Attitude in replies

[TBoneTX 45,008]

A noncontributory post has been removed.

[Crazy Cat 41,593]

Courtesy is an extremely subjective term...as is rudeness. Sugar coating never benefited anyone.  Anyway, I have contributed all I can to this thread.  I do not wish to bicker or argue, so I am bowing out and unfollowing.  Cheers, everybody.

Edited July 23, 2023 by Crazy Cat

[SneakyPete 75]

1 hour ago, TBoneTX said:

Should be unlawfully (condoning or considering doing something illegal)?  Otherwise, great post.

 

I believe this is about 3rd party app Lawfully for both iOS and Android. They also have website with USCIS statistical information. I have no idea why this site would forbid access or sharing factual information from other sources that can be either helpful or at least interesting to people monitoring USCIS internal workings. 

Edited July 23, 2023 by SneakyPete

[seekingthetruth 1,246]

42 minutes ago, SneakyPete said:

I believe this is about 3rd party app Lawfully for both iOS and Android. They also have website with USCIS statistical information. I have no idea why this site would forbid access or sharing factual information from other sources that can be either helpful or at least interesting to people monitoring USCIS internal workings. 

I don't know about the website you are referring to, but it is common for forums to limit what links can be put in the forum.  Some links might be to other competing forums or websites.

 

Free to join forums are not free to operate.  They need advertisers.  Encouraging the user to stay on the site is advertisers want.  Allowing users to link to other sites must be controlled because certain links can result in lost users on this forum and less advertising revenue.  This is just common business sense.

[Captain Ewok 1,888]

5 hours ago, AndiB said:

Not sure where to post as not really K1 specific but this is where I spend most of my time and can't comment on other forum topics but I assume it's common in others too.

I feel like attitude in answers have been getting worse or maybe I just notice it more. People piling on OP for misspeaking, ESL errors, minor mistakes about a process and being stressed/nervous. This is supposed to be somewhere to get support, yes people may need to be corrected or get clarity but surely we can do it without being rude? People are quick to say 'i'm out' and 'your immigration journey is over' or some version of you ###### up so bad which is not helpful and generally hyperbole which does not help.

 

I'm a blunt person but there's being blunt and there's being plain rude. If a post or question annoys you, maybe just move on instead of leaving a rude response or piling on. People come here for help and support and they should feel safe to do so, not get attacked. 

 

This should never be happening and if there is a negative trend -- let's fix it together.  Tag me in line and i'll jump in.  Grammar, learning curves, etc... should NEVER be a negative! We are a family here.  

[SneakyPete 75]

20 minutes ago, seekingthetruth said:

Allowing users to link to other sites must be controlled because certain links can result in lost users on this forum and less advertising revenue. 

Sure

But can you see how what you typed is different from what said? 

  

5 hours ago, KellyAust89 said:

So if we all must remain unfailingly supportive of each other, then why do people get banned here for tracking and presenting accurate data and creating effective support systems in regards to this process?

So is sharing information from the sources other then self reported forums timelines ok, or not? And mentioning tools outside (E.g. widely popular apps) is ok not? That is not advertising Whatsapp groups or FB communities. Or the goal is just to have a walled garden where any sources of outside information are purged. 

[steve 27]

6 hours ago, AndiB said:

Not sure where to post as not really K1 specific but this is where I spend most of my time and can't comment on other forum topics but I assume it's common in others too.

I feel like attitude in answers have been getting worse or maybe I just notice it more. People piling on OP for misspeaking, ESL errors, minor mistakes about a process and being stressed/nervous. This is supposed to be somewhere to get support, yes people may need to be corrected or get clarity but surely we can do it without being rude? People are quick to say 'i'm out' and 'your immigration journey is over' or some version of you ###### up so bad which is not helpful and generally hyperbole which does not help.

 

I'm a blunt person but there's being blunt and there's being plain rude. If a post or question annoys you, maybe just move on instead of leaving a rude response or piling on. People come here for help and support and they should feel safe to do so, not get attacked. 

 

I'll jump in too and hopefully add some context -- as well as to offer myself as a resource to help redirect any potentially negative posting trends that have been suggested.

 

For those that may not know me (I don't post as often as I used to) my name is Steve and I founded VisaJourney is 2003 :).  20+ years ago -- crazy!

 

Some brief history...  I met my fiance in Singapore in 2002 and we quickly ran into a brick wall called INS (later BCIS and now USCIS)!  In short -- things were wildly confusing back then and there were only a small handful of good resources online.  There were tons of INS work stoppages on family petitions and the forms were even more confusing back then.  To give some context on my passion -- below are photos from a protest I helped to arrange (actually several) that we called the "Valentines day protests" where members flew to Texas, put up signs and stood in front of the Service Center there.  Press and all.  While the "waiting" times back then are probably small compared to now -- the squeeky wheel got the grease and we broke the log jam with the INS starting to process K1s (they stopped processing all K1s for 6 months!).

