Do these visa categories really contribute to US economy?

[Mike E 11,739]

3 minutes ago, mam521 said:

If you are indeed Canadian, I'm embarrassed that that flag is on your profile. 

I am not, as OP has raised some good points, and besides which back in Canada OP would be sanctioned for hate speech, even though Canada, unlike the U.S., uses merit based immigration.

 

 I am happy OP has the freedom to express surprisingly controversial views.

 

 The attacks on OP are either on the

 

*  merits on the argument: some types of immigrants do not benefit the economy, or

 

* the basis of the argument:  we should not use immigration policy to improve the economy

 

With social security and medicare due to take a hair cut in 10 years, I trust those arguing the latter have in plan a solution that does not involve raiding my assets. As  I am retired living in the 10 percent or less tax bracket, I am good with their apparent plans to raise their own taxes so that I get my full SS and Medicare benefits

 

As to the former, one can nit pick all they want about specifics of OP’s targets for priority and de-priority but most older  and SAHPs immigrants do not help the economy. My wife for one. There is no need for her to work and she does not. And I get to enjoy her company. It does not offend me.

[EmilyW 1,434]

Good thing then, that DV Lottery recipients do help the economy, because we have no choice but to make the most of opportunity.  We landed on a cold night with very little besides suitcases and money in the bank, and definitely no welcoming committee.   DV recipients have to prove they have the education, means, health and clean criminal record before they are granted a visa.  Not sure the education part is covered with familial visas.  Indeed, sure it is not.

 

We don't have the benefit of having a spouse whose financial situation allows us to not contribute economically.  If DV Lottery recipients were as reliant on US citizens as chain immigration is, the program would end in a heartbeat.

 

Thankfully, the US welcomes people like me and my family.  A huge - potentially unique - advantage over most, if not all, countries.

Edited June 28, 2023 by EmilyW

[PeachesMagee 62]

I love to read the posts on this forum, and rarely post...but here I go.

 

I'm a CR1 beneficiary, and the bread winner in my home. My wife doesn't work, and is trying to get her disability.

I didn't need to come to the US and get my citizenship, as I had a great job for the federal government, a beautiful 100 year old home, and a vehicle. Not to mention my family is in Canada.

But love makes us do strange things, like uprooting our lives and moving countries.

Had I not moved to the US, my wife would be a burden of the state, maybe on assistance, and probably living in a very small apartment.

Instead, I have a great job, a beautiful 2 bedroom condo, 2 cars, and two cats.

Had I stayed in Canada, I'd still be successful (job, home, vehicle).

Was my path here a shortcut? Heck no. It took me about 5 years from start to finish, but I wouldn't trade it for the world.

 

As an F1 visa holder, if you fell in love with an American, would you not try to stay in the US? Some might argue that you should have to go home, and start from scratch (K1 or CR1), or you'd also be taking a shortcut to immigrate.

Me...I'd just be happy for you.

 

Edited June 28, 2023 by PeachesMagee

[mari04 100]

DV lottery assures diversity, which is absolutely necessary to retain world economic leadership. The statement that diversity does not bring economic prosperity is the most ignorant out of all. How many technical or biotech companies are started by white Christian Americans in US? Nearly zero. Most of the companies are started by 1st or 2nd generation immigrants. What % of US Nobel Prize laureates are white American Christians? Almost none. THINK. 

[Redro 4,611]

2 hours ago, Mike E said:

 

 I am happy OP has the freedom to express surprisingly controversial views.

I wouldn’t call it controversial. I’d call it ill-informed. The belief the Diversity Visa doesn’t have a cap and Diversity Visa applicants do not have to be educated being the most egregiously incorrect statement. 
And then staying adult brothers and sister of US citizens have one of the fastest processing times… 

I’m mostly trying to understand where OP got their “facts”. 

[TBoneTX 45,259]

7 hours ago, Demise said:

most people get their citizenship by being born here, now look at somewhere like Kentucky and tell me that's a good idea.

HILLBILLY VASECTOMY

A Kentucky couple, both rednecks, had 9 children.  They went to the doctor to see about getting the husband "fixed."

