When does that 10 years of support start and end? I-864

[Boiler 45,445]

Just now, Cali_D said:

 

I will stop paying. 

 

1 hour ago, Cali_D said:

Update:  (this is becoming a soap opera!)

 

Today my divorce lawyer and immigration lawyer had a meeting. In the end they both agree that the divorce lawyer was right all along. Yes, the I-864 does bind me to the federal government, however there is a paragraph in there (I read it today) that clearly says the sponsor must support the immigrant…

 

What Does Signing Form I-864 Require Me To Do?

 

Provide the intending immigrant any support necessary to maintain him or her at an income that is at least 125 percent of the Federal Poverty Guidelines for his or her household size.

 

I’m told, this is where everyone makes there mistake. Most people don’t realize the immigrant has the choice to take services from the government or from the sponsor (me). My ex choose take the money from me. I could have fought this, but I would have lost. Both lawyers agree that it’s 100% for sure that I would have lost if I tried to fight this. Literally 100% of immigrants that sue the sponsor directly for the support money win the case. 

 

The lawyers went through case law, after case law, to show me this is the correct outcome and there is no getting out of it. Most famously in the case: Kumar v. Kumar. This case is what changed everything in America. 

 

https://casetext.com/case/kumar-v-kumar-in-re-kumar

 

They (the lawyers) are going to meet with one other immigration lawyer which is said to be the best, but it’s not looking good.

 

Not looking for a debate, just telling you what a 25 year immigration lawyer and a 30 year divorce lawyer told me. Seems I have flip-flopped many times on this. Ha Ha. Don't shoot the messenger. 

 

You stated above that you have to pay.

[Lemonslice 4,831]

6 minutes ago, Cali_D said:

 

There is nothing in my agreement that clarifies this point, that I am aware of. So I am not sure and I did not ask either lawyer this question. 

Where did they get the 10 years from though?  Because it is 40 quarters of work (or other conditions, death, departure, etc.)  

 

Also, while your divorce agreement might stop after 10 years, that does not mean that the original affidavit of support would be over.  

Edited July 18, 2023 by Lemonslice

[Lemonslice 4,831]

I don't doubt you have good legal counsel, but another good question for your lawyers would be why 99%+ (my own guess, it is probably more) of immigrant divorcé(e)s do not get this special support stipend?  

Edited July 18, 2023 by Lemonslice

[Cali_D 43]

2 hours ago, Lemonslice said:

Where did they get the 10 years from though?  Because it is 40 quarters of work (or other conditions, death, departure, etc.)  

 

Also, while your divorce agreement might stop after 10 years, that does not mean that the original affidavit of support would be over.  

 

Honestly don't know. It will be couple weeks before the expert is available. I will try to follow up then.  

[Cali_D 43]

2 hours ago, Lemonslice said:

I don't doubt you have good legal counsel, but another good question for your lawyers would be why 99%+ (my own guess, it is probably more) of immigrant divorcé(e)s do not get this special support stipend?  

 

This, I did ask. They told me plainly, because 99% of the people divorcing (and their attorneys) don't understand immigration law. They come to places like this website (no offense to anyone, I appreciate the feedback) and get legal advice from people that have good intentions but are not experts on the granular details of the law. This site is a great resource for understanding the process behind visa's. But when it comes to contracts and legalities, lawyers seem to be the way to go.  I'm living proof! 😂

[Boiler 45,445]

44 minutes ago, Cali_D said:

 

This, I did ask. They told me plainly, because 99% of the people divorcing (and their attorneys) don't understand immigration law. They come to places like this website (no offense to anyone, I appreciate the feedback) and get legal advice from people that have good intentions but are not experts on the granular details of the law. This site is a great resource for understanding the process behind visa's. But when it comes to contracts and legalities, lawyers seem to be the way to go.  I'm living proof! 😂

This is where I get confused, your Divorce Settlement does not follow the I 864 agreement as they describe it.

[Lemonslice 4,831]

6 hours ago, Cali_D said:

 

This, I did ask. They told me plainly, because 99% of the people divorcing (and their attorneys) don't understand immigration law. They come to places like this website (no offense to anyone, I appreciate the feedback) and get legal advice from people that have good intentions but are not experts on the granular details of the law. This site is a great resource for understanding the process behind visa's. But when it comes to contracts and legalities, lawyers seem to be the way to go.  I'm living proof! 😂

Lawyers can get creative.

 

[Boiler 45,445]

6 hours ago, Cali_D said:

 

This, I did ask. They told me plainly, because 99% of the people divorcing (and their attorneys) don't understand immigration law. They come to places like this website (no offense to anyone, I appreciate the feedback) and get legal advice from people that have good intentions but are not experts on the granular details of the law. This site is a great resource for understanding the process behind visa's. But when it comes to contracts and legalities, lawyers seem to be the way to go.  I'm living proof! 😂

The problem with that is this may be a major site for US Immigration but most people going through the process have probably never heard of it.

 

And even then this subject comes up very infrequently, now I do not keep count but maybe once a year at most?

[Cali_D 43]

Update:

 

My divorce lawyer reached out to 2 immigration lawyers today. Both of them started confident that the I-864 ONLY binds me to the government. They ended the conversation realizing they were wrong. I am also bound to directly support the person I sponsor.  The case I referenced earlier Kumar v. Kumar is the reason. Family court has upheld that the sponsor must pay directly to the immigrant. The 3 lawyers then found many other case law examples where this has been upheld. 

 

To those that give advice (on this website), please be careful when stating things as fact. Obviously most people were wrong about this. Let's not care about being right or wrong. Let's only care that the correct information is being given out. 

