Do these visa categories really contribute to US economy?

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4 hours ago, Redro said:

Am I understanding your question correctly? 

So, you are comparing:

1. IR5 - Parents of US citizens

2. DV - Diversity Visa

3. IR1 - Spouse of US citizens

4. FX - Spouse of lawful permanent residents (exempt from country quota limitations)

5. F4 - Siblings of US citizens

TO

A. IR2 - Children of US citizens

B. F2B - 21+ children of LPR

C. F1 - 21+ children of US citizens

D. E2, E3 - Employment based

And list number ONE is  most subscribed (and that is bad) but applicants from list number TWO should be prioritized?

 

Yes. There is good reason for it, if you compare the current priority dates in visa bulletin, and compare the number of people getting their visas processed between the two groups.

Edited June 28, 2023 by Swimming_Upstream

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4 hours ago, Crazy Cat said:

Please show me the data to support that statement.  

An extensive research is not done on the topic, but that's from the experience of foreign student communities. A typical Post graduate foreign student will start work on OPT, and hopefully convince the employer to apply for H1b on their behalf. H1b is/was subject to annual lottery, so it's a hit or miss. Even if they get it for 3 years, they have to convince the employer again to sponsor them for green card. Unless the employer is a large corporation (Google, Apple, Microsoft etc.) it's hard to get them to sponsor for an average candidate. Once the OPT or H1b time limit is over, their out of luck...

[Boiler 45,448]

H1b should never have been part of the immigrant process but now it is it also needs to be Country capped.

[Crazy Cat 41,813]

7 minutes ago, Swimming_Upstream said:

An extensive research is not done on the topic, but that's from the experience of foreign student communities. A typical Post graduate foreign student will start work on OPT, and hopefully convince the employer to apply for H1b on their behalf. H1b is/was subject to annual lottery, so it's a hit or miss. Even if they get it for 3 years, they have to convince the employer again to sponsor them for green card. Unless the employer is a large corporation (Google, Apple, Microsoft etc.) it's hard to get them to sponsor for an average candidate. Once the OPT or H1b time limit is over, their out of luck...

How does that, in any way, support the statement that "Typically people become so frustrated from either (1) not getting sponsorship from their employers, or (2) waiting for too long in one of the other categories, that they are left with no other choice but to go for IR1/CR1. ?

Edited June 28, 2023 by Crazy Cat

[beloved_dingo 1,976]

What in tarnation...

 

First of all, "unskilled" workers are just as important to the economy as "skilled" workers. If companies were full of C Suite executives and had no entry level/blue collar positions, they'd fail pretty fast. 

 

Next, you can't categorize whether someone will "benefit" the American economy just based on their immigration category, but even if you could, are you saying that a woman who immigrates through marriage and becomes a stay at home mom while her spouse works, has no value? That, because she does not have a job, she should have less priority even though she is the spouse of a U.S. Citizen? 

 

Does an illegal immigrant who works and pays taxes have more value than the parent of a U.S. Citizen who immigrates legally and retires?

 

The value of a person, immigrant or not, should not be tied directly to their skills or productivity. If it is, that leads down an ugly road. 

Edited June 28, 2023 by beloved_dingo

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7 hours ago, Lemonslice said:

Some might be "unqualified" workers, whatever that means in your opinion... However, a lot of job postings around here are for level entry positions, so, seems like there's a need for workers with all levels of qualification. 

 

...

Part of my personal opinion is that I don't think everything has to be seen through economics glasses. Rest of my opinion, I'll keep to myself.

Current system is such that applicants in the first group of categories (Parents, DV, exempt Spouses) are not required to have ANY experience or qualifications, but their visas are getting processed much faster than others. 

Edited June 28, 2023 by Swimming_Upstream

[Redro 4,611]

8 minutes ago, Swimming_Upstream said:

Current system is such that applicants in the first group of categories (Parents, DV, Spouses (exempt), Siblings) are not required to have ANY experience or qualifications, but their visas are getting processed much faster than others. 

You are correct to enter DV lottery you don’t have to show any education or work experience but when it comes to winning and moving to the US… many people do not always qualify to enter. 
 

And you should speak to DV lottery winners who were unable to apply for a visa because their number was never current or the number of DV winners who were not able to enter because the consulates did a bad job and are part of the class action lawsuit. 

Edited June 28, 2023 by Redro

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31 minutes ago, beloved_dingo said:

First of all, "unskilled" workers are just as important to the economy as "skilled" workers. If companies were full of C Suite executives and had no entry level/blue collar positions, they'd fail pretty fast. 
- Agreed, but do you need to invite entry level / blue collar candidates to apply for green card and then process their applications at a much faster rate?

 

Next, you can't categorize whether someone will "benefit" the American economy just based on their immigration category, but even if you could, are you saying that a woman who immigrates through marriage and becomes a stay at home mom while her spouse works, has no value? That, because she does not have a job, she should have less priority even though she is the spouse of a U.S. Citizen? 
- The point was to find out why the "Exempt" spouse categories were treated separately on "Fast Track".

