Do these visa categories really contribute to US economy?

[Swimming_Upstream 13]

8 hours ago, Sm1smom said:

Saying DV selectees are not required to have ANY experience or qualifications clearly demonstrates a bias and a complete lack of understanding of what this visa category entails. Taking due diligence to research this would have provided the much needed background information as against coming out to make some generalized unsubstantiated claim. 
 

A quick google search (with the right parameters) will easily bring up stories of some past DV selectees, their experiences/qualifications prior to being selected, and how they have and continue to contribute to the US economy. Links to a couple of those stories can be found below, by the way:

https://sites.psu.edu/jlia/story-of-menike-a

7 hours ago, African Zealot said:

Most countries have done away with family unification visas except for children and spouses. The USA 🇺🇸 policy is an anachronism. Why should my brother be allowed to migrate here because I did? He has a totally separate life. 
 

Spouses and children should be it. 

diversity-visa-lottery-winner/

 

https://www.npr.org/2018/01/31/582240533/science-teacher-shares-his-journey-after-winning-the-green-card-lottery

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/04/reader-center/diversity-visa-lottery.html

 

https://www.9news.com.au/national/diversity-visa-program-aussies-living-american-dream-after-lottery-win-green-card-exclusive/db3def5d-451c-4d95-a2bc-aa0f5d9ac671

 

As a disclaimer, this is not to say all DV selectees have been high achievers or had illustrious careers/backgrounds like the ones described in the above articles, however the flat out claim about DV not requiring  any qualification or experience whatsoever is unconscionable IMO. 
 

 

Thanks for your response! The success stories above are great. But none of the stories talk about how they needed to demonstrate their qualifications or experience to get those visas. By definition this "lottery" helped them realize their American dream (according to their statements).

[Demise 1,277]

21 minutes ago, Swimming_Upstream said:

The question still remains: Why are there two categories, and why do we need FX? Can't all of them be under one category of F2A? Who decides who gets FX and who does not?

The reason for this is two fold:

Keeps the queue moving if you can just grab use the FX country-cap exempt. Country reserved F2s keep one country from causing backlogs elsewhere. What decides this? Literally what's available and then just random chance. Like you are really complaining about something random and inconsequential.

 

Like let me take a step back - the thing you thought was FX does not exist. For EB-1, 2, 3, 4, 5, DV Lottery, F3, F4 (and for children also F1, F2A, and F2B), a spouse or child would generally just tag along on the same petition as the principal and be charged to that quota. Could the principal move first and start an F2A process for their spouse? Sure but that's a waste of time and really only happens in cases where one can't be married (IR, F1, F2B), where sure the son/daughter would immigrate to US, go marry their SO, and start off an F2A for them.

Edited June 29, 2023 by Demise

[Swimming_Upstream 13]

7 hours ago, beloved_dingo said:

F2B - 21+ children of LPR

F1 - 21+ children of US citizens

These are 2 of the categories listed in your first post. How is a child over 21 "brought up/educated in the U.S."? They wouldn't need a visa to the U.S. at that age if they were raised here.
- They were mostly school aged children when their parents came to the US for the first time, may be on an employment or other temporary visa. By the time their parents got green card, the children are aged out, or became over 21.

 

And are we just ignoring the countries that have education on par or even better than the U.S.?
- Wondering which countries those might be?
 

 

[Ewan 28]

On 6/27/2023 at 6:41 PM, Swimming_Upstream said:

Let's see if and how these groups of people contribute to the US economy. There are some hard truths that need to be discussed.

I came to the US in 2021 on an IR5 parent visa. I am a self-employed, home-based contractor (I brought my work with me) and ALL of my income comes from OUTSIDE the US. On the contrary, ALL of my spending is done INSIDE the US. 
My earnings from foreign clients are paid into my US bank and are used to pay my income tax (the US gets all the taxes on my worldwide earnings), property, utilities, car insurance, food, leisure etc etc.
As well as that...

 

On 6/27/2023 at 6:41 PM, Swimming_Upstream said:

Bringing parents may give some peace of mind to new citizens, but are they not a burden to the healthcare system?

Being self-employed, I have to pay for my own health insurance and whatever part of my medical bills that I owe. I also am paying Social Security taxes but will not be eligible for Medicare until I have been paying in for 10 years, which will mean having to work until at least the age of 70.
Apart from the above, my daughter petitioned me and agreed to be responsible for me financially if I am unable to do so myself. 
So the impression given of immigrant parents as getting everything and giving nothing is way off course for me - and, I'm sure, for many other parents.

Edited June 29, 2023 by Ewan

[Swimming_Upstream 13]

7 hours ago, mam521 said:

If you are indeed Canadian, I'm embarrassed that that flag is on your profile.  These comments come off as ignorant and poorly researched.  You sound butt hurt that you've had to take a number and stand in line like the rest of us.  

 

I originally entered the US on a L1 visa.  I spent 5 years in the US, earning a 6 figure income, bought a house, got involved in my community, enrolled my children in school.  I found my now husband, fell in love and got married.  We opted for a marriage based green card because we wanted the flexibility of me being able to move employers, rather than my employer applying and me having to sign a contract to stay with them for X amount of time.  

