I-864 question that seems impossible for me to answer

[SamuelTheKitty 1]

I have searched for hours regarding this question, but I can not for the life of me find a definitive answer. Just when I think I have, I find another source worded a little bit differently that once again casts doubt on any certainty.

 

My situation:

 

My wife and I live in Canada (no kids). She is a USC (passport holder) who has never lived USA. We are planning to relocate to the USA and will shortly begin the process for her to sponsor me for PR. We have a solid plan to demonstrate a compelling intent to establish a US domicile when we get to that point in the process. At this point, we are planning to relocate together upon my receipt of a visa.

 

Ideally, the timing of submission would enable me to cite my pension income for the purposes of the I-864. However, we will likely start this process before I am actually drawing my pension, and thus will need to go the asset route. I have more than enough liquid assets to satisfy the asset requirement, even if neither of us show can show any income from a US source when we move. My understanding is we will be subject to the 3x requirement, but perhaps someone can't check me on this.

 

In sum, we currently live together in Canada, our household size is 2, and we will be using my assets. We do not intend to use, nor do we have the luxury of, a joint sponsor.

 

My question:

 

1. If we are using only my assets, do I need to fill out an I-864A?
2. Do these assets need to be located in the USA? If so, for how long?

 

To the second question, I know the FAQ states that assets don't need to be located in the USA to be leveraged in this way, but I have a few anecdotal accounts from people who have gone through the process and were told in their interview that the assets needed to be located in the US. As a result, they needed to scramble to find a joint sponsor, an option my wife and I will not have, as she has no family remaining in the USA.

 

Any clarity that anyone could provide would be immensely appreciated.

[Mike E 11,739]

49 minutes ago, SamuelTheKitty said:

We have a solid plan to demonstrate a compelling intent to establish a US domicile when we get to that point in the process. At this point, we are planning to relocate together upon my receipt of a visa.

AFAIK, the U.S. consulate in Montreal will require her to be living in the U.S. before it will issue you a visa. I see this discussed on VJ several times a year. 
 

49 minutes ago, SamuelTheKitty said:

• If we are using only my assets, do I need to fill out an I-864A?

Depends on the consulate or case.
 

Here is a case where the case was approved with just an I-864, and the asset listed was that of the alien spouse (and the asset was foreign real estate. I was stunned).

 

 

49 minutes ago, SamuelTheKitty said:

 

 

• Do these assets need to be located in the USA? If so, for how long?

That is recommended. 
 

For another successful asset based case see

 
 

 

Edited July 12, 2023 by Mike E

[Redro 4,611]

1 hour ago, SamuelTheKitty said:

I have searched for hours regarding this question, but I can not for the life of me find a definitive answer. Just when I think I have, I find another source worded a little bit differently that once again casts doubt on any certainty.

 

My situation:

 

My wife and I live in Canada (no kids). She is a USC (passport holder) who has never lived USA. We are planning to relocate to the USA and will shortly begin the process for her to sponsor me for PR. We have a solid plan to demonstrate a compelling intent to establish a US domicile when we get to that point in the process. At this point, we are planning to relocate together upon my receipt of a visa.

 

Ideally, the timing of submission would enable me to cite my pension income for the purposes of the I-864. However, we will likely start this process before I am actually drawing my pension, and thus will need to go the asset route. I have more than enough liquid assets to satisfy the asset requirement, even if neither of us show can show any income from a US source when we move. My understanding is we will be subject to the 3x requirement, but perhaps someone can't check me on this.

 

In sum, we currently live together in Canada, our household size is 2, and we will be using my assets. We do not intend to use, nor do we have the luxury of, a joint sponsor.

 

My question:

 

1. If we are using only my assets, do I need to fill out an I-864A?
2. Do these assets need to be located in the USA? If so, for how long?

 

To the second question, I know the FAQ states that assets don't need to be located in the USA to be leveraged in this way, but I have a few anecdotal accounts from people who have gone through the process and were told in their interview that the assets needed to be located in the US. As a result, they needed to scramble to find a joint sponsor, an option my wife and I will not have, as she has no family remaining in the USA.

 

Any clarity that anyone could provide would be immensely appreciated.

We moved money from Korea to the US while we were waiting on I-130 approval (from my account and my husband’s). We then used the evidence to show 1.) my husband’s intention to re establish domicile in the US and 2.) The assets in the US for the I864. I didn’t complete an I864A 
Two birds one stone. 
If your wife has never lived in the US before I recommend she open up a bank account in the US now as that is one of the proofs they accept at NVC stage… then move money from your Canadian account to her US account. 
No, it will not look sketchy that it’s your money and not hers. You are a a married couple. This is further proof of commingling finances. 

Edited July 12, 2023 by Redro

[Boiler 45,449]

I never like absolutes as there are always exceptions. Generally Canada is pretty strong on wanting to see the USC in the US and if possible income always beats assets for whatever reason.

 

Has your Wife been filing US taxes, how do they look as far as income is concerned?