 

Does an illegal immigrant who works and pays taxes have more value than the parent of a U.S. Citizen who immigrates legally and retires?
- No they do not. An immigrant can work and pay taxes legally but don't have to have a green card for that. 

 

The value of a person, immigrant or not, should not be tied directly to their skills or productivity. If it is, that leads down an ugly road. 
- The purpose is to point out the injustices being done to certain categories of visa applicants (A-D) by denying them a timely processing, whereas certain other categories (1-4) are not facing restrictions like numerical limit or country limit.

 

Edited June 28, 2023 by Swimming_Upstream

[beloved_dingo 1,976]

23 minutes ago, Swimming_Upstream said:

Current system is such that applicants in the first group of categories (Parents, DV, exempt Spouses) are not required to have ANY experience or qualifications, but their visas are getting processed much faster than others. 

Why should parents or spouses of U.S. Citizens need "experience of qualifications" to immigrate?

 

You seem to assume that most people with no education who immigrate to the U.S. will become some kind of freeloader, living off the backs of others. It is a fact that many immigrants come here and become experienced, qualified and educated in the U.S. after immigrating because the U.S. offers those opportunities (that perhaps their home country does not). 

 

Also, having experience or qualifications before immigrating to the U.S. does not mean that the experience carries over or that the immigrant will utilize their prior work/education in the U.S. Perhaps the stay at home mom in the prior scenario is a doctor in her home country, but is no longer a doctor in the U.S. But by your logic, she "deserved" to immigrate because of her qualifications over someone else less skilled, even though her education/skills are not being put to use on U.S. soil.

[beloved_dingo 1,976]

6 minutes ago, Swimming_Upstream said:

 

If you are only taking issue with the timing/restrictions of certain visas, why do the skills and/or benefit to the U.S. economy matter? Children of U.S. citizens/LPRs are not more likely to be skilled/educated/whatever than spouses, siblings, or parents. 

Edited June 28, 2023 by beloved_dingo

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40 minutes ago, Swimming_Upstream said:

Current system is such that applicants in the first group of categories (Parents, DV, exempt Spouses) are not required to have ANY experience or qualifications, but their visas are getting processed much faster than others. 

Isn’t sibling of US citizens category the longest waiting time? 
why are they in the first group? 
The only DV and E2 and E3 and the only visa categories you mention that require experience or qualifications… So, 7 out of the 10 visas you mentioned do not require experience or qualifications and 3 come from the second group and 4 come from the first group. 
Why is the second group superior to the first group? 

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1 hour ago, Crazy Cat said:

How does that, in any way, support the statement that "Typically people become so frustrated from either (1) not getting sponsorship from their employers, or (2) waiting for too long in one of the other categories, that they are left with no other choice but to go for IR1/CR1. ?

So that's the back story: once those students are unable to get sponsorship from their employers, and not able extend their stay, they face deportation. For sure, some students leave. But those desperate to stay in the US resort to IR1/CR1, or look for other options.
And for "waiting too long in other categories", F1, F2B are some of the examples. The situation for them is getting worse by the month, their priority dates are not moving for 2+ years and in some cases are actually going backwards. Imagine their frustration...

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Just now, Swimming_Upstream said:

So that's the back story: once those students are unable to get sponsorship from their employers, and not able extend their stay, they face deportation. For sure, some students leave. But those desperate to stay in the US resort to IR1/CR1, or look for other options.
And for "waiting too long in other categories", F1, F2B are some of the examples. The situation for them is getting worse by the month, their priority dates are not moving for 2+ years and in some cases are actually going backwards. Imagine their frustration...

So, you’re saying all F1 students who marry a USC are committing immigration fraud? They are not marrying for love but because they want to stay in the US?

If you are aware of this- you should report it. VJ does not condone immigrant fraud and they have who to contact on the main page. 

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6 minutes ago, Swimming_Upstream said:

So that's the back story: once those students are unable to get sponsorship from their employers, and not able extend their stay, they face deportation. For sure, some students leave. But those desperate to stay in the US resort to IR1/CR1, or look for other options.
And for "waiting too long in other categories", F1, F2B are some of the examples. The situation for them is getting worse by the month, their priority dates are not moving for 2+ years and in some cases are actually going backwards. Imagine their frustration...

In addition: F1 visa is a nonimmigrant visa. Students are expected to go back to their home country after the complete their studies. Some are lucky enough to find sponsors for jobs but it is not a right for a student to enter the student on a certain path to employment in the US or permanent residency. 

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8 minutes ago, Redro said:

So, you’re saying all F1 students who marry a USC are committing immigration fraud? They are not marrying for love but because they want to stay in the US?

If you are aware of this- you should report it. VJ does not condone immigrant fraud and they have who to contact on the main page. 

Good to know, thanks! So we are rest assured that there is no immigration fraud going on whatsoever in the US system.