The doctor gladly started the required procedure and asked them what finally caused them to make the decision -- why, after 9 children, would they do this?

The husband replied that they had read in a recent newspaper article that one out of every ten children born in the United States was Mexican, and he and his wife did not want to risk having a Mexican baby, because neither of them spoke Spanish.

 

[Demise 1,277]

12 minutes ago, TBoneTX said:

HILLBILLY VASECTOMY

A Kentucky couple, both rednecks, had 9 children.  They went to the doctor to see about getting the husband "fixed."

The doctor gladly started the required procedure and asked them what finally caused them to make the decision -- why, after 9 children, would they do this?

The husband replied that they had read in a recent newspaper article that one out of every ten children born in the United States was Mexican, and he and his wife did not want to risk having a Mexican baby, because neither of them spoke Spanish.

 

You know, murder cases frequently go cold there. There's no dental records and all the DNA matches.

[TBoneTX 45,259]

4 hours ago, EmilyW said:

the US welcomes people like me and my family

Two young immigrants have just arrived at New York City by boat.  They eagerly look at the buildings and the sights, ready to enjoy the U.S.  One immigrant says to the other, "I hear that the people of this country actually eat dogs."

"Odd," his companion replies, "but, if we shall live in America, we ought to do as the Americans do."  Nodding emphatically, the first immigrant points to a hot-dog vendor, and they both walk toward the cart.

"Two dogs, please," says one.  The vendor, pleased to oblige, wraps each hot dog in foil and hands them over the counter.  The excited boys hurry over to a bench and begin to unwrap their "dogs."

The first immigrant opens his foil, sees the "dog," and begins to blush.  Staring at it for a moment, he leans over to the other immigrant and whispers cautiously, "What part did you get?"

 

[Swimming_Upstream 13]

3 hours ago, Redro said:

I wouldn’t call it controversial. I’d call it ill-informed. The belief the Diversity Visa doesn’t have a cap
- Cap on Diversity visa was not mentioned!

and Diversity Visa applicants do not have to be educated
- Nothing to do with education of Diversity visa applicants!

being the most egregiously incorrect statement. 
And then staying adult brothers and sister of US citizens have one of the fastest processing times…
- Also not stated. It was listed as one of the groups that are getting higher number of visas compared to F1, F2B, E2, E3 etc.

 

I’m mostly trying to understand where OP got their “facts”. 
- Here is the source of all immigrant visas issued, by month: https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/visa-law0/visa-statistics/immigrant-visa-statistics/monthly-immigrant-visa-issuances.html

And here is the summary for the last three months:

 

[Swimming_Upstream 13]

4 hours ago, mari04 said:

DV lottery assures diversity, which is absolutely necessary to retain world economic leadership. The statement that diversity does not bring economic prosperity is the most ignorant out of all.
- The logic stated in the original post is being flipped here. What was originally mentioned in one of the follow ups is that there is no guarantee that diversity will definitely improve the economy. It may still do so, but DV is not the only source of diversity in the US. Children of LPR's, employment based applicants all come from diverse background.

How many technical or biotech companies are started by white Christian Americans in US? Nearly zero. Most of the companies are started by 1st or 2nd generation immigrants. What % of US Nobel Prize laureates are white American Christians? Almost none. THINK. 
- So are all the inventors and entrepreneurs coming from Diversity visa background? I would bet that they actually were students at US universities first, then switched to employment visas and then finally to green card.
 

 

[Swimming_Upstream 13]

5 hours ago, PeachesMagee said:

I love to read the posts on this forum, and rarely post...but here I go.

 

I'm a CR1 beneficiary, and the bread winner in my home. My wife doesn't work, and is trying to get her disability.

I didn't need to come to the US and get my citizenship, as I had a great job for the federal government, a beautiful 100 year old home, and a vehicle. Not to mention my family is in Canada.

But love makes us do strange things, like uprooting our lives and moving countries.

Had I not moved to the US, my wife would be a burden of the state, maybe on assistance, and probably living in a very small apartment.

Instead, I have a great job, a beautiful 2 bedroom condo, 2 cars, and two cats.

Had I stayed in Canada, I'd still be successful (job, home, vehicle).

