K1 vs CR1

[Vashezzo 43]

People are so quick here to push for the CR-1 visa over the K-1. I don't understand it.

According to the VJ trends pages, K-1 is currently about 2 months faster than CR-1. Does the OP here, who is already 4 months into the process, really want to start over?

 

This average also hides the immense country-dependence of the CR-1, something that I rarely see mentioned on this forum by the CR-1 advocates.

I analyzed the timelines pages to get a sense of how much beneficiary country matters for each visa type, my methods are below:

·       For K-1, I pulled the “Avg. Days btw consulate received and Interview” times for each country,

·       for CR-1 I pulled the “Avg. Days btw NOA2 and Interview”

·       To account for the difference in data presentation, I then added 98 days to each K-1 number for NOA2->NVC-> Consulate received status.

·       This gets me an NOA2->Interview time that’s directly comparable to the CR-1 number.

Now that I have post-NOA2 numbers for K-1 vs CR-1, I’ll trim the most extreme outliers and find the difference between 3^rd quickest country and 3^rd slowest country.

·       For K-1, there’s a 148 day spread (263 in Vietnam, vs 115 in Chile).

·       For CR-1 there’s a 558 day spread (644 in Ethiopia vs 86 in Chile).

WOW. That spread is huge, beneficiary country matters a ton for CR-1, but not  as much for K-1.

 

But wait you say – what matters is the difference in wait time between K-1 and CR-1 for any particular individual, not the spread within each visa.  Well, I crunched the numbers on that too.

·       Using the timeline data from before, I added 43 days to the K-1 values to account for the current difference in NOA2 times (388 days vs ~345 days)

·       Then, for any countries that had entries in both the K-1 and CR-1 timelines, I subtracted their average NOA1->Interview times to get a “K-1 vs CR-1 wait time differential”

 

·       I’ve summarized the results in the table below

Time Difference Percentage of Filers 31-100 days faster for CR-1 12.6% 1-30 days faster for CR-1 13.5%     1-30 days faster for K-1 16.7% 31-90 days faster for K-1 22.8% 91-180 days faster for K-1 9.0% 181-360 days faster for K-1 15.9% 361-650 days faster for K-1 9.5%

 

If you were choosing between K-1 and CR-1, wouldn’t you really want to know if you were in the 25% of filers where K-1 is 6 months to 2 years faster? Even if you need to wait 5 months for EAD (the current average time), you’d still be able to start working in the US quicker on a K-1 visa than on a CR-1.

For emphasis, over 25% of filers would be able to get American jobs FASTER by filing for a K-1 vs a CR-1. This also affects the cost difference between the visas - in many cases, the wage difference working in the US vs. the fiancee’s home country would make up for the extra adjustment of status costs within a month or two. For filers in those countries, a K-1 is strictly superior to a CR-1. You get to unite faster. You end up with more money in your pockets. AND your fiancée gets a long vacation off work while getting used to their new life. The only reason they would ever want to file CR-1 is if they somehow want to spend the first few years of their marriage physically apart. That’s not something I’d ever want for myself - but I guess for some, long distance marriage could be a lifestyle choice?

 

Anyway, on the other extreme, the maximum time gain for a CR-1 for any country was about 100 days. Any K-1 filer who decides to switch to CR-1 would be delaying their approval unless they can get married, travel to their fiancee’s country, and file an I-130 all within 100 days of their I-129f NOA1. The cost of travel (and the sunk cost of the I-129f petition) counts against the cost savings of a CR-1, so overall swapping visa types is unlikely to save much time or money for the filers, and in many cases will take longer or cost MORE than sticking with K-1.

 

Lastly, if we move past the empirical aspects of each visa, there are also personal/emotional aspects. Not everyone feels ready to immediately enter in to the financial/legal/religious (if applicable) commitments and obligations that marriage entails. Some people despise the idea of being in a lost distance marriage. Advising someone to get married just so they can petition for an (often not actually) “better” visa has always seemed to me like it discounts the human aspect of the relationship. On a personal level, when my fiancée and I started to discuss moving and visas, her questions were “how can I be with you the fastest”, not “what’s the quickest way to get a green card” or “I want to start earning US wages ASAP”. For us, a K-1 was the best visa. It’s the same for many, many other couples as well.