 

I reentered the US permanently on an IR-1.  Our immigration journey took over 600 days and because of the long wait, we "graduated" from a CR to an IR category.  I had to uproot my kids from their family home (remember - I bought a house, so contributor to the economy), from their school (the District that my taxes pay for) and leave the country for 18 months so as to prevent a visa overstay.  Luckily, my employer was able to transfer me back to Canada on a temporary basis.  So, get the idea of spousal visas taking no time at all out of your head.  They, like everything else immigration related, take time, patience and money.

 

Additionally, the idea of a spouse not being a contributor to the economy is bunk.  I have always been a top income earner in the US, paid my taxes and contribute through consumerism to the US economy.  I wasn't desperate for a green card.  I lived my life and happened to meet my life partner along the way, no different to a student who might meet their future partner while completing graduate studies might.  You don't put your life on pause because you're studying or working.  

 

Immigrants are massive drivers of the economy, irrespective of whether they come as family members or education vetted individuals.  The system is broken for many reasons - some of the educated people you elude to end up in the US, unable to work because the system is broken and their qualifications aren't recognized here.  Others are blue collar, skilled workers who are perfectly content to do the work "entitled locals" don't want to do because they are willing to hustle and when these people become successful, locals get their noses out of joint because "the immigrants are stealing our jobs". 

 

I'd be more inclined to argue why are people allowed to renew their PR indefinitely if they are in the US - if it's so good, why aren't those people willing to get their citizenship?  

Well, here is the source of "Research": https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/visa-law0/visa-statistics/immigrant-visa-statistics/monthly-immigrant-visa-issuances.html

As I mentioned in previous replies, the time line was for IR1/CR1 applicants who are already in the US, and just needs to do an adjustment of status.
 
Your case is the exception, and for every such case, there are multiple other cases where the applicant actually had no other choice but was forced to use IR1 as a last resort. 

Immigrants are massive drivers of the economy, there is not shred of doubt about that. The point is, how is this visa allocation system working here? Is it a just system, fair to all applicants? Certain groups are not subject to any limitations, quotas, whereas other groups are having to wait indefinitely. 

[Swimming_Upstream 13]

8 hours ago, African Zealot said:

Most countries have done away with family unification visas except for children and spouses. The USA 🇺🇸 policy is an anachronism. Why should my brother be allowed to migrate here because I did? He has a totally separate life. 
 

Spouses and children should be it. 

USA policy is an anachronism is saying it mildly. The system here is intentionally convoluted 🙂

[Swimming_Upstream 13]

33 minutes ago, Demise said:

The reason for this is two fold:

Keeps the queue moving if you can just grab use the FX country-cap exempt. Country reserved F2s keep one country from causing backlogs elsewhere. What decides this? Literally what's available and then just random chance. Like you are really complaining about something random and inconsequential.
- Not clear what you are trying to say here. This random chance is not inconsequential. In the last three months (March to May, 2023 total 19 thousand plus FX visas were issued, where as only 6.9 thousand E3 visas were issued. 

 

Like let me take a step back - the thing you thought was FX does not exist. For EB-1, 2, 3, 4, 5, DV Lottery, F3, F4 (and for children also F1, F2A, and F2B), a spouse or child would generally just tag along on the same petition as the principal and be charged to that quota. Could the principal move first and start an F2A process for their spouse? Sure but that's a waste of time and really only happens in cases where one can't be married (IR, F1, F2B), where sure the son/daughter would immigrate to US, go marry their SO, and start off an F2A for them.

 

[Swimming_Upstream 13]

28 minutes ago, Ewan said:

I came to the US in 2021 on an IR5 parent visa. I am a self-employed, home-based contractor (I brought my work with me) and ALL of my income comes from OUTSIDE the US. On the contrary, ALL of my spending is done INSIDE the US. 
My earnings from foreign clients are paid into my US bank and are used to pay my income tax (the US gets all the taxes on my worldwide earnings), property, utilities, car insurance, food, leisure etc etc.
As well as that...

 

Being self-employed, I have to pay for my own health insurance and whatever part of my medical bills that I owe. I also am paying Social Security taxes but will not be eligible for Medicare until I have been paying in for 10 years, which will mean having to work until at least the age of 70.
Apart from the above, my daughter petitioned me and agreed to be responsible for me financially if I am unable to do so myself. 
So the impression given of immigrant parents as getting everything and giving nothing is way off course for me - and, I'm sure, for many other parents.

Yours is a success story and I greatly appreciate that. But let's consider for a moment those vast majority of IR5 visa recipients, out of about 30 thousand of them in the last three months, who may not have a similar story to share. Are we sure that many of them are not dependent on their children, or on the local/state/federal government in some shape or form?

[Sm1smom 250]

1 hour ago, Swimming_Upstream said:

Thanks for your response! The success stories above are great. But none of the stories talk about how they needed to demonstrate their qualifications or experience to get those visas. By definition this "lottery" helped them realize their American dream (according to their statements).

