Attitude in replies

[SneakyPete 75]

To get back to OPs topic without diverting CEHT oxygen sucking pit of despair, as a more recent (returning) member, I can show you brief example, and I will share my own thoughts I was reading thread at the time. Again, this is just a random sample thread I've witnessed.

I believe some posts by OP of that thread were removed due to them being not in English which might make it more confusing to follow now (As an aside frequent post removals in the middle of a thread or thread itself to me is kinda very weird quirk of this side. Even in this thread we already had someone announce "This thread will be removed soon, so I am out" Doesn't scream as productive discussion to me.)
 

OP posts confusing sounding but clear question, originally in K-1 forums I believe, there is a response linking to forums for K-1 procedure. MOD reacts to that response it with what I perceived as weaponised "Confused" Emoji. Why is there confusion? Was link wrong? If there is an issue, please explain. Single emoji confused reaction is one of those things that can be perceived as "bullying" They are not helpful. They do not explain anything. They are just there to make poster feel bad about what they posted or to signal to others "Look at this goof ball posting nonsense" Maybe it isn't meant like that, but that is how it is often perceived. 

OP refers to their partner as "Wife" The assumption is immediately made they are married and there for need CR-1/IR-1 visa to thread is moved there. Now, just from reading immigration forums as a person not professionally connected to immigration at all, I am aware that in MENA countries it is very common for partners to call each husband and wife long before marriage. A person with zero knowledge about K-1 visa nuances likely won't know the dangers of that. I also think anyone with posts in thousands on immigration website should have some degree of cultural awareness, OR at the very least clarify with a clearly unexperienced person about what they mean. That is what I mean about being charitable before jumping to assumptions about the posts.

 

In that thread you can see folks who do provide factual explanation, but there is also a sense of a dog pile in the midst of whole CR-1 vs K-1 confusion thread being moved from one place to another etc. Additionally OP clearly uses some automated software to translate messages, and unfortunately when they respond replies get translated as well. I think that should be addressed on a technical on the forms. When responding to someone, original reply should be immutable. Eventually thread moved to region specific forum and locked and some administrative action is taking. No idea what that means in practical terms. OP is banned? For not being technically proficient enough? 
Now objectively speaking, do you really think this good example of best experience someone to the forums or K-1 / CR-1 visa process can get? 

I think some more active members might have an issue with burn out, it is perfectly ok and understandable. If you only pop into a thread to type short pithy reply followed by "I am out" maybe ask yourself if you need to post anything at all. 
 
 

[Crazy Cat 41,822]

2 hours ago, SneakyPete said:

OP refers to their partner as "Wife" The assumption is immediately made they are married and there for need CR-1/IR-1 visa to thread is moved there.

Basic terminology is important in immigration matters....like petitioner, beneficiary, fiance, spouse, visa, petition, etc.     In addition, some new users don't know the difference between who is qualified for a K-1 vs who is qualified for a spousal visa.  New users sometimes post initial questions in the wrong forum area.  IIRC, That particular thread was subsequently moved back to the original forum after a somewhat lengthy discussion about "not being officially married" clarification.  IIRC, I, personally moved it, then I moved it back after the OP clarified. I am not a MOD (if you were referring to me).  I am an organizer.  We, organizers, are tasked with...organizing/moving threads to correct locations, removing duplicate threads, and eliminating the influx of spam threads (although Capt Ewok has done a great job of filtering most of that stuff out).   Just my humble, factual observations as an organizer regarding that thread. 

Edited July 23, 2023 by Crazy Cat

[Rocio0010 5,579]

15 minutes ago, SneakyPete said:

Why is there confusion? Was link wrong?

Yes, it was wrong (or at least not helpful) because the link was just to the K1 forum. Not even to the K1 visa guide, which is what OP was looking for.

 

17 minutes ago, SneakyPete said:

OP refers to their partner as "Wife" The assumption is immediately made they are married and there for need CR-1/IR-1 visa to thread is moved there. Now, just from reading immigration forums as a person not professionally connected to immigration at all, I am aware that in MENA countries it is very common for partners to call each husband and wife long before marriage. A person with zero knowledge about K-1 visa nuances likely won't know the dangers of that. I also think anyone with posts in thousands on immigration website should have some degree of cultural awareness, OR at the very least clarify with a clearly unexperienced person about what they mean. That is what I mean about being charitable before jumping to assumptions about the posts.