Edited July 22, 2023 by Vashezzo

[Vashezzo 43]

On 7/19/2023 at 4:49 PM, Dashinka said:

First of all, the Utah Zoom Online Marriage is not a proxy marriage.  It is in fact a legal US marriage ceremony with a valid marriage certificate.  The only issue it causes with respect to immigration is that the couple being married must be physically present together either during or at some point after the ceremony before you can submit the I130.  If you are together during the ceremony, you can file the I130 as soon as you get the marriage certificate via email.  You can also get married as soon as you can set it up while you are in the US and she is in the Philippines, and then when you go to visit next you can file the I130 immediately when you are together.  I tend toward being together for the ceremony, but that is up to you.

 

Correction - Zoom marriages are by definition proxy marriages - "a wedding in which one or both of the individuals being united are not in the physical presence of the officiant."

 

However, the USCIS’ internal rules, found in the USICS Policy Manual, state:

"USCIS does not recognize the following relationships as marriages: … Relationships where one party is not present during the marriage ceremony (proxy marriages) unless the marriage has been consummated."

[AndiB 677]

On 7/15/2023 at 2:58 PM, izzy777 said:

I applied for my girlfriend K1 visa 4 months ago no updates wondering if it would be faster to get married and do CR1.

if you main goal is to be together asap, the spousal is not likely to win here.
If other factors sway your decision (like cost, paperwork, ability to work/travel) which I believe Cat outlined well then potentially the CR1 works better for you.

I assume you filed in March? Currently you're looking at a NOA2 in early Jan (could be a lil earlier or later) then a couple months at NVC and then interview at embassy. I am not familiar on the Manila embassy timeline, so I could be wrong but I think it's a couple months to visa on hand?? You're looking at being together summer 2024. If you did a CR1, I guess Feb 2025 or later (allowing for time to marry and refile). 
This is a significant wait difference but as I say, maybe the other pros of CR1 matter more than 'speed'.

 

When people quote VJ timelines, remember the K1 has been speeding up, the VJ timeline is looking at NOA2s that took 14-16months whereas they now take 12-14 months and speeding up.

[Boiler 45,292]

16 minutes ago, Vashezzo said:

People are so quick here to push for the CR-1 visa over the K-1. I don't understand it.

According to the VJ trends pages, K-1 is currently about 2 months faster than CR-1. Does the OP here, who is already 4 months into the process, really want to start over?

 

This average also hides the immense country-dependence of the CR-1, something that I rarely see mentioned on this forum by the CR-1 advocates.

I analyzed the timelines pages to get a sense of how much beneficiary country matters for each visa type, my methods are below:

·       For K-1, I pulled the “Avg. Days btw consulate received and Interview” times for each country,

·       for CR-1 I pulled the “Avg. Days btw NOA2 and Interview”

·       To account for the difference in data presentation, I then added 98 days to each K-1 number for NOA2->NVC-> Consulate received status.

·       This gets me an NOA2->Interview time that’s directly comparable to the CR-1 number.

Now that I have post-NOA2 numbers for K-1 vs CR-1, I’ll trim the most extreme outliers and find the difference between 3^rd quickest country and 3^rd slowest country.

·       For K-1, there’s a 148 day spread (263 in Vietnam, vs 115 in Chile).

·       For CR-1 there’s a 558 day spread (644 in Ethiopia vs 86 in Chile).

WOW. That spread is huge, beneficiary country matters a ton for CR-1, but not  as much for K-1.

 

But wait you say – what matters is the difference in wait time between K-1 and CR-1 for any particular individual, not the spread within each visa.  Well, I crunched the numbers on that too.

·       Using the timeline data from before, I added 43 days to the K-1 values to account for the current difference in NOA2 times (388 days vs ~345 days)

·       Then, for any countries that had entries in both the K-1 and CR-1 timelines, I subtracted their average NOA1->Interview times to get a “K-1 vs CR-1 wait time differential”

 

·       I’ve summarized the results in the table below

Time Difference Percentage of Filers 31-100 days faster for CR-1 12.6% 1-30 days faster for CR-1 13.5%     1-30 days faster for K-1 16.7% 31-90 days faster for K-1 22.8% 91-180 days faster for K-1 9.0% 181-360 days faster for K-1 15.9% 361-650 days faster for K-1 9.5%

 

If you were choosing between K-1 and CR-1, wouldn’t you really want to know if you were in the 25% of filers where K-1 is 6 months to 2 years faster? Even if you need to wait 5 months for EAD (the current average time), you’d still be able to start working in the US quicker on a K-1 visa than on a CR-1.

For emphasis, over 25% of filers would be able to get American jobs FASTER by filing for a K-1 vs a CR-1. This also affects the cost difference between the visas - in many cases, the wage difference working in the US vs. the fiancee’s home country would make up for the extra adjustment of status costs within a month or two. For filers in those countries, a K-1 is strictly superior to a CR-1. You get to unite faster. You end up with more money in your pockets. AND your fiancée gets a long vacation off work while getting used to their new life. The only reason they would ever want to file CR-1 is if they somehow want to spend the first few years of their marriage physically apart. That’s not something I’d ever want for myself - but I guess for some, long distance marriage could be a lifestyle choice?