The success stories weren’t provided for the purpose of showing how they demonstrated their qualifications or experiences to get those visas. If you do a due diligence on how the visa lottery operates, you will know how they had to demonstrate those.
 

The links were provided to show you majority of those folks were actually well educated and highly skilled before migrating to the US as DV selectees - they would not have been eligible for the visas if they were not required to demonstrate that - so it debunks your claim about DV selectees not being required to have ANY experience or qualifications. 
 

Yes they subsequently realized their American dream, like most immigrants (no shame in that). They, in the process have, and are still contributing to the US economy - while your biased post is suggesting they are not. 

Edited June 29, 2023 by Sm1smom

[African Zealot 1,455]

2 hours ago, Swimming_Upstream said:

Agree to all the points you made! But just think for a second, is it fair to 21+ children of US citizens and Permanent Residents, who are having to queue up for 8+ years and still no signs of the line moving? Whereas the DV applicants are cutting into the top of the line and getting their visas processed within a reasonable time frame?
 

Define fairness. This conversation is going nowhere. In my opinion and apparently based on evidence, the diversity from the 50,000 or so diversity applicants is more important and beneficial than bringing your adult children here. Why should we even bring your adult children here? They’re adults! They shouldn’t even be allowed to come at all except visit. Or we may as well bring your entire clan.

 

They are lucky they even have a queue to join. In most countries they would be completely out of luck. The focus of immigration should be on “improving” the citizen stock, not bringing in anyone because they’re related to citizens.

 

I fully support quotas because without quotas some countries will flood the United States. And no I didn’t get here through diversity lottery 😂

 

PS: DV lottery winners are not highly educated, they only have to pass high school level of education. That’s not highly educated in my book or by any objective measure.

Edited June 29, 2023 by African Zealot

[Mike E 11,739]

7 hours ago, mari04 said:

The statement that diversity does not bring economic prosperity is the most ignorant out of all.

Diversity brings prosperity. I doubt the diversity visa brings as much prosperity as  O-1, EB-1-3, EB-5. 

 

US would be the most successful economy in history, with or without the Diversity Visa.

 

7 hours ago, mari04 said:

How many technical or biotech companies are started by white Christian Americans in US?

Wow you went there. 

7 hours ago, mari04 said:

Nearly zero

What does “nearly zero” mean? If you quantify it, I can likely debunk it. 

7 hours ago, mari04 said:

Most of the companies are started by 1st or 2nd generation immigrants.

Let’s see the data.

 

7 hours ago, mari04 said:

What % of US Nobel Prize laureates are white American Christians? Almost none. 

What does “almost none” mean? If you quantify it, I can likely debunk it. 

[Demise 1,277]

2 hours ago, Swimming_Upstream said:

Not clear what you are trying to say here. This random chance is not inconsequential. In the last three months (March to May, 2023 total 19 thousand plus FX visas were issued, where as only 6.9 thousand E3 visas were issued. 

Okay I think you are really mis-naming some things here. Explain to me in your own words that you understand "FX" to be.

 

 

[EmilyW 1,434]

6 hours ago, Swimming_Upstream said:

Agree to all the points you made! But just think for a second, is it fair to 21+ children of US citizens and Permanent Residents, who are having to queue up for 8+ years and still no signs of the line moving? Whereas the DV applicants are cutting into the top of the line and getting their visas processed within a reasonable time frame?
 

Cutting how?  We are a completely different category of immigrants and we cut nothing.

 

You might not be aware that the DV Lottery has a start and finish date each year.  If we don't get our visas by the cut off date for the year, that's it.  It's over.  Our applications don't get held over.  We have to re-enter the lottery, hope we get another chance, and go through the process all over again.  There is a reason why authorities hustle through our applications: because there is a cut off.

 

And, just so you know, the DV is not quick.  We applied in October 2013.  We found out in May 2014 that we had 'won'.  It was April 2015 before we interviewed at the consulate.  And it was early 2016 when we finally moved.  Ours was not an unusual timeframe.  Nearly three years in total.

 

[Redro 4,611]

@Swimming_Upstream... talking about "jumping the line" but are you aware the only visas that have "premium processing" are employment based visas?

https://www.uscis.gov/forms/all-forms/how-do-i-request-premium-processing

Not family based visas... 

And you appear to only be speaking about adjusting status not consular processing. 

While I find this topic interesting. I can't have a discussion with someone who doesn't understand the basics of US immigration. 

 

 

[mam521 2,058]

9 hours ago, Swimming_Upstream said:

As I mentioned in previous replies, the time line was for IR1/CR1 applicants who are already in the US, and just needs to do an adjustment of status.
 
Your case is the exception, and for every such case, there are multiple other cases where the applicant actually had no other choice but was forced to use IR1 as a last resort. 

"Just" needs to do AOS?  AOS isn't taking 9mo like you seem to think. 

 

And as the tread rolls on, you keep saying "your case is an exception".  How are all of these cases exceptional?  They are the reality and people aren't using CR as a last resort because the burden of proof that those people entered the marriage in good faith is on them.