Officer said NO to N400 after I751 combo interview

[Boiler 45,314]

Also a Quality person, now I may not be normal but if somebody dumped a load of ####### on me and I need to look for the nuggets I would be wondering what they were trying to hide. 

[OldUser 6,479]

10 hours ago, TeddyFazBear said:

There is no reason on earth NOT to send everything you got, absolutely none. It’s laughable how people here seem to think it’s their job to decide what the officer wants to see.  

I will support this, perhaps, unpopular opinion. Whenever I read I-751 instructions and interpret them literally, I come to that conclusion:

- "Submit copies of documents indicating that the marriage upon which you were granted status was entered in good faith and was not for the purpose of circumventing immigration laws. Submit copies of as many documents as you can to establish this fact, to demonstrate the circumstances of the relationship from the date of the marriage to the present date;"

 

This is supported by a few lawyers I asked this question (including the one I worked with), and by Jim Hacking (YouTube guy) too.

 

It's always immigrant's burden to prove they're eligible for a benefit.

 

I'm not advocating sending local bus schedules to USCIS. Only relevant information supporting bonafide marriage in whatever volume it takes: if it's 1000 pages, let it be 1000 pages. In a nicely organized packet, officer can easily find whatever they're interested in. In my personal experience, there's no way IO will read every letter in a bank statement. Unless there's something specific they're looking for, they'll get a few samples from here and there and make a decision. Solid packet will be a good indicator the applicant takes immigration laws and rules seriously. It will also highlight the effort that went into collecting ans organizing evidence.

 

 

Edited July 23, 2023 by OldUser

[Redro 4,611]

@Rocio0010 had a fairly comprehensive package for both I485 and I751--- and did not have to interview--- how many pages was your entire packet, Rocio? 

[beloved_dingo 1,976]

On 7/23/2023 at 10:25 AM, Boiler said:

Also a Quality person, now I may not be normal but if somebody dumped a load of ####### on me and I need to look for the nuggets I would be wondering what they were trying to hide. 

Possible. This tactic is used in discovery in both civil and criminal cases - instead of trying to stonewall discovery and not provide information at all, you can instead bury the other party in paperwork by providing them every scrap of paper that is remotely or tangentially related to the case. However, for the average Joe, it's harder to provide tons of pages of evidence if the relationship isn't bona fide to begin with. So I seriously doubt this would apply to many marriage-based immigration cases. 

23 hours ago, OldUser said:

I will support this, perhaps, unpopular opinion. Whenever I read I-751 instructions and interpret them literally, I come to that conclusion:

- "Submit copies of documents indicating that the marriage upon which you were granted status was entered in good faith and was not for the purpose of circumventing immigration laws. Submit copies of as many documents as you can to establish this fact, to demonstrate the circumstances of the relationship from the date of the marriage to the present date;"

 

This is supported by a few lawyers I asked this question (including the one I worked with), and by Jim Hacking (YouTube guy) too.

 

It's always immigrant's burden to prove they're eligible for a benefit.

 

I'm not advocating sending local bus schedules to USCIS. Only relevant information supporting bonafide marriage in whatever volume it takes: if it's 1000 pages, let it be 1000 pages. In a nicely organized packet, officer can easily find whatever they're interested in. In my personal experience, there's no way IO will read every letter in a bank statement. Unless there's something specific they're looking for, they'll get a few samples from here and there and make a decision. Solid packet will be a good indicator the applicant takes immigration laws and rules seriously. It will also highlight the effort that went into collecting ans organizing evidence.

 

 

I agree with you, but I also think that the focus should be on high-quality evidence. We sent over 500 pages of evidence with our I-751, but 90% of it was strong evidence of financial comingling and living together. If you send 500 pages consisting of photos, chat logs and affidavits, it's not going to look good. 

[Boiler 45,314]

6 minutes ago, beloved_dingo said:

Possible. This tactic is used in discovery in both civil and criminal cases - instead of trying to stonewall discovery and not provide information at all, you can instead bury the other party in paperwork by providing them every scrap of paper that is remotely or tangentially related to the case. However, for the average Joe, it's harder to provide tons of pages of evidence if the relationship isn't bona fide to begin with. So I seriously doubt this would apply to many marriage-based immigration cases. 

I agree with you, but I also think that the focus should be on high-quality evidence. We sent over 500 pages of evidence with our I-751, but 90% of it was strong evidence of financial comingling and living together. If you send 500 pages consisting of photos, chat logs and affidavits, it's not going to look good. 

 

It is very rare for a I 751 to be refused, here I have seen 2 and both involved Spouses who essentially disappeared after Baggage Reclaim. Now I have seen mention of others elsewhere but all involved really egregious situations, nothing even close to your regular been living together for 2 years but we only sent in 50 pages rather than 100.

[OldUser 6,479]

1 hour ago, Boiler said:

 

It is very rare for a I 751 to be refused, here I have seen 2 and both involved Spouses who essentially disappeared after Baggage Reclaim. Now I have seen mention of others elsewhere but all involved really egregious situations, nothing even close to your regular been living together for 2 years but we only sent in 50 pages rather than 100.