 

Anyway, on the other extreme, the maximum time gain for a CR-1 for any country was about 100 days. Any K-1 filer who decides to switch to CR-1 would be delaying their approval unless they can get married, travel to their fiancee’s country, and file an I-130 all within 100 days of their I-129f NOA1. The cost of travel (and the sunk cost of the I-129f petition) counts against the cost savings of a CR-1, so overall swapping visa types is unlikely to save much time or money for the filers, and in many cases will take longer or cost MORE than sticking with K-1.

 

Lastly, if we move past the empirical aspects of each visa, there are also personal/emotional aspects. Not everyone feels ready to immediately enter in to the financial/legal/religious (if applicable) commitments and obligations that marriage entails. Some people despise the idea of being in a lost distance marriage. Advising someone to get married just so they can petition for an (often not actually) “better” visa has always seemed to me like it discounts the human aspect of the relationship. On a personal level, when my fiancée and I started to discuss moving and visas, her questions were “how can I be with you the fastest”, not “what’s the quickest way to get a green card” or “I want to start earning US wages ASAP”. For us, a K-1 was the best visa. It’s the same for many, many other couples as well.

 

Timelines now are much more fluid but some of the essentials do not change.

 

You have chosen one extreme I could think of a few others that I have seen on here.

 

You file K1 and are interviewed they send it back and you are 2 years in and starting from scratch.

 

Lost income is definitely for many the biggest cost, yet again you are making assumptions.  You could be out of work for a year, OK not a deal for some a big deal for others. Plus of course you are guaranteed to go through removal of conditions and you can see what a pain that is now.

 

With all this we are always assuming that the future will reflect the past, I have seen a lot of K1s not realise the full extent of what they are getting in to.

 

I think I said 4 months in and you might as well go for it, so this is more for those contemplating which route to go. There are definitely specific circumstances where the K1 makes sense, you mentioned people who do not want to marry and wait, there are a few others.

[Crazy Cat 41,594]

58 minutes ago, Vashezzo said:

People are so quick here to push for the CR-1 visa over the K-1. I don't understand it.

 

Pretty easy for me to understand:

 

K-1 
  More expensive than CR-1
  Requires Adjustment of Status after marriage (expensive and requires a lot of paperwork)
  Spouse can not leave the US until she/he receives approved Advance Parole (approx 6-8 months) 
  Spouse can not work until she/he receives EAD (approx 6-8 months) 
  Some people have had problems with driver licenses, Social Security cards, leases, bank account during this period 
  Spouse will not receive Green Card for many months after Adjustment of Status is filed.
  A K-1 might be a better choice when 18-21 year old children are immigrating also
  In some situations, marriage can affect certain Home country benefits, making a K-1 a better choice 
  A denied K-1 is sent back to USCIS to expire
  K-1 entrant cannot file for citizenship until after having Green Card for 3 years.

CR-1
  Less expensive than K-1 
  No Adjustment of Status(I-485, I-131, I-765) required. 
  Spouse can immediately travel outside the US 
  Spouse is authorized to work immediately upon arrival. 
  Spouse receives Social Security Card and Green Card within 2 or 3 weeks after entering the US 
  Opening a bank account, getting a driver's license, etc. are very easily accomplished with GC, SS card, and passport.
  Spouse has legal permanent Resident status IMMEDIATELY upon entry to US.
  The clock for citizenship filing starts immediately upon entry to the US.
   

 

 

 

Edited July 22, 2023 by Crazy Cat

[Mike E 11,739]

46 minutes ago, Vashezzo said:

According to the VJ trends pages, K-1 is currently about 2 months faster than CR-1

K-1: https://www.visajourney.com/timeline/stats.php?history=90 

590 days to interview.

 

CR-1:

https://www.visajourney.com/timeline/irstats.php?history=90

537 days to interview.

 

CR-1 is faster.

 

Long gone are the days when K-1 was faster to get the beneficiary to the U.S. 

 

And I have never heard of a single K-1 become anything but depressed over the lengthy I-485, I-131, and I-765 process. Except for ones whose process took 90 days less. 

[Vashezzo 43]

1 minute ago, Mike E said:

K-1: https://www.visajourney.com/timeline/stats.php?history=90 

590 days to interview.

 

CR-1:

https://www.visajourney.com/timeline/irstats.php?history=90

537 days to interview.