 

Also, I realized today that using an immigration lawyer is great for getting an immigrant into America. But it seems they are not great at family law. They didn't know anything about divorce, division of assets, martial agreement etc...

 

Not sure if this is the final update or not. If there is more, I will come back to update. 

[Boiler 45,445]

What is the plan now, will your Legal team be looking to amend your current arrangement to match the requirements of the I 864?

[Cali_D 43]

5 minutes ago, Boiler said:

What is the plan now, will your Legal team be looking to amend your current arrangement to match the requirements of the I 864?

 

I don't understand what you mean. My current agreement does match the requirements of the I-864. It says I will pay her in accordance to the I-864 guidelines, which is what everyone agrees to when signing that document. This is what everyone doesn't seem to understand. 

 

To be clear: the I-864 legally binds anyone who signs it to pay DIRECTLY to the person you sponsor. 

 

Given that, I'm not sure what you are asking?

[Lemonslice 4,831]

1 minute ago, Cali_D said:

 

I don't understand what you mean. My current agreement does match the requirements of the I-864. It says I will pay her in accordance to the I-864 guidelines, which is what everyone agrees to when signing that document. This is what everyone doesn't seem to understand. 

 

To be clear: the I-864 legally binds anyone who signs it to pay DIRECTLY to the person you sponsor. 

 

Given that, I'm not sure what you are asking?

I guess we're back to the affidavit of support not stating anything about 10 years, or 2k a month.  So where does that come from?

[Redro 4,611]

12 minutes ago, Cali_D said:

Update:

 

My divorce lawyer reached out to 2 immigration lawyers today. Both of them started confident that the I-864 ONLY binds me to the government. They ended the conversation realizing they were wrong. I am also bound to directly support the person I sponsor.  The case I referenced earlier Kumar v. Kumar is the reason. Family court has upheld that the sponsor must pay directly to the immigrant. The 3 lawyers then found many other case law examples where this has been upheld. 

 

To those that give advice (on this website), please be careful when stating things as fact. Obviously most people were wrong about this. Let's not care about being right or wrong. Let's only care that the correct information is being given out. 

 

Also, I realized today that using an immigration lawyer is great for getting an immigrant into America. But it seems they are not great at family law. They didn't know anything about divorce, division of assets, martial agreement etc...

 

Not sure if this is the final update or not. If there is more, I will come back to update. 

I'm not quite sure why your lawyers don't think the $250K you paid out was sufficient. 

I-864 has a provision where you can use assets as opposed to income to show you can support the immigrant. 

Currently 125% for a household of 2 is 24,650 (effective March 2023)- so it was probably less when you divorced... 

That is $246,500 for 10 years... So, you've already paid her for 10 years UNLESS the $250K settlement was a separate agreement. 

One would assume you calculated how many credits she had for social security because if you filed MFJ she received some credits through you...  So, you might not be bound by the full 10 years. But, if she never works she won't be ever get the credits for social security so your obligation will never end....

Either way, sounds like your lawyers are saying "Yep! Buddy, you have to pay her $2k a month in perpetuity if she never gets a job". 

So, maybe a lesson to all petitioners out there... 

Interesting situation. And Boiler did point out the lawyer who likes to file these cases. So, it is interesting to see a real life example in the wild. 

Thank you @Cali_D for being so kind and sharing your experience and knowledge with us... 

 

 

[Boiler 45,445]

2 minutes ago, Cali_D said:

 

I don't understand what you mean. My current agreement does match the requirements of the I-864. It says I will pay her in accordance to the I-864 guidelines, which is what everyone agrees to when signing that document. This is what everyone doesn't seem to understand. 

 

To be clear: the I-864 legally binds anyone who signs it to pay DIRECTLY to the person you sponsor. 

 

Given that, I'm not sure what you are asking?

You said it was limited to 10 years and did not increase with the I 864 annual adjustment? This is the 2023 amount, it will no doubt increase next year.

 

For the 48 Contiguous States, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, the U.S. Virgin Islands, Guam, and the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands:

Sponsor's Household Size	100% of HHS Poverty Guidelines*	125% of HHS Poverty Guidelines*
	For sponsors on active duty in the U.S. armed forces who are petitioning for their spouse or child	For all other sponsors
2	$19,720	$24,650

[Redro 4,611]

9 minutes ago, Redro said:

I'm not quite sure why your lawyers don't think the $250K you paid out was sufficient. 

I-864 has a provision where you can use assets as opposed to income to show you can support the immigrant. 

Currently 125% for a household of 2 is 24,650 (effective March 2023)- so it was probably less when you divorced... 

That is $246,500 for 10 years... So, you've already paid her for 10 years UNLESS the $250K settlement was a separate agreement. 

One would assume you calculated how many credits she had for social security because if you filed MFJ she received some credits through you...  So, you might not be bound by the full 10 years. But, if she never works she won't be ever get the credits for social security so your obligation will never end....

Either way, sounds like your lawyers are saying "Yep! Buddy, you have to pay her $2k a month in perpetuity if she never gets a job". 

So, maybe a lesson to all petitioners out there... 

Interesting situation. And Boiler did point out the lawyer who likes to file these cases. So, it is interesting to see a real life example in the wild. 

Thank you @Cali_D for being so kind and sharing your experience and knowledge with us... 

 

 

Would like to add @Cali_D I864 assumes a household of minimum 2. But, she is most likely a household of 1 (unless there are dependents you haven’t mentioned) so I’d really like to see the argument your ex used to argue for $2k a month and to see if it states: you’ll be paying her even if she remarries, you have to increase the amount every year to keep up with COL, and the obligation never ends if she never gains enough credits or becomes a citizen…