[SamuelTheKitty 1]

1 minute ago, Boiler said:

I never like absolutes as there are always exceptions. Generally Canada is pretty strong on wanting to see the USC in the US and if possible income always beats assets for whatever reason.

 

Has your Wife been filing US taxes, how do they look as far as income is concerned?

 

Yes - she has brought herself into IRS compliance through the streamlined procedure and is filing normally now. She makes her income in Canada and is able to bring her US tax owning to zero via the FEIE. However, when we move, this income will cease as she'll seek out a job in the US.

[Boiler 45,449]

The safe route would be for her to head over first, set up, get a job, have some pay slips before you interview, now will your plan work, maybe, maybe not.

[Redro 4,611]

Canada has a mega thread about domicile when you don’t live in the US. 
You should follow this thread as for a few years the USC was expected to move back before interview but during COVID it was no longer an expectation… it might change back to being strict again 

 

[SamuelTheKitty 1]

Thanks for all the responses! It sounds like we'll likely only need to complete the I-864.

 

I have a few more follow on questions.

1. Provided we showed intent to establish a US domicile during the process and my wife relocated prior to my interview, would that clear the bar required by Montreal?
2. Instead of using only assets, would it be an easier process if I was collecting my pension - a source of income that would continue after my move?

Thanks again.

[Redro 4,611]

9 minutes ago, SamuelTheKitty said:

Thanks for all the responses! It sounds like we'll likely only need to complete the I-864.

 

I have a few more follow on questions.

1. Provided we showed intent to establish a US domicile during the process and my wife relocated prior to my interview, would that clear the bar required by Montreal?- It depends on the CO. Read updates in the mega thread I posted to see what is needed closer to your interview date. Clearing NVC is generally fairly easy. Question: What proof are you planning to show?
2. Instead of using only assets, would it be an easier process if I was collecting my pension - a source of income that would continue after my move?IMO it is easier to just use assets (only your wife has to complete the I864). If you use your income you might have to complete an I864a, show how much the pension is in US dollars, and then show evidence the income will continue after you move to the US- generally that would mean a letter from an employer. Not sure when you will start receiving your pension and what type of documentation you would provide. Some consulates (like London) are okay with using the beneficiary's income. Other consulates are more picky. Once again. Read the mega-thread I posted for advice that is Canada specific. 

Thanks again.

BE AWARE: You will receive a note from NVC stating they could not determine if your wife met the sponsorship requirements and they suggest you get a joint sponsor. This is a standard message you'll receive if your wife's previous tax returns were $0. Don't worry about finding a joint sponsor if you know your assets over 3X the current 125% and/or you wife is already employed in the US. 

You should file the I-130 as soon as you can. The I-864 will only come into play in about a year. 

Edited July 12, 2023 by Redro

[SamuelTheKitty 1]

Redro,

 

I will certainly look through that thread to see what others experiences have been. Thank you for the link!

 

To answer you question, some of the things we will present as evidence showing intent to establish a domicile off the top of my head would be

1. Wife will have SSN and be up to date with the IRS;
2. Wife will taken steps to obtain her social work license in the state of intended domicile;
3. We will have both opened US bank accounts and transferred money into them;
4. I will have obtained the appropriate FAA licenses to enable me to be hired as a pilot in the US; and
5. We will both be able to demonstrate we're seeking employment.

A challenged faced by us will be that due to the nature of my work (pilot), where we end up settling will be contingent on where I secure work. Consequently, I won't know where I'll be based until after I am hired. As such, we'll be in a bit of a chicken and the egg scenario.

[Redro 4,611]

33 minutes ago, SamuelTheKitty said:

Redro,

 

I will certainly look through that thread to see what others experiences have been. Thank you for the link!

 

To answer you question, some of the things we will present as evidence showing intent to establish a domicile off the top of my head would be

1. Wife will have SSN and be up to date with the IRS;
2. Wife will taken steps to obtain her social work license in the state of intended domicile;
3. We will have both opened US bank accounts and transferred money into them;
4. I will have obtained the appropriate FAA licenses to enable me to be hired as a pilot in the US; and
5. We will both be able to demonstrate we're seeking employment.

A challenged faced by us will be that due to the nature of my work (pilot), where we end up settling will be contingent on where I secure work. Consequently, I won't know where I'll be based until after I am hired. As such, we'll be in a bit of a chicken and the egg scenario.

Okay~

Concentrate on her evidence not on anything you are doing. If you open a bank account - have it in YOUR NAME and HER NAME (joint). She can always take her name off once you move to the US. 

Also, her moving to the US should not be contingent on your plans or your ability to secure the immigrant visa/ work. 

The CR1/IR1 visa is for family reunification. If your wife has no intention of moving to the US if you cannot move- there is no reason for you to obtain a visa. 

 

You can read this thread to see what happens when the application clears NVC but the CO questions the intent to re-establish domicile (the USC in this situation was not going to move for another 5 months):

My husband was also questioned about domicile during my interview.

They didn't care about my (the beneficiary's) actions.

They cared about his (the USC's) concrete plans.  