A single reference to your fiance as your "wife" in front of CBP can be very problematic. And CBP doesn't care about how you refer to your fiance. If you say "wife" you're done!

[SneakyPete 75]

2 minutes ago, Rocio0010 said:

A single reference to your fiance as your "wife" in front of CBP can be very problematic. And CBP doesn't care about how you refer to your fiance. If you say "wife" you're done!

Nobody is disputing that. Posting thread on a forum about a question is not same as having interview. Also I am not sure what CBP is involved until visa actually received. Maybe you mean consular officer (CO)? Regardless, did person need to be educated / explained about importance of precise terms? Sure. But do it after you actually understand what they mean and maybe in a manner that doesn't feel as a pile on. 

[Mike E 11,739]

18 minutes ago, SneakyPete said:

OP refers to their partner as "Wife"

And says there was marriage ceremony. The consensus was correct: not eligible for K-1.

 

That OP was not able stop modifying the content of other contributors. When folks demonstrate they cannot operate a motor vehicle on public roads, they lose their drivers license. 

 

21 minutes ago, SneakyPete said:

If you only pop into a thread to type short pithy reply followed by "I am out" maybe ask yourself if you need to post anything at all. 

 

i’ve  only seen that once. 
 

Usually people announce their exit from a thread after contributing to it, and then realizing the thread is heading toward a violation of terms and conditions. This can lead to getting a timeout from management.

 

Lately I’ve been doing less public  “Mike E”-ing because it isn’t worth it. Doing more silent unfollowing. Perhaps the website can be enhanced to automatically note when a public follower has left.

 

I will say this about VJ: I can report a topic or post without fear of reprisal. On reddit you can be banned for reporting a post or comment. I hope VJ continues to provide that safe harbor.

 

 

[TBoneTX 45,264]

25 minutes ago, Mike E said:

i’ve  only seen that once.

Anytime it's posted, "I'm out" sounds disrespectful and dismissive.  One acceptable alternative is, "I've contributed all I can, and I don't wish to argue or bicker, so I won't post more in this thread."

[Mike E 11,739]

3 minutes ago, TBoneTX said:

One acceptable alternative is, "I've contributed all I can, and I don't wish to argue or bicker, so I won't post more in this thread."

Noted.

 

And on that note:

 

I've contributed all I can, and I don't wish to argue or bicker, so I won't post more in this thread.

 

 

[Family 3,988]

1 hour ago, SneakyPete said:

Nobody is disputing that. Posting thread on a forum about a question is not same as having interview. Also I am not sure what CBP is involved until visa actually received. Maybe you mean consular officer (CO)? Regardless, did person need to be educated / explained about importance of precise terms? Sure. But do it after you actually understand what they mean and maybe in a manner that doesn't feel as a pile on.

May I ask , are you seeking more content policing or taking issue and educating ALL frequent posters on Be Better/Be Best  etiquette? 
 

 

Edited July 23, 2023 by Family

[Boiler 45,461]

31 minutes ago, Family said:

May I ask , are you seeking more content policing or taking issue and educating ALL frequent posters on Be Better/Be Best  etiquette? 
 

 

I do that now on an informal basis, I suppose I could ramp it up.

[Captain Ewok 1,891]

I’m seeing a lot of opportunities here .  Will need to unpack some items a bit more but one that seems hopefully addressable now is the foreign language question. 
 

The root of the current policy was three fold:

 

1) Mods can’t often read other languages so moderation had become extremely hard in some topics and posts. Members were hiding TOS violations by talking in non-English languages. 
2) Members had trouble communicating with posters when there was mixed language. It isolated people. 
3) Spammers have gotten creative and sign up and post seemingly innocent things in a foreign language but it is simply spam. I’ve even seen spammers post links to seemingly VJ content but then hide a different url behind it to deceptively route people to other sites (def a no no for that deception). 
 

While well intentioned perhaps we could put together a brief FAQ on this policy and have a mod function to reply with that FAQ and resources members can use to translate their posts to English. Also, we should be understanding that no one will be perfect on this policy — as long as they are trying  that is what matters.  
 

Thoughts?

[SalishSea 17,818]

2 hours ago, SneakyPete said:

To get back to OPs topic without diverting CEHT oxygen sucking pit of despair, as a more recent (returning) member, I can show you brief example, and I will share my own thoughts I was reading thread at the time. Again, this is just a random sample thread I've witnessed.

