Do these visa categories really contribute to US economy?

[12juillet 0]

Whatever the US government will decide, with the climate change, In the next coming 10/20 years some large population will have to move to avoid some unlivable place…so unless some war… The world will have to adapt and we may become citizen of Earth and not citizen of any regular country.

[mari04 100]

On 6/28/2023 at 11:56 PM, Mike E said:

Diversity brings prosperity. I doubt the diversity visa brings as much prosperity as  O-1, EB-1-3, EB-5. 

It brings more prosperity. These visa categories are frequently used by kids of rich folks from versions countries. Like Russia, for example.

US would be the most successful economy in history, with or without the Diversity Visa.

No it wouldn’t. With 55% of all start-ups founded by 1st generation immigrants (https://www.california-mexicocenter.org/55-of-americas-top-startups-were-founded-by-immigrants-why-wont-congress-let-in-more/) and 30% by Israeli or first generation immigrant Jews (https://jewishbusinessnews.com/2020/06/18/30-percent-of-cnbc-50-disruptor-tech-firms-have-jewish-or-israelis-founders/), it would not. No google, no Facebook, no Apple, nothing. Just Ford and US Steel. 

Wow you went there. 

What does “nearly zero” mean? If you quantify it, I can likely debunk it. 

Let’s see the data.

See above

What does “almost none” mean? If you quantify it, I can likely debunk it. See above

 

[M+K IL 102]

1 hour ago, 12juillet said:

Whatever the US government will decide, with the climate change, In the next coming 10/20 years some large population will have to move to avoid some unlivable place…so unless some war… The world will have to adapt and we may become citizen of Earth and not citizen of any regular country.

The US will need to deal with major internal population movements too, when that happens. eg a lot of Florida will be flooded.

 

The latest estimate is that property is overvalued by hundreds of billions taking into account flood risk (higher taking into account other disasters)

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-02-16/us-housing-market-is-overvalued-by-billions-due-to-ignored-flood-risk

[Mike E 11,739]

1 hour ago, mari04 said:

 

Well that was a hot mess in improper quotation and lack of data. Especially a lack of primary sources. You retreated without comment on Nobels and biotech.

 

You could not quantify your vague terms either.

 

Google was founded by Larry Page: born in the U.S.  His paternal grandparents were Christian.

Facebook was founded by Andrew McCollum: born in the U.S.

 

Apple: Woz, Wayne. Dunno if Jobs was a Buddhist when he founded Apple, but I doubt he was raised in that faith.

 

America didn’t need the diversity visa to win WW1, WW2, put men on the moon, invent microelectronics, or defeat the Soviet Union.

 

You deride U.S. Steel and do not mention HP, Shockley Transistors, which spawned Fairchild, Intel, etc. You conveniently forgot Microsoft.

 

The F-1 student visa has contributed more to the U.S. economy than the DV.

 

I’ve lived in Silicon Valley. Never had a single co-worker in tech who came over on DV. And that includes founders of billion dollar companies.

 

And it is pretty simple why: most immigrant founders in Tech will come from India and China, and citizens of those countries are excluded from DV. And Canadians and most Britons are excluded, two other sources of founders (Musk,  Henderson for example).

DV is a nothing burger compared to other visas. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[randomstairs 303]

11 minutes ago, Mike E said:

Well that was a hot mess in improper quotation and lack of data. Especially a lack of primary sources. You retreated without comment on Nobels and biotech.

 

You could not quantify your vague terms either.

 

Google was founded by Larry Page: born in the U.S.  His paternal grandparents were Christian.

Facebook was founded by Andrew McCollum: born in the U.S.

 

Apple: Woz, Wayne. Dunno if Jobs was a Buddhist when he founded Apple, but I doubt he was raised in that faith.

 

America didn’t need the diversity visa to win WW1, WW2, put men on the moon, invent microelectronics, or defeat the Soviet Union.

 

You deride U.S. Steel and do not mention HP, Shockley Transistors, which spawned Fairchild, Intel, etc. You conveniently forgot Microsoft.

 

The F-1 student visa has contributed more to the U.S. economy than the DV.

 

I’ve lived in Silicon Valley. Never had a single co-worker in tech who came over on DV. And that includes founders of billion dollar companies.

 

And it is pretty simple why: most immigrant founders in Tech will come from India and China, and citizens of those countries are excluded from DV. And Canadians and most Britons are excluded, two other sources of founders (Musk,  Henderson for example).

DV is a nothing burger compared to other visas. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In Machine Learning and other fields this problem is called "exploration vs exploitation." The F1 visas are closer to a local optimum but the DV adds the necessary variability to make sure we don't get stuck in it.

[Mike E 11,739]

2 minutes ago, randomstairs said:

In Machine Learning and other fields this problem is called "exploration vs exploitation." The F1 visas are closer to a local optimum but the DV adds the necessary variability to make sure we don't get stuck in it.

 In 1988, maybe 5 percent of valley tech workers were born in India. 35 years later it is over 50 percent. DV did nothing to slow this, and nor could it.

 

It was inevitable given India’s population, quantity and quality of national and state universities, and English proficiency.

 

DV is immaterial to diversity in tech.

[randomstairs 303]

3 minutes ago, Mike E said:

 In 1988, maybe 5 percent of valley tech workers were born in India. 35 years later it is over 50 percent. DV did nothing to slow this, and nor could it.

 

It was inevitable given India’s population, quantity and quality of national and state universities, and English proficiency.

 

DV is immaterial to diversity in tech.

Probably. But that's hard to know, which is the point of the exploration component. Add some randomness within the tolerance of your system and the robustness will increase.

[TBoneTX 45,259]

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