EV laggard Toyota says its next-gen EVs will have over 600 miles range

[Dashinka 24,479]

3 minutes ago, Boiler said:

I am not sure it is needed to get the gist but if anybody needs any the terms translated just shout.

 

I can see a market opportunity for people specialising in EV's, there is already one for repairing Battery Packs for example which none of the Manufacturers want to do.

 

I have not come across any good examples of multiple vehicle pile ups where lots of EVs are involved, I can see that getting messy.

 

Insurance is interesting, even an average EV is a rocket ship compared to ICE, plus the repair issues. I wondered if the like of Tesla being able to harvest data would give them an edge. 

The materials used to assembly the batteries are not very conducive to repair at this point.  I have seen the Tesla and Rivian packs, and the potting used to fill the space between the individual cells is not easy to remove, so anyone specializing in tearing a pack down and refurbishing it for Re-use might involve a bit of liability insurance.

 

On the whole, I think the insurance companies have not caught up yet particularly on full EVs.  With full EVs being around 1-2% of the market, I am not sure the insurance companies have enough information to understand the ramifications.  Time will tell' and the study cited in the video seems to show the insurance industry is waking up.

[Boiler 45,442]

Thatcham was mentioned and that is what they do.

 

I have seen a couple of videos, mainly Tesla, where they have had a bad pack which the Manufacturer will only replace. If there are not too many bad cells the pack is removed the bad cells located and cut out. A very marginal loss in capacity.

 

I agree it is a design issue, out of my sphere but it should be possible to design a pack that is easier cheaper to maintain. I guess this is the same as Phones.

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,370]

18 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

The materials used to assembly the batteries are not very conducive to repair at this point.  I have seen the Tesla and Rivian packs, and the potting used to fill the space between the individual cells is not easy to remove, so anyone specializing in tearing a pack down and refurbishing it for Re-use might involve a bit of liability insurance.

 

On the whole, I think the insurance companies have not caught up yet particularly on full EVs.  With full EVs being around 1-2% of the market, I am not sure the insurance companies have enough information to understand the ramifications.  Time will tell' and the study cited in the video seems to show the insurance industry is waking up.

Our trainer sent us this today. Kinda reinforces what some of you have been saying.

Toyota Is Right: We Need More Hybrid Cars and Fewer EVs. Here's Why

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/toyota-is-right-we-need-more-hybrid-cars-and-fewer-evs-here-s-why/ar-AA1dwE9L?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=458ebc412e914456b1630471a7a11962&ei=10

 

[Dashinka 24,479]

7 minutes ago, Boiler said:

Thatcham was mentioned and that is what they do.

 

I have seen a couple of videos, mainly Tesla, where they have had a bad pack which the Manufacturer will only replace. If there are not too many bad cells the pack is removed the bad cells located and cut out. A very marginal loss in capacity.

 

I agree it is a design issue, out of my sphere but it should be possible to design a pack that is easier cheaper to maintain. I guess this is the same as Phones.

The issue is the pack needs to survive all the inputs from the road for 150k plus miles which makes it difficult to design them for ease of service.

[Boiler 45,442]

4 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

The issue is the pack needs to survive all the inputs from the road for 150k plus miles which makes it difficult to design them for ease of service.

Maybe a lot longer than that, current EVs could last significantly longer than ICE vehicles.

 

I was thinking of some sort of system where bad cells are automatically disconnected rather than somebody having to physically snip them out.

 

I remember somebody I knew had a EV 10 years or so ago, he did not drive it up here due to limited range, I then saw a few years ago somebody with the same car having the pack replaced with a modern one that tripled the range.

[Boiler 45,442]

16 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

Our trainer sent us this today. Kinda reinforces what some of you have been saying.

Toyota Is Right: We Need More Hybrid Cars and Fewer EVs. Here's Why

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/toyota-is-right-we-need-more-hybrid-cars-and-fewer-evs-here-s-why/ar-AA1dwE9L?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=458ebc412e914456b1630471a7a11962&ei=10

 

That makes sense if battery production is the limiting factor.

 

The obvious other factor is size and weight of vehicles, halve the weight and significantly reduce the battery size.

[Dashinka 24,479]

59 minutes ago, Boiler said:

Maybe a lot longer than that, current EVs could last significantly longer than ICE vehicles.

 

I was thinking of some sort of system where bad cells are automatically disconnected rather than somebody having to physically snip them out.

 

I remember somebody I knew had a EV 10 years or so ago, he did not drive it up here due to limited range, I then saw a few years ago somebody with the same car having the pack replaced with a modern one that tripled the range.

Yes, I agree, but the 150k  miles is the industry standard.  The average age of the entire fleet has been going up significantly though, and EVs that are not in an accident are more than likely to last longer.

Edited July 8, 2023 by Dashinka

[TBoneTX 45,248]

Here's Another Reason To Hate EVs

 

EVs get massive tax subsidies to convince people to buy them, but their owners don't pay gasoline taxes, for the obvious reason that they never have to fill up.  The more EVs on the road, the less revenue the gas taxes raise.

So the policy geniuses in Washington have a solution: Impose a per-mile tax.  [...]

 

https://issuesinsights.com/2023/07/03/heres-another-reason-to-hate-evs/

[Dashinka 24,479]

3 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

Here's Another Reason To Hate EVs

 

EVs get massive tax subsidies to convince people to buy them, but their owners don't pay gasoline taxes, for the obvious reason that they never have to fill up.  The more EVs on the road, the less revenue the gas taxes raise.

So the policy geniuses in Washington have a solution: Impose a per-mile tax.  [...]

 

https://issuesinsights.com/2023/07/03/heres-another-reason-to-hate-evs/

Just another elephant in the room.  Many states charge a higher registration fee for EVs to make up for the state fuel taxes, but the federal fuel tax is another issue altogether.

[Boiler 45,442]

I forget where I saw this and it does apply also to supersized ICE vehicles as well.

 

So a comparable EV vehicle way a lot more more due to the battery weight which exponentially causes more wear on road and bridges reducing their life expectancy. I am not aware of any net zero road building techniques.

[Dashinka 24,479]

3 hours ago, Boiler said:

I forget where I saw this and it does apply also to supersized ICE vehicles as well.

 

So a comparable EV vehicle way a lot more more due to the battery weight which exponentially causes more wear on road and bridges reducing their life expectancy. I am not aware of any net zero road building techniques.

EVs can weigh 0.5 to 1 ton more on average.  There are some extremes like the Hummer EV which weighs in at about 4.5 tons, and a comparable Chevy Silverado 1500 about 2.5 tons.  The infrastructure damage will become an issue, but there is also a safety factor involving momentum in a crash.  Not sure I would want to be in a Honda Civic when it is hit by almost any EV.

[TBoneTX 45,248]

This would seem to render EVs essentially useless under most conditions.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

New data show temperatures above 86F begin a precipitous decline of EV performance

 

Recurrent, an auto company based in Seattle, has a mission to "accelerate the overall adoption" of E.V.s and, to do so, strives to provide "transparency and confidence" in pre-owned E.V. purchases.  This past Friday, the enterprise released a research report titled "Deep Dive: Lithium Ion Batteries and Heat," [...]

 

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2023/08/new_data_shows_temperatures_above_86_f_begins_a_precipitous_decline_of_ev_performance.html