I believe some posts by OP of that thread were removed due to them being not in English which might make it more confusing to follow now (As an aside frequent post removals in the middle of a thread or thread itself to me is kinda very weird quirk of this side. Even in this thread we already had someone announce "This thread will be removed soon, so I am out" Doesn't scream as productive discussion to me.)
 

OP posts confusing sounding but clear question, originally in K-1 forums I believe, there is a response linking to forums for K-1 procedure. MOD reacts to that response it with what I perceived as weaponised "Confused" Emoji. Why is there confusion? Was link wrong? If there is an issue, please explain. Single emoji confused reaction is one of those things that can be perceived as "bullying" They are not helpful. They do not explain anything. They are just there to make poster feel bad about what they posted or to signal to others "Look at this goof ball posting nonsense" Maybe it isn't meant like that, but that is how it is often perceived. 

OP refers to their partner as "Wife" The assumption is immediately made they are married and there for need CR-1/IR-1 visa to thread is moved there. Now, just from reading immigration forums as a person not professionally connected to immigration at all, I am aware that in MENA countries it is very common for partners to call each husband and wife long before marriage. A person with zero knowledge about K-1 visa nuances likely won't know the dangers of that. I also think anyone with posts in thousands on immigration website should have some degree of cultural awareness, OR at the very least clarify with a clearly unexperienced person about what they mean. That is what I mean about being charitable before jumping to assumptions about the posts.

 

In that thread you can see folks who do provide factual explanation, but there is also a sense of a dog pile in the midst of whole CR-1 vs K-1 confusion thread being moved from one place to another etc. Additionally OP clearly uses some automated software to translate messages, and unfortunately when they respond replies get translated as well. I think that should be addressed on a technical on the forms. When responding to someone, original reply should be immutable. Eventually thread moved to region specific forum and locked and some administrative action is taking. No idea what that means in practical terms. OP is banned? For not being technically proficient enough? 
Now objectively speaking, do you really think this good example of best experience someone to the forums or K-1 / CR-1 visa process can get? 

I think some more active members might have an issue with burn out, it is perfectly ok and understandable. If you only pop into a thread to type short pithy reply followed by "I am out" maybe ask yourself if you need to post anything at all. 
 
 

And yet…. you yourself pop in and out of that thread to “culturally translate” what you perceive the OP to be saying.   Speaking on behalf of the OP is an odd role to have taken for yourself.   🤷‍♀️

 

And I guess if you have a problem with members utilizing  the reaction emojis made available to them, you should take it up with the site owners?

[SalishSea 17,818]

2 hours ago, SneakyPete said:

Nobody is disputing that. Posting thread on a forum about a question is not same as having interview. Also I am not sure what CBP is involved until visa actually received. Maybe you mean consular officer (CO)? Regardless, did person need to be educated / explained about importance of precise terms? Sure. But do it after you actually understand what they mean and maybe in a manner that doesn't feel as a pile on. 

We have seen arrivals with K-1 visas be turned back by CBP for the “wife” reference, the perception being that they’ve arrived at POE married and are no longer eligible for the K-1.

 

It is safe to assume there is context for advice given by old timers on VJ.  

Edited July 23, 2023 by SalishSea

[Boiler 45,461]

I have seen people marry and then seek entry on a K1, some have succeeded and it has come up later.

[SneakyPete 75]

2 hours ago, SalishSea said:

if you have a problem with members utilizing  the reaction emojis made available to them, you should take it up with the site owners?

Well seeing how site owner?/Founder posted in this thread earlier asking for feedback it is good place as any to mention it.

Quote

3 hours ago, Family said:

May I ask , are you seeking more content policing or taking issue and educating ALL frequent posters on Be Better/Be Best  etiquette? 

 

Neither really. This is not my site to seek policing and not my place to educate. I can just share how I perceived thing through the lens of my personal experience. 

 

2 hours ago, Captain Ewok said:

I’m seeing a lot of opportunities here .  Will need to unpack some items a bit more but one that seems hopefully addressable now is the foreign language question. 

I'd like to clarify the issue that I observed in that thread: When poster quotes or responds to someone while using automated translation tools it would change the text they are responding to senders native language. Having upper forums English only makes perfect sense to me for all the reasons you listed. Again requiring English is not an issue. But maybe something can be done on a technical level so that quoted text doesn't get translated when response is posted from a poster using automated tool in attempt to comply with the site rule.  

[meladee 160]

@Captain Ewok Here is an example of what @SneakyPete was referring to: