Recently filed 129F - still so many questions - here's the first

[Dan and Akari 43]

Hello everyone,

 

Quick background:

I am a USC, my partner is Burmese.  We met in Thailand in 2022.  She moved to Thailand looking for employment, and I was there taking a TEFL course to potentially teach English abroad (I sold my business in 2016 and took a sabbatical in November 2020 so I am technically "retired early"). I proposed in January and we had a ceremony in Myanmar February 28, 2023, but we never signed any documents to make the marriage official because we intended to file for the K1 and we want  to do everything by the book.  The ceremony was mainly for her friends and family to celebrate our union.  We have a condo in Thailand in her name because she is here on an 11 month ED visa.  I have lived in Thailand with her since January, but I am here on a tourist visa.  My permanent residence is still in the US.

 

We hired an immigration attorney in March to help us file the 129F, gathered all our supporting docs and he filed in late April.   We received receipt confirmation a couple weeks later (May 12, 2023), and now we are digging in for the long journey ahead.  Living with my partner has been a blessing that I know most couples in the K1 queue don't have the privilege of enjoying; however we share the same desire as everyone here and that is to be together in the US ASAP so we can start building some permanency into our lives.  It seems the more we review our options, the more questions we have.  We realize that every case is different and there are many variables to consider with every question. 

 

- Her ED visa expires in October.  Should we pack up and move to Myanmar so she can spend time with her family the next few months while we wait?  Will moving to a new country delay the process?  Would getting an appointment at US embassy in Yangon potentially be faster than getting an appointment in Bangkok which has a larger case load?

 

We are simply looking for anyone with experience at either of these two embassies or any tidbits of advice anyone is willing to toss our direction.  Every decision we make is driven by the question everyone has: "will this speed up or slow down the process?".  We realize that the answer to the question of move or not move is a personal decision, but we are trying to gather as much information as we can to make as educated a decision as possible.

 

 

[Mike E 11,739]

10 minutes ago, Dan and Akari said:

I am a USC, my partner is Burmese

Mingalarbar. i hope her family is safe

 

11 minutes ago, Dan and Akari said:

I proposed in January and we had a ceremony in Myanmar February 28, 2023, but we never signed any documents to make the marriage official because we intended to file for the K1

You are married and not eligible for K-1.

 

Do the  a Utah County Marriage Ceremonies By Remote Appearance (  https://www.utahcounty.gov/dept/clerk/marriage/ceremony.html ) and file I-130

15 minutes ago, Dan and Akari said:

Should we pack up and move to Myanmar so she can spend time with her family the next few months while we wait?

She will only be able to interview where she has authorized presence.

 

Given the civil war in Burma, I cannot advise either of you to go there.

 

My wife got a K-1 from the U.S. embassy in Rangoon, in 2019. Had Utah Remote Appearance been available, we would have done CR-1.

[powerpuff 6,674]

1 hour ago, Dan and Akari said:

we had a ceremony in Myanmar February 28, 2023, but we never signed any documents to make the marriage official

Signed or not signed, you are considered married and thus ineligible for K1. You can search and read here about many denials for an unofficial ceremonies where nothing was signed but consulate denied their visas because for them it is considered as married.

[Dan and Akari 43]

51 minutes ago, Mike E said:

Mingalarbar. i hope her family is safe

 

You are married and not eligible for K-1.

 

Do the  a Utah County Marriage Ceremonies By Remote Appearance (  https://www.utahcounty.gov/dept/clerk/marriage/ceremony.html ) and file I-130

She will only be able to interview where she has authorized presence.

 

Given the civil war in Burma, I cannot advise either of you to go there.

 

My wife got a K-1 from the U.S. embassy in Rangoon, in 2019. Had Utah Remote Appearance been available, we would have done CR-1.

They are all safe.  kayzuu bar

 

"You are married and not eligible for K-1."

We are actually not married.  We only had a ceremony to celebrate our union with her family and friends  It was our understanding that we still need to sign a marriage certificate and register for us to be considered "married".

 

We were strongly advised against the Utah County Marriage ceremony route by our US immigration attorney.  While there might be a mountain of anecdotal evidence that this path works, we made a conscious decision that we don't want any shadow of doubt on anything we do.  Hence the reason we did not register as husband and wife...our intention was to apply for K1.

We are honestly rethinking the K1 vs CR1 route given the current ridiculously long GC wait times once we are married in the US.  It's just tough to change knowing the process to get her to the US will take even longer.

 

She will only be able to interview where she has authorized presence."

Not sure I understand this.  Are you saying she won't be able to interview in Thailand?  

[Mike E 11,739]

21 minutes ago, Dan and Akari said:

 

"You are married and not eligible for K-1."

We are actually not married.

Not my first rodeo.

 

You are married per the requirements of the K-1 visa.

 

Your profile shows her in a traditional western bridal gown with head dress. This pic alone is likely to cause I-129F or K-1 to be denied. Or CBP denying entry.

 

21 minutes ago, Dan and Akari said:

We were strongly advised against the Utah County Marriage ceremony route by our US immigration attorney

So now you have two reasons why your lawyer should not be practicing U.S. immigration law. 
 

There are excellent reasons why Burmese citizens should use Utah County to be married.

 

21 minutes ago, Dan and Akari said:

She will only be able to interview where she has authorized presence."

Not sure I understand this.  Are you saying she won't be able to interview in Thailand?  

If her “ED” visa has expired, then she will not be able to interview in Bangkok unless the U.S. embassy in Burma closes.

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by Mike E

[Dan and Akari 43]

22 minutes ago, powerpuff said:

Signed or not signed, you are considered married and thus ineligible for K1. You can search and read here about many denials for an unofficial ceremonies where nothing was signed but consulate denied their visas because for them it is considered as married.

Thanks for the reply.  Not saying anything is right or wrong.  Again, we are trying to do everything the right way from the start to minimize any delay in an already arduous process.  We were up front with USCIS in our letters accompanying the 129f that we had an engagement celebration.  I personally know someone who did the same thing with their Thai fiance, got approved for K1 by the US embassy in Bangkok and subsequently married in the US.

 

Excerpt from USCIS web site:

Validity of Marriages in the United States or Abroad

Validity of Marriage for Immigration Purposes

The applicant must establish validity of his or her marriage. In general, the legal validity of a marriage is determined by the law of the place where the marriage was celebrated (“place-of-celebration rule”). Under this rule, a marriage is valid for immigration purposes in cases where the marriage is valid under the law of the jurisdiction in which it is performed.

 

Consequently, if Myanmar does not recognize this as a marriage, I don't see how the US Embassy un Myanmar can arbitrarily say a binding marriage exists.  We are confirming again with a Myanmar attorney because we are still not quite 2 months into NOA1 so switching to CR1 at this point would not prove too costly.

 

Also from USCIS web site:

In all cases, the burden is on the applicant to establish that he or she has a valid marriage with his or her U.S. citizen spouse for the required period of time.^[2] In most cases, a marriage certificate is prima facie evidence that the marriage was properly and legally performed....

 

...If an official civil record cannot be produced, secondary evidence may be accepted on a case-by-case basis. An officer has the right to request an original record if there is doubt as to the authenticity of the record.

So by the logic that we are considered married, and we switch from K1 to CR1, what are the odds the Us Embassy will accept wedding photos as proof of marriage?  No legal documents, just wedding photos.

 

Again, we could be wrong, and if we are, then we will switch to CR1.

[powerpuff 6,674]

As I said you should search and read those threads. Nobody there had actual marriage documents , they were symbolic or religious ceremonies that did not produce legal documents. Yet, they were denied because there were “too married for a K1”. Im not here to argue the wording of what constitutes a marriage, I’m aware of that. However, I’m also aware that there exists those denied cases as I’m also sure there many others who managed to bypass the interview with those unofficial ceremonies as your friend did. It all comes down to if you want to take that risk, this is your immigration journey. Im merely informing you of what I have read here on VJ.