So say somebody sends only evidence since becoming LPR (instructions tell since date of marriage). Say only quarterly statements are sent to save space. Say the evidence is for the last 7 quarters (because filing 90 days early)

 

Joint checking = 2 pages per statement, 7 quarters => 14 pages

 

Joint savings (same as above) => 14 pages

 

Lease (very short one, haven't moved at all) => 3 pages

 

Photos (3 per page, 7-8 in total) => 3 pages

 

Gas / electric bill, 2 pages per statement, 7 quarters => 14 pages

 

Internet / Phone / Other utility, 2 pages per statement, 7 quarters => 14 pages

 

GC copy => 1 page

 

IRS tax return transcript => 4-8 pages (1 vs 2 years)

 

Trip reservations, 2 pages per trip, 2 trips a year => 6 pages

 

I-751 form itself => 11 pages

 

This thin packet would be consisting of just 73 pages of evidence and 11 pages of form itself, 84 in total.

 

I haven't included 2-3 affidavits, page each, car insurance / ownership, club memberships, retirement plans listing spouse, stocks, any medical stuff, birth certificates of kids (if any) in this calculation. I was very conservative with pages per statement. Most of my banks send 4-7 page statements.

 

AFAIK it's not advisable sending partial statements with missing pages, as this can lead to RFE.

 

I cannot wrap my head around how a modest packet can be less than 80+ pages. IMHO it must be lacking evidence?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 24, 2023 by OldUser

[OldUser 6,479]

On 7/23/2023 at 8:25 AM, Boiler said:

Also a Quality person, now I may not be normal but if somebody dumped a load of ####### on me and I need to look for the nuggets I would be wondering what they were trying to hide. 

No problem there. A good page of contents / index page at the front of packet solves the problem for IO:

 

-------------------------

Form I-751 - page 2-12

 

Bonafide marriage evidence:

 

Joint Bank of America checking statements - Page 13-63

 

Joint Chase bank savings statements - Page 64-80

 

Joint lease agreement- Page 81-85

 

Joint travel - Pages 86-94

 

Green Card Copy - page 95

 

Etc etc

 

I don't know how difficult it can be to find information if it's organized well? 🤷‍♂️

 

 

 

[mindthegap 2,589]

3 hours ago, OldUser said:

I don't know how difficult it can be to find information if it's organized well? 🤷‍♂️

 

I got an RFIE for divorce decree and other divorce paperwork, and some related stuff, despite my last I-751 having very specific dedicated sections with dividers with big titles written on, one of which - right at the front - was titled 'DIVORCE DECREE' and another 'DIVORCE PAPERWORK'.

Never underestimate stupid.

[Scandi 4,145]

On 7/22/2023 at 11:25 PM, TeddyFazBear said:

Good for you. But not everyone has that luck. Don’t send people down a dangerous path just because you had an easy experience. There is no reason on earth NOT to send everything you got, absolutely none. It’s laughable how people here seem to think it’s their job to decide what the officer wants to see.  

I agree. I had a similar experience when we sent in our i-129f and were approved even though we only stated that we "met online", no specifics. This was when a lot of other applicants got RFEs for not being specific about what site they met on and if it was an IMBRA site etc. It went great in our case but not in many others', so I would obviously tell anybody to be more specific if it can save them from an RFE. Same goes for evidence - send EVERYTHING, let the IO decide what's good enough and what isn't. 

With that said, this particular case doesn't appear to be about evidence from the posts I have read, so it's a mute point. There appears to be something else that is a big red flag for the IO, maybe they'll get an answer soon. I'd like to know too, so hopefully the thread is updated with any new info. 

Edited July 25, 2023 by Scandi

[Rocio0010 5,579]

On 7/23/2023 at 1:28 PM, Redro said:

@Rocio0010 had a fairly comprehensive package for both I485 and I751--- and did not have to interview--- how many pages was your entire packet, Rocio? 

Ups… sorry, I just saw this! 
Yes, no interview for either AOS or ROC… 

The heaviest package was our ROC simply because we had more bank statements to show, and we sent 24 bank statements. So I’m not sure about how many pages, but I can confidently say that there was not much left of a 3 inch ACCO binder. 

[Ontarkie 14,193]

~~One post removed along with a reply. Please stick to helping the OP's case.~~

Edited July 27, 2023 by Ontarkie

[Ahawuihe 0]

Is this interview for citizenship or for green card?

[OldUser 6,479]

1 hour ago, Ahawuihe said:

Is this interview for citizenship or for green card?

Removal of conditions. Someone hoped for combo interview, e.g. I-751 and N-400, but only got I-751 with no result.

Edited August 2, 2023 by OldUser

[cocoVA 60]

@MyNameIsEarl

 

any updates on your friends case?

[Me and her 279]

2 hours ago, cocoVA said:

@MyNameIsEarl

 

any updates on your friends case?

Was wondering the same.......