Was my path here a shortcut? Heck no. It took me about 5 years from start to finish, but I wouldn't trade it for the world.

 

As an F1 visa holder, if you fell in love with an American, would you not try to stay in the US? Some might argue that you should have to go home, and start from scratch (K1 or CR1), or you'd also be taking a shortcut to immigrate.

Me...I'd just be happy for you.

 

I am happy for you as well. You are definitely one of the success stories. But what's happening with a lot of other IR1 cases? It's NOT those applicants fault that they are taking advantage of the system. They are actually being forced to take advantage of IR1/CR1. Why? Because all other legal avenues for them are jammed up by country quotas, numerical limits etc. The wait lists for them are getting longer every year, and the priority dates are retrogressing (going backwards!) in some cases. 

[Swimming_Upstream 13]

5 hours ago, EmilyW said:

Good thing then, that DV Lottery recipients do help the economy, because we have no choice but to make the most of opportunity.  We landed on a cold night with very little besides suitcases and money in the bank, and definitely no welcoming committee.   DV recipients have to prove they have the education, means, health and clean criminal record before they are granted a visa.  Not sure the education part is covered with familial visas.  Indeed, sure it is not.

 

We don't have the benefit of having a spouse whose financial situation allows us to not contribute economically.  If DV Lottery recipients were as reliant on US citizens as chain immigration is, the program would end in a heartbeat.

 

Thankfully, the US welcomes people like me and my family.  A huge - potentially unique - advantage over most, if not all, countries.

Agree to all the points you made! But just think for a second, is it fair to 21+ children of US citizens and Permanent Residents, who are having to queue up for 8+ years and still no signs of the line moving? Whereas the DV applicants are cutting into the top of the line and getting their visas processed within a reasonable time frame?
 

[Swimming_Upstream 13]

9 hours ago, Lil bear said:

My only comment on this thread

 

The health wellbeing and quality of life of individual, families, communities and the nation cannot be measured by an economic equation 😓

 

Ah, happiness. Finland, Denmark, Iceland have no way to compete with USA.

[Swimming_Upstream 13]

9 hours ago, JeanneAdil said:

every spouse CR1/IR1  i know is working, paying taxes,  some buying a house ,   and helping family back home which should count to help the world's poverty

IR1 fast / by definition an IR1 takes over 2 years /mine took 5,,  Nordeines'  took 7  and a officer for immigration waited 5 years with 13 trips to get her husband here
- The time line of 9 - 12 months for IR1 was meant for those applicants who are already in the US on a different temp visa. 

and yeah,  people divorce but many USC's divorce other USC's  /there is no handbook for marriage and no guarantee's

IR5?  if USC can afford to sponsor family ,  then great  

they use medicaid????   illegals can get and use medicaid /legal  sponsorship means you have to  show you have researched health care costs and are able to purchase a plan

 

dv lottery is an agreement the US government has with countries so ask your Congresspeople how this benefits the US

 

even illegals contribute to the US work system working the chicken slaughter houses (here) and as  migrant farm workers 

ask a USC whose out of work if he /she would do this
- All good points, but why should we invite migrant farm workers to apply for green card, and then hurry up and process their applications faster, whereby people in other categories are waiting longer than 8 years...

 

My rant!    the K1 only needs $18,310 for 2 and how do 2 people live on that especially in NYC or Miami?

 

[Swimming_Upstream 13]

8 hours ago, Demise said:

You severely misunderstand something. FX and F2A are the same thing. It's just that 75% of those numbers are exempt from per country quotas (not numerical limitations) and can be charged to any country (FX), while the other 25% fall under the 7.1% rule (F2). In all reality the only reason you'd even know it exists is because F2A for Mexico sometimes gets a tiny backlog at the tail end of the FY. But other than that, no you can't go into the consulate or USCIS and tell them give me an F21/F26 and not an FX1/FX6, they will give you whatever is available.

- The question still remains: Why are there two categories, and why do we need FX? Can't all of them be under one category of F2A? Who decides who gets FX and who does not?
 

Now wait until I tell you that most people get their citizenship by being born here, now look at somewhere like Kentucky and tell me that's a good idea.