 

To add to that, as someone who did K1, I would definitely go with a CR1. They both take 2 years so why not choose the superior option if they take the same amount of time?

Edited June 29, 2023 by powerpuff

[Dan and Akari 43]

20 minutes ago, Mike E said:

Not my first rodeo.

 

You are married per the requirements of the K-1 visa.

 

Your profile shows her in a traditional western bridal gown with head dress. This pic alone is likely to cause I-129F or K-1 to be denied. Or CBP denying entry.

 

So now you have two reasons why your lawyer should not be practicing U.S. immigration law. 
 

There are excellent reasons why Burmese citizens should use Utah County to be married.

 

If her “ED” visa has expired, then she will not be able to interview in Bangkok unless the U.S. embassy in Burma closes.

 

Mike,

 

Thank you for your quick replies. Since you have more than one rodeo under your belt, what is your suggestion?  Our heads were swimming enough with everything we are trying to coordinate.  Now we need to switch to CR1?  Clock starts over?

 

We thought we were doing a good thing by simply having a ceremony where we could celebrate with her family and friends. 😞

[Dan and Akari 43]

28 minutes ago, Dan and Akari said:

Mike,

 

Thank you for your quick replies. Since you have more than one rodeo under your belt, what is your suggestion?  Our heads were swimming enough with everything we are trying to coordinate.  Now we need to switch to CR1?  Clock starts over?

 

We thought we were doing a good thing by simply having a ceremony where we could celebrate with her family and friends. 😞

And what is the benefit of Utah versus just going to a court in Myanmar and signing papers certifying our marriage there?

[SteveInBostonI130 3,432]

28 minutes ago, Dan and Akari said:

And what is the benefit of Utah versus just going to a court in Myanmar and signing papers certifying our marriage there?

Speed.

 

 

[carmel34 3,620]

2 hours ago, Dan and Akari said:

So by the logic that we are considered married, and we switch from K1 to CR1, what are the odds the Us Embassy will accept wedding photos as proof of marriage?  No legal documents, just wedding photos.

 

Again, we could be wrong, and if we are, then we will switch to CR1.

The problem is that you could be considered "married" by the officer conducting the K-1 visa interview, 1-2 years from now, leading to denial.  It is very risky to assume otherwise, as you would at that point have to start over with a CR-1, meaning that an immigrant visa, if approved, would take about 4 years.  You need a marriage certificate to switch to CR-1, by filing an I-130.  Utah Zoom marriage is the fastest way to begin the process, and is acceptable for US immigration.  K-1 is not faster than CR-1 these days.  Many years ago, but not anymore.  In many countries it takes longer.  This is why many are recommending that you get married and file an I-130  petition now.  CR-1 is also superior for many additional reasons after arrival in the US.

Edited June 29, 2023 by carmel34

[Crazy Cat 41,803]

3 hours ago, Dan and Akari said:

Consequently, if Myanmar does not recognize this as a marriage, I don't see how the US Embassy un Myanmar can arbitrarily say a binding marriage exists.  We are confirming again with a Myanmar attorney because we are still not quite 2 months into NOA1 so switching to CR1 at this point would not prove too costly.

I agree with the others who say it appears your ceremony might be interpreted as a marriage.  There are plenty of cases here on VJ which were denied for being "too married for a K-1" by the consulate.  Good luck.  A CR-1 is far superior to a K-1.

 

K-1        
    More expensive than CR-1    
    Requires Adjustment of Status after marriage (expensive and requires a lot of paperwork)    
    Spouse can not leave the US until she/he receives approved Advance Parole (approx 6-8 months)    
    Spouse can not work until she/he receives EAD (approx 6-8 months)    
    Some people have had problems with driver licenses, Social Security cards, leases, bank account during this period    
    Spouse will not receive Green Card for many months after Adjustment of Status is filed.
    A K-1 might be a better choice when 18-21 year old children are immigrating also
    In some situations, marriage can affect certain Home country benefits, making a K-1 a better choice   
    A denied K-1 is sent back to USCIS to expire

   K-1 entrant cannot file for citizenship until after having Green Card for 3 years.
    

