Do these visa categories really contribute to US economy?

[Swimming_Upstream 13]

36 minutes ago, beloved_dingo said:

If you are only taking issue with the timing/restrictions of certain visas, why do the skills and/or benefit to the U.S. economy matter? Children of U.S. citizens/LPRs are not more likely to be skilled/educated/whatever than spouses, siblings, or parents. 

In general, Children of US citizens/LPR's are being brought up/educated in the US, hence more likelihood of being successful in the US. Other groups may or may not educate/train themselves.

[Mike E 11,739]

18 hours ago, Swimming_Upstream said:

So which groups should ideally get the priorities?

 

A. IR2 - Children of US citizens

B. F2B - 21+ children of LPR

C. F1 - 21+ children of US citizens

D. E2, E3 - Employment based

Agreed. A lens for the long term health of the U.S. economy is the sustainability of Social Security and Medicare. As the population ages SS and Medicare face pressure because they are paid from payroll taxes on workers. There are fewer workers per retiree than when these systems were invented.

 

Categories A-D, in reverse order, should be prioritized if we want SS and Medicare to continue without cuts to benefits or hikes in taxes. It is past time, to remove the numerical limits of EB2, EB3, F1, F2B.

[Lil bear 4,181]

6 hours ago, Redro said:

Am I understanding your question correctly? 

So, you are comparing:

1. IR5 - Parents of US citizens

2. DV - Diversity Visa

3. IR1 - Spouse of US citizens

4. FX - Spouse of lawful permanent residents (exempt from country quota limitations)

5. F4 - Siblings of US citizens

TO

A. IR2 - Children of US citizens

B. F2B - 21+ children of LPR

C. F1 - 21+ children of US citizens

D. E2, E3 - Employment based

And list number ONE is  most subscribed (and that is bad) but applicants from list number TWO should be prioritized?

 

12 hours ago, OldUser said:

 

My only comment on this thread

 

The health wellbeing and quality of life of individual, families, communities and the nation cannot be measured by an economic equation 😓

 

Edited June 28, 2023 by Lil bear

[JeanneAdil 6,489]

every spouse CR1/IR1  i know is working, paying taxes,  some buying a house ,   and helping family back home which should count to help the world's poverty

IR1 fast / by definition an IR1 takes over 2 years /mine took 5,,  Nordeines'  took 7  and a officer for immigration waited 5 years with 13 trips to get her husband here

and yeah,  people divorce but many USC's divorce other USC's  /there is no handbook for marriage and no guarantee's

IR5?  if USC can afford to sponsor family ,  then great  

they use medicaid????   illegals can get and use medicaid /legal  sponsorship means you have to  show you have researched health care costs and are able to purchase a plan

 

dv lottery is an agreement the US government has with countries so ask your Congresspeople how this benefits the US

 

even illegals contribute to the US work system working the chicken slaughter houses (here) and as  migrant farm workers 

ask a USC whose out of work if he /she would do this

 

My rant!    the K1 only needs $18,310 for 2 and how do 2 people live on that especially in NYC or Miami?

[Demise 1,277]

20 hours ago, Swimming_Upstream said:

And finally FX. Regular applicants of green cards typically include their Spouses and children under various employment and other categories, including F2A. But this FX is a special category for the spouses who are considered "Exempt". Why should some spouses be exempt from numerical limitations when vast majorities are not?

You severely misunderstand something. FX and F2A are the same thing. It's just that 75% of those numbers are exempt from per country quotas (not numerical limitations) and can be charged to any country (FX), while the other 25% fall under the 7.1% rule (F2). In all reality the only reason you'd even know it exists is because F2A for Mexico sometimes gets a tiny backlog at the tail end of the FY. But other than that, no you can't go into the consulate or USCIS and tell them give me an F21/F26 and not an FX1/FX6, they will give you whatever is available.

 

Now wait until I tell you that most people get their citizenship by being born here, now look at somewhere like Kentucky and tell me that's a good idea.

Edited June 28, 2023 by Demise

[EmilyW 1,434]

To the OP...

 

DV winner here.

 

Yes, brought diversity.  Mixed race family from a country that does not typically immigrate to the US (Australia).

 

Yes, brought ambition.  Got a job within weeks and now pay close to six figures in federal and state taxes.  No sponsor needed.

 

Yes, assimilated.  Became a citizen in 2021.  My older child is starting college in the Fall on full scholarship.

 

Yes, brought assets.  Around $2m in liquid assets that we used to buy homes (including investment properties), and set ourselves up.  

 

If you think that my, or my family's contribution is lacking, have at it.  DV recipients very rarely have anchors in the US, and we get to hustle for our opportunity.   

 

That's the whole point of the DV Lottery - to import folks with a hunger for success, and not because we need MeeMaw (and the whole clan) here with us.

 

Edited June 28, 2023 by EmilyW

[Sm1smom 250]

2 hours ago, Swimming_Upstream said:

Current system is such that applicants in the first group of categories (Parents, DV, exempt Spouses) are not required to have ANY experience or qualifications, but their visas are getting processed much faster than others. 

Saying DV selectees are not required to have ANY experience or qualifications clearly demonstrates a bias and a complete lack of understanding of what this visa category entails. Taking due diligence to research this would have provided the much needed background information as against coming out to make some generalized unsubstantiated claim. 
 

A quick google search (with the right parameters) will easily bring up stories of some past DV selectees, their experiences/qualifications prior to being selected, and how they have and continue to