 

Edited July 12, 2023 by Redro

[SamuelTheKitty 1]

23 minutes ago, Redro said:

Concentrate on her evidence not on anything you are doing. If you open a bank account - have it in YOUR NAME and HER NAME (joint). She can always take her name off once you move to the US. 

Also, her moving to the US should not be contingent on your plans or your ability to secure the immigrant visa/ work. 

The CR1/IR1 visa is for family reunification. If your wife has no intention of moving to the US if you cannot move- there is no reason for you to obtain a visa.

@Redro,

 

This is very helpful context and certainly will shape how we frame and execute our plan. Thank you so much!

[carmel34 3,620]

16 hours ago, SamuelTheKitty said:

some of the things we will present as evidence showing intent to establish a domicile off the top of my head would be

1. Wife will have SSN and be up to date with the IRS;
2. Wife will taken steps to obtain her social work license in the state of intended domicile;
3. We will have both opened US bank accounts and transferred money into them;
4. I will have obtained the appropriate FAA licenses to enable me to be hired as a pilot in the US; and
5. We will both be able to demonstrate we're seeking employment.

This would likely be sufficient for most countries, however Canada (Montreal) is different because of the ease of travel between the US and Canada.  If your wife has never lived in the US, intent to establish domicile in the US even with the evidence you plan on gathering may not be enough.  It's a risk you should discuss with your wife based on thorough research.  You may be okay, you may not.  Many USCs choose to reduce this risk by going to Canada for at least a few months alone to get a place to live and start a job earning a regular income prior to your visa interview in Montreal.  You will have about 2 years to figure this all out, from the date of filing the I-130 petition until the visa interview.  Good luck!

Edited July 13, 2023 by carmel34

[pushbrk 12,870]

On 7/12/2023 at 8:33 PM, SamuelTheKitty said:

I have searched for hours regarding this question, but I can not for the life of me find a definitive answer. Just when I think I have, I find another source worded a little bit differently that once again casts doubt on any certainty.

 

My situation:

 

My wife and I live in Canada (no kids). She is a USC (passport holder) who has never lived USA. We are planning to relocate to the USA and will shortly begin the process for her to sponsor me for PR. We have a solid plan to demonstrate a compelling intent to establish a US domicile when we get to that point in the process. At this point, we are planning to relocate together upon my receipt of a visa.

 

Ideally, the timing of submission would enable me to cite my pension income for the purposes of the I-864. However, we will likely start this process before I am actually drawing my pension, and thus will need to go the asset route. I have more than enough liquid assets to satisfy the asset requirement, even if neither of us show can show any income from a US source when we move. My understanding is we will be subject to the 3x requirement, but perhaps someone can't check me on this.

 

In sum, we currently live together in Canada, our household size is 2, and we will be using my assets. We do not intend to use, nor do we have the luxury of, a joint sponsor.

 

My question:

 

1. If we are using only my assets, do I need to fill out an I-864A?
2. Do these assets need to be located in the USA? If so, for how long?

 

To the second question, I know the FAQ states that assets don't need to be located in the USA to be leveraged in this way, but I have a few anecdotal accounts from people who have gone through the process and were told in their interview that the assets needed to be located in the US. As a result, they needed to scramble to find a joint sponsor, an option my wife and I will not have, as she has no family remaining in the USA.

 

Any clarity that anyone could provide would be immensely appreciated.

Note that the affidavit of support is not provided until after the I-130 is approved.  That will take about a year.  How long until you draw your pension?  The answer to the I-864a related question is in the I-864 instructions you MUST become an A-Student of, but NO, the intending immigrant spouse does not provide an I-864a.

[SamuelTheKitty 1]

I have a further question related to this thread as my wife and I continue to architect the next 18 months of this process.

 

We have determined that it would be best for my USC wife to take up residence and obtain employment in the US prior to my interview so as to mitigate the risk of refusal due to insufficient evidence of domicile. A joint sponsor for us is theoretically possible, but it would require imposing on friends/acquaintances in the US instead of family members, which we are reticent to do. While several months of separation is not ideal, she would likely take up a position that met the income requirements for our household size (2), while being located close enough for us to spend our weekends together across the border in Canada.

 

Once at the NVC stage, our plan would be to use strictly assets for the initially submitted I-864, in addition to other evidence of intent to establish domicile (SSN, voting record, professional licensing, etc.) in order to clear the DQ hurdle. Once DQ'd, my wife would obtain a short term month to month lease (we'd ultimately move elsewhere once I received a visa) and a position at a US firm inside the US while I wait for my interview. Then, when I present before the CO at the interview, I would bring a copy of her lease, evidence of her updated voter registration, new driver's license, as well as a new I-864 that would be supported by her pay stubs from her new US position. Presenting previous tax transcript showing the required income will not be possible as she exercises the FEIE each year which reduces her taxable income to $0 or close to $0 on her 1040s.

 

My question is - is this a viable plan? Specifically, would pay stubs from an employer satisfy the requirements for the I-864, absent any other evidence of income? If is is not an optimal plan, what adjustments should we consider?

Edited January 19 by SamuelTheKitty
Adding additional context