CR-1
    Less expensive than K-1    
    No Adjustment of Status(I-485, I-131, I-765) required.    
    Spouse can immediately travel outside the US    
    Spouse is authorized to work immediately upon arrival.    
    Spouse receives Social Security Card and Green Card within 2 or 3 weeks after entering the US    
    Opening a bank account, getting a driver's license, etc. are very easily accomplished with GC, SS card, and passport.
    Spouse has legal permanent Resident status IMMEDIATELY upon entry to US.

   The clock for citizenship filing starts immediately upon entry to the US.
   

 

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by Crazy Cat

[Dashinka 24,476]

3 hours ago, Dan and Akari said:

Thanks for the reply.  Not saying anything is right or wrong.  Again, we are trying to do everything the right way from the start to minimize any delay in an already arduous process.  We were up front with USCIS in our letters accompanying the 129f that we had an engagement celebration.  I personally know someone who did the same thing with their Thai fiance, got approved for K1 by the US embassy in Bangkok and subsequently married in the US.

 

Excerpt from USCIS web site:

Validity of Marriages in the United States or Abroad

Validity of Marriage for Immigration Purposes

The applicant must establish validity of his or her marriage. In general, the legal validity of a marriage is determined by the law of the place where the marriage was celebrated (“place-of-celebration rule”). Under this rule, a marriage is valid for immigration purposes in cases where the marriage is valid under the law of the jurisdiction in which it is performed.

 

Consequently, if Myanmar does not recognize this as a marriage, I don't see how the US Embassy un Myanmar can arbitrarily say a binding marriage exists.  We are confirming again with a Myanmar attorney because we are still not quite 2 months into NOA1 so switching to CR1 at this point would not prove too costly.

 

Also from USCIS web site:

In all cases, the burden is on the applicant to establish that he or she has a valid marriage with his or her U.S. citizen spouse for the required period of time.^[2] In most cases, a marriage certificate is prima facie evidence that the marriage was properly and legally performed....

 

...If an official civil record cannot be produced, secondary evidence may be accepted on a case-by-case basis. An officer has the right to request an original record if there is doubt as to the authenticity of the record.

So by the logic that we are considered married, and we switch from K1 to CR1, what are the odds the Us Embassy will accept wedding photos as proof of marriage?  No legal documents, just wedding photos.

 

Again, we could be wrong, and if we are, then we will switch to CR1.

The part I bolded is key.  In the case of the Utah Zoom ceremony, the wedding is technically taking place in Utah, so it works for immigration once the couple subsequently meet in person after the ceremony.  If you are already together, then you can file the i130 immediately after the marriage certificate is emailed to you.  You can also do a courthouse wedding abroad, but it may take more time as many countries have unusual laws regarding foreigners marrying in their country.

 

Overall, I agree with almost all others, the spousal visa is the way to go, it is a far superior visa, and the K1 no longer has the advantage of speed.  This along with the red flag you mentioned already (unofficial ceremony looking very much like a wedding), may or may not cause you a headache in the future.  I think you would hate to get to a K1 interview only to have a CO state you do not qualify for a K1 and tell you to start over with a spousal visa, and to my knowledge there is no appeal for a K1 denial.

 

Good Luck!

[Mike E 11,739]

2 hours ago, Dan and Akari said:

And what is the benefit of Utah versus just going to a court in Myanmar and signing papers certifying our marriage there?

If you do not share religions, it is technically illegal to marry  in Burma, though this can be worked around. 

 

I’ve been to Burma 7 times.  Each time was pre-coup when there was a “mild” war, and even navigated check points run by ethnic armies during official cease fires. These days there is open rebellion. I  know people who have fled their homes. It is not safe.
 

Utah remote marriage is the only answer. Then file I-130 to get an IR-1 visa.

[manyfudge 285]

2 hours ago, Mike E said:

is not safe.

Where can the Burmese spouse live, while awaiting interview if she has no status in Thailand?