 

CR-1 is faster.

 

Long gone are the days when K-1 was faster to get the beneficiary to the U.S. 

 

And I have never heard of a single K-1 become anything but depressed over the lengthy I-485, I-131, and I-765 process. Except for ones whose process took 90 days less. 

 

K-1:

 

IR-1/CR-1:

 

K-1 is faster.

K-1 is *much* faster (6 months+) for certain countries.

[AndiB 677]

2 minutes ago, Mike E said:

K-1: https://www.visajourney.com/timeline/stats.php?history=90 

590 days to interview.

 

CR-1:

https://www.visajourney.com/timeline/irstats.php?history=90

537 days to interview.

 

CR-1 is faster.

 

Long gone are the days when K-1 was faster to get the beneficiary to the U.S. 

 

And I have never heard of a single K-1 become anything but depressed over the lengthy I-485, I-131, and I-765 process. Except for ones whose process took 90 days less. 

waiting for work and travel etc is def not a joy but personally being apart from my partner is worse. For many it may be the other way around but being apart from your partner longer so you can work sooner may not be a fair trade for some.

I dunno how many times I can point out your timeline example uses an old timeline for USCIS which is now 2months+ faster than it was in those timelines bringing them closer in time. For a march 2023 filer, it is highly probable a K1 will be faster than a CR-1 but yes there are other factors to consider.

[FromMexico W/Love 244]

8 minutes ago, Mike E said:

K-1: https://www.visajourney.com/timeline/stats.php?history=90 

590 days to interview.

 

CR-1:

https://www.visajourney.com/timeline/irstats.php?history=90

537 days to interview.

 

CR-1 is faster.

 

Long gone are the days when K-1 was faster to get the beneficiary to the U.S. 

 

And I have never heard of a single K-1 become anything but depressed over the lengthy I-485, I-131, and I-765 process. Except for ones whose process took 90 days less. 

 

K-1 has been speeding up drastically compared to the stats you are referencing. Has CR-1 done the same in 2023?

 

Based on current processing trends in 2023, someone filling an I-129F in May will have their NOA2 by Feb 2024 and their embassy interview sometime in summer 2024 (country dependent), so you are looking at ~350 days now until interview for K-1 vs CR-1. Unless you have proof of drastically reducing CR-1 processing timelines in 2023, the days of the K-1 being faster are back. 

[Crazy Cat 41,594]

 

1 hour ago, Vashezzo said:

Lastly, if we move past the empirical aspects of each visa, there are also personal/emotional aspects.

Here is an empirical aspect for you.  I have seen many, many K-1 couples here on Visa Journey who later regretted their decision.  I have yet to see a SINGLE holder of a spousal visa say they should have opted for a K-1 instead. 

[Vashezzo 43]

7 minutes ago, Crazy Cat said:

 

Pretty easy for me to understand:

 

K-1 
  More expensive than CR-1
  Requires Adjustment of Status after marriage (expensive and requires a lot of paperwork)
  Spouse can not leave the US until she/he receives approved Advance Parole (approx 6-8 months) 
  Spouse can not work until she/he receives EAD (approx 6-8 months) 
  Some people have had problems with driver licenses, Social Security cards, leases, bank account during this period 
  Spouse will not receive Green Card for many months after Adjustment of Status is filed.
  A K-1 might be a better choice when 18-21 year old children are immigrating also
  In some situations, marriage can affect certain Home country benefits, making a K-1 a better choice 
  A denied K-1 is sent back to USCIS to expire
  K-1 entrant cannot file for citizenship until after having Green Card for 3 years.

CR-1
  Less expensive than K-1 
  No Adjustment of Status(I-485, I-131, I-765) required. 
  Spouse can immediately travel outside the US 
  Spouse is authorized to work immediately upon arrival. 
  Spouse receives Social Security Card and Green Card within 2 or 3 weeks after entering the US 
  Opening a bank account, getting a driver's license, etc. are very easily accomplished with GC, SS card, and passport.
  Spouse has legal permanent Resident status IMMEDIATELY upon entry to US.
  The clock for citizenship filing starts immediately upon entry to the US.
  

 

I think your numbers are out of date for AP and EAD.

 

Last column is most recent, both are below 6 months on average now. As I said in my post above (if you had read the entire thing), there are countries whose filers wait 6+ months longer to enter the US. These filers would be able to start working sooner off a K-1 entry than from a CR-1 entry.

 

[Mike E 11,739]

Repeating the argument with the same data does not make the argument.

 

Just because cases from X days ago are being processed does not mean cases from X+1 days ago or X-1 days ago are not being processed.

