act in contravention of voters' civil rights), that speech is a requisite element in the actus reus of the crime. It is the "act in furtherance."

 

At the same time, there is (as Jack Smith points out on page 1 of the indictment) still First Amendment protection for Trump to say things that are false, and even those which he knows to be false. There is no issue with any of that. Rather it is why those words were said. If the government cannot prove that the words were said in furtherance of any of those criminal conspiracy, then Trump will prevail. But if Trump cannot rebut these allegations, he will have a tough road.

 

I make no secret of detesting Trump. But the point of justice is not only for justice to be done, but to be seen to be done. That is why we have public trials. If the charges are manifestly unjust and scant evidence exists to support the charges (and frankly, it is way, way too soon to tell any of that), he should not be punished. But he is being afforded substantial due process here, way more than you or I would be afforded in similar circumstances. He will be given ample opportunity to review all the evidence against him, and to challenge every scrap of it as well as every witness, as is his right. Good! I want him to get a fair trial. I can live with a not guilty verdict because I believe in the system. And where the stakes are this high, the system will bend over backwards to be fair. 

 

If any of you have not read the indictment, please do. Read it all, it's not very long and it's a straightforward read. Tune out what other people (maybe even me!) are telling you about its contents for a while. Consider several prospects: what if it is true? what if it is not true? what if only some of it is true? Hold these questions in your mind concurrently, because right now, none of us know which is the most correct, and what that will actually mean.

[TBoneTX 45,604]

1 hour ago, elmcitymaven said:

the system will bend over backwards to be fair

Not if the trial takes place in D.C. -- guaranteed conviction.

[Family 4,065]

 

Pence speaks ..no holds barred 

 

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

5 minutes ago, TBoneTX said:

Not if the trial takes place in D.C. -- guaranteed conviction.

The trial is not merely the verdict. The trial commences with the seating of the first juror, continues through opening statements, through direct and cross-examination of lay and expert witnesses, continuing on through closing statements and on through the jury instructions delivered by the judge to the jury. Every step of that will be public and open to our evaluation except for deliberations. 

 

Be open. Be skeptical. Weigh the evidence as we receive it. We ask the jurors to do these things. I will keep an open mind, too. It's not Trump's job to convince me of anything. It's the state's to convince me they have it right. I don't mind being wrong when I have a preconceived notion that turns out to be a dud or prejudiced. 

[Dashinka 24,641]

5 minutes ago, elmcitymaven said:

The trial is not merely the verdict. The trial commences with the seating of the first juror, continues through opening statements, through direct and cross-examination of lay and expert witnesses, continuing on through closing statements and on through the jury instructions delivered by the judge to the jury. Every step of that will be public and open to our evaluation except for deliberations. 

 

Be open. Be skeptical. Weigh the evidence as we receive it. We ask the jurors to do these things. I will keep an open mind, too. It's not Trump's job to convince me of anything. It's the state's to convince me they have it right. I don't mind being wrong when I have a preconceived notion that turns out to be a dud or prejudiced. 

Completely agree with you if the laws were actually applied equally which from all appearances, and from sworn testimony from whistleblowers, it doesn’t appear to be the case.  Trump is an idiot narcissist that doesn’t fit into elite DC, so we get this.  Biden a career corrupt politician gets special treatment.  What’s not to like about our DOJ.  That added to Garland who most likely is seeking revenge for being held off SCOTUS (thank God), and many outlets including many here already convicting him makes me feel the CJ system is broken.  Whatever, I really don’t care about Trump, what scares me is the current corrupt occupant in WH.

[Pooky 3,821]

2 hours ago, Family said:

 

Pence speaks ..no holds barred 

 

Mike Pence - still annoyed at having to play the role of comedy sidekick 😤

[Boiler 45,737]

An interesting take

 

 

[Family 4,065]

1 hour ago, Boiler said:

An interesting take

 

 

History does look favorably on those who win .. can lead and unite. 
 

Loved the catch a case reference 😂 that too is changing : Murdaugh , Trump

[TBoneTX 45,604]

DOJ Indictment Of Trump Is A Declaration Of War Against American Voters

 

It's not about Trump.  It's about criminalizing dissent and punishing the millions who voted for him — and warning them not to do it again.

 

https://thefederalist.com/2023/08/02/doj-indictment-of-trump-is-a-declaration-of-war-against-american-voters/

[TBoneTX 45,604]

Dershowitz:  Trump Indictment Does Not Meet High Standard Required For DOJ To Influence 2024 Election

 

"It's just not strong enough or specific enough to satisfy the very high standard that's required when a president of the United States allows his Justice Department to indict his opponent, and influence the outcome of the election," Dershowitz said.  [...]

 

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2023/08/02/dershowitz_trump_indictment_does_not_meet_high_standard_required_for_doj_to_influence_2024_election.html

[TBoneTX 45,604]

Andy McCarthy (who's no fan of Trump) speaks.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Trump's Jan. 6 Indictment:  A Political Scheme to Influence the Next Election

 

[...] In our system, it is the obligation of the Article I branch, Congress, to counter abuses of power by the Article II branch, the executive.  The Framers would have scoffed at the notion that a president could be checked — effectively and without partisan enmity — by prosecutors who worked for either (a) the president who was suspected of wrongdoing, or (b) a president of the opposition party — particularly one, such as Joe Biden, who is running against Trump, the former president under suspicion.

 

Yet that is exactly what the Biden administration has served up: a wayward effort by the Justice Department to do Congress' job.  [...]

 

https://themessenger.com/opinion/trumps-jan-6-indictment-a-political-scheme-to-influence-the-next-election

Edited August 3, 2023 by TBoneTX

[TBoneTX 45,604]

The New Charges Against Trump 'May' Carry the Death Penalty

 

[...] Breitbart reported Tuesday that "Special Counsel Jack Smith's indictment Tuesday against former President Donald Trump for his role in attempting to challenge the results of the 2020 presidential election includes several weighty felonies, including one for which death may be a penalty."  [...]

 

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/robert-spencer/2023/08/02/the-new-charges-against-trump-carry-the-death-penalty-n1715460

[TBoneTX 45,604]

Surprised? 'Randomly selected' judge assigned Trump's DC case has a Biden connection

 

https://twitchy.com/dougp/2023/08/02/surprised-judge-assigned-trumps-dc-case-has-a-biden-connection-n2385912