 

 

 

VisaJourney was and is a passion for me. I personally spent years in the evenings and weekends, after my day job, coding and supporting the site and trying to provide the best resource possible to help the extended US immigration community.  I care -- and still do!  Life and a family has lowered my available time but not lowered my passion to help people get their personal VisaJourney's going.  I know immigration is both confusing and intimately personal.  VisaJourney has always been designed to be a supportive place where people can not only find information but also a shoulder to cry on and a hand to lift you up when things feel the toughest.  If these values need a polish -- I'd like to offer (in addition 'capt' above) my personal time to help steer things in the right direction.  PM me... "at me" in threads.  I'm open to help :).

 

 

 

 

[TBoneTX 45,008]

I gave Founder Steve his very first upvote sometime back (upvotes weren't always part of VJ), and another one just now.  Such a resource!

[seekingthetruth 1,246]

24 minutes ago, SneakyPete said:

So is sharing information from the sources other then self reported forums timelines ok, or not? And mentioning tools outside (E.g. widely popular apps) is ok not? That is not advertising Whatsapp groups or FB communities. Or the goal is just to have a walled garden where any sources of outside information are purged. 

That is not for me to determine.  Perhaps there is something in the terms of service or admins can comment.  Each case is probably unique.

 

I was just relating what I have experienced in 10-15 years of using various forums and groups.  They all have rules and moderators to enforce them, usually unpaid.  One forum I have been in for 11 years has a really strict owner who enforces his interpretation of the rules, and calls out violators in very nasty, rude terms.  His moderators are reasonable and good people, and try to sooth the feelings he hurts, but he is a jerk.  I considered leaving many times, but I have friends there now and we have a very healthy exchange of ideas.  VJ is nothing like that.

 

One of the contributing factors is that some become obsessed with online, anonymous posting, and their online post are not the real person.  Unfortunately, a sign of the times.

[Rocio0010 5,579]

I admit I knew nothing, niente, nada, about immigration when I joined VJ back in 2019. Whatever I know now, I learned it here. VJ is an invaluable source of first hand information.

 

And there are frequent posters that are literally an open book, and are always willing to help. At least that’s my experience.

I can also see why some of their attitudes might be perceived as “rude”, for example when they say that “they’re out”. But I think that announcing that you’re leaving a debate is actually more polite than just leaving.

 

Also, we need to look at both sides of the story. Usually, when they are out it is because OP has been told repeatedly what their issue is, but OP doesn’t want to see it. That being said, making fun of someone or being condescending about language mistakes is completely unacceptable and non- contributory.

 

In addition, this is a website where people from very different cultures post. And manners and politeness can be different from one culture to another. Therefore, a poster might genuinely think that their manners are polite, but the reader might perceive them different. 
 

And mods do take action almost immediately. The thing is, they have their own lives too and cannot/ shouldn’t be here to monitor 24/7. I believe we are all adults here and can actually “filter” replies and decide which one is helpful and which one is not. 

I’ve been on both sides: I have felt offended by the tone someone used with me, and I’ve also had people report my comments. I’m still here, because I see VJ as “the Bible” of first hand experience with immigration!

28 minutes ago, steve said:

 

I'll jump in too and hopefully add some context -- as well as to offer myself as a resource to help redirect any potentially negative posting trends that have been suggested.

 

For those that may not know me (I don't post as often as I used to) my name is Steve and I founded VisaJourney is 2003 :).  20+ years ago -- crazy!

 

Some brief history...  I met my fiance in Singapore in 2002 and we quickly ran into a brick wall called INS (later BCIS and now USCIS)!  In short -- things were wildly confusing back then and there were only a small handful of good resources online.  There were tons of INS work stoppages on family petitions and the forms were even more confusing back then.  To give some context on my passion -- below are photos from a protest I helped to arrange (actually several) that we called the "Valentines day protests" where members flew to Texas, put up signs and stood in front of the Service Center there.  Press and all.  While the "waiting" times back then are probably small compared to now -- the squeeky wheel got the grease and we broke the log jam with the INS starting to process K1s (they stopped processing all K1s for 6 months!).