 

I am more interested in and see as more  meaningful, the average wait of those who recently  had interviews. Even when I change the 90 at the end of the URLs to 30 days, CR-1 is still faster (566 days for K-1 vs 543 days for CR-1).

 

12 minutes ago, AndiB said:

personally being apart from my partner is worse

Every K-1 beneficiary and petitioner says that. Then reality hits. And  this website and others  have daily complaints / questions about 

 

* being bored at home

* home sick

* can they work remotely in the U.S. without work authorization

* I-751 is taking too long

* my extension letter expired and I did not get an unrestricted SS card. How do I work?

 

Next year you can add to the list:

* I-485 costs too much

* what do you mean I-131 and I-765 are not free

* I-751 costs too much

* I got a 96 month extension letter

 

I did a what-if analysis on whether my wife and I should have done CR-1 instead of K-1, and CR-1 won hands down, despite having approval times for I-129F, I-485, I-751 that people filing today can only dream of.  And the what-if assumed that we would drag out the CR-1 process so that my wife entered the U.S. on our 2 year wedding anniversary.  
 

 

36 minutes ago, FromMexico W/Love said:

Based on current processing trends in 2023, someone filling an I-129F in May will have their NOA2 by Feb 2024 and their embassy interview sometime in summer 2024 (country dependent), so you are looking at ~350 days now until interview for K-1 vs CR-1. Unless you have proof of drastically reducing CR-1 processing timelines in 2023, the days of the K-1 being faster are back. 

And yet the trend line that keeps getting posted as proof that K-1 is faster is also a trend line showing K-1 processing times going up. 

 

Nonetheless, I concede that K-1’s real trend line is better than CR-1’s for now. Whether it overtakes CR-1 and gets to 350 days in 12 months I doubt (because no data is being presented to support that argument).

 

Regardless our K-1 case was about 330 days (less than 350) and as noted in my what-if analysis, 330 days was a juice not worth the squeeze.

 

I always prioritize the interests of the beneficiary. K-1 is not in the best interests of the beneficiary and if there

are K-2s under age 18, not in their interests either.

 

 

[Lemonslice 4,792]

57 minutes ago, Crazy Cat said:

 

Pretty easy for me to understand:

 

K-1 
  More expensive than CR-1
  Requires Adjustment of Status after marriage (expensive and requires a lot of paperwork)
  Spouse can not leave the US until she/he receives approved Advance Parole (approx 6-8 months) 
  Spouse can not work until she/he receives EAD (approx 6-8 months) 
  Some people have had problems with driver licenses, Social Security cards, leases, bank account during this period 
  Spouse will not receive Green Card for many months after Adjustment of Status is filed.
  A K-1 might be a better choice when 18-21 year old children are immigrating also
  In some situations, marriage can affect certain Home country benefits, making a K-1 a better choice 
  A denied K-1 is sent back to USCIS to expire
  K-1 entrant cannot file for citizenship until after having Green Card for 3 years.

CR-1
  Less expensive than K-1 
  No Adjustment of Status(I-485, I-131, I-765) required. 
  Spouse can immediately travel outside the US 
  Spouse is authorized to work immediately upon arrival. 
  Spouse receives Social Security Card and Green Card within 2 or 3 weeks after entering the US 
  Opening a bank account, getting a driver's license, etc. are very easily accomplished with GC, SS card, and passport.
  Spouse has legal permanent Resident status IMMEDIATELY upon entry to US.
  The clock for citizenship filing starts immediately upon entry to the US.
   

 

 

 

I want to add that as a foreigner, you have no real status and minimal protection until you are a permanent resident.  There's no way I would have uprooted myself to be in such limbo with a K1.   Failure to complete the adjustment of status is too common, and an absolute shame.

 

 

 

 

 

[Boiler 45,292]

1 hour ago, Vashezzo said:

 

Perfect! Can you tell us a bit about your study design, sampling procedures, data methodology? Would be awesome to have rigorous answers about how these visa choices affect people.

I do not remember ever seeing any CR1 say we wish we had gone K1, now I have seen it the other way. In that vast majority of cases people have gone K1 because they think it is quicker without considering other issues.

[Redro 4,611]

One more thing to add about averages- they don't tell the entire story.  

Not everyone going the spousal route wants to get to the US ASAP. Some choose to delay the visa process for various reasons. 

We have a sticky in the NVC forum with a "how to" on delaying the process...

Delaying the process comes up at least once a month... 

 

Here is the inability to plan travel post: 

 

Edited July 22, 2023 by Redro
Realized I linked the wrong post in previous post.