 

 

 

VisaJourney was and is a passion for me. I personally spent years in the evenings and weekends, after my day job, coding and supporting the site and trying to provide the best resource possible to help the extended US immigration community.  I care -- and still do!  Life and a family has lowered my available time but not lowered my passion to help people get their personal VisaJourney's going.  I know immigration is both confusing and intimately personal.  VisaJourney has always been designed to be a supportive place where people can not only find information but also a shoulder to cry on and a hand to lift you up when things feel the toughest.  If these values need a polish -- I'd like to offer (in addition 'capt' above) my personal time to help steer things in the right direction.  PM me... "at me" in threads.  I'm open to help :).

 

 

 

 

Founder Steve: hi!!! Thank you for this wonderful resource. 
Is there any chance we could have an app?

[TempunAlex 7]

7 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

Everyone reading here is referred to this thread, pinned in the K-1 Process forum and similarly in the CR-1 Process forum:

In addition to the above, bear in mind that the most experienced members are typically participating in a great many threads all across the forums, trying to be concise while openly providing advice gained from personal or forum experience.

 

If a response seems unnecessarily blunt, read it again, picturing a brotherly or sisterly or avuncular arm around your shoulders as the words in the post are spoken.  Doing this can restore the elements of "tone" that are routinely lost when words are merely typed.  If you perceive more helpfulness after reading the post in this way, then you have your answer as to whether the post was well-meant.

 

Everyone is invited to review the site's Terms of Service, found here:

http://www.visajourney.com/content/terms

If a post truly violates a provision, hit the "report post" button at upper right and explain your reasoning.

 

Folks, this legal-immigration process is dysfunctional at best and broken at worst.  The tension and frustration become unbearable, seemingly with no way to fight against it or relieve it.  Please remain unfailingly supportive of each other.  Remember that if you hold one pencil and snap it, it will break; conversely, if you hold a handful of pencils and try to snap them, they'll remain undamaged.  It's best to hang together through this journey.

Remember, too, that those of us who are finished with this infernal process are hoping and praying for your progress almost as intensely as you are.  You're not alone, and you're never forgotten.  Take comfort and find renewed strength in this.

Hi, I am going to compile a very very large list of links and or screenshots of hundreds of posts by multiple members that this does not and cannot apply to. They are plain just rude and condenscending in every aspect. Some even love to bold certain sections of their replies to make it clear they are being stern and bullying. That's the whole reason why I steered away from here after joining a few months back. I now see the owner has made himself present so maybe it would be nice to get input straight from him on how to address this and make the forum community friendly. 

 

If veteran members are stressed from answering a great many threads across the entire forum, they should simply take a break. There are absolutely no excuses as to why anyone should think they can reply to anyone else with a tone that undermines them and sometimes plain old ridicules them for everyone to jump in on and piggy back off of that behavior. I look forward to improvement and enjoying many topics across the board with fellow members moving forward and hope this greatly changes in the near future. 

Edited July 23, 2023 by TempunAlex

[Rocio0010 5,579]

1 minute ago, TempunAlex said:

how to address this

1. Report 

2. ignore 

[steve 27]

5 minutes ago, TempunAlex said:

Hi, I am going to compile a very very large list of links and or screenshots of hundreds of posts by multiple members that this does not and cannot apply to. They are plain just rude and condenscending in every aspect. Some even love to bold certain sections of their replies to make it clear they are being stern and bullying. That's the whole reason why I steered away from here after joining a few months back. I now see the owner has made himself present so maybe it would be nice to get input straight from him on how to address this and make the forum community friendly. 

 

If veteran members are stressed from answering a great many threads across the entire forum, they should simply take a break. There are absolutely no excuses as to why anyone should think they can reply to anyone else with a tone that undermines them and sometimes plain old ridicules them for everyone to jump in on and piggy back off of that behavior. I look forward to improvement and enjoying many topics across the board with fellow members moving forward and hope this greatly changes in the near future. 

 

Thank you @TempunAlex for offering to help here!  Data is GREAT and really helps.  I'll reach out to you on PM as well but I wanted to thank you and others for offering to help improve the site!  Excited to work together 🤝!

[TBoneTX 45,008]

Keep the Moderation team in the loop, please.

[steve 27]

7 hours ago, AndiB said:

I would just want people to be more courteous. What mod action, if any is taken is not for me to comment on

 

@AndiB +1 on this.  This is a core principal.  Respect each other :)!  We all have our own perspectives, biases and good+bad days... however we have to try our best to respect and support each other.  It's what a community and family does -- and what VJ should be all about!

 

Thinking on the mod side.  If I go back to the early days of VJ, my moderation strategy was always to gently guide things back on course as a first reaction rather than heavy handed "rubber stamps".  I also tried to lead by example and set the 'right' tone.  I think it was helpful and wonder if this is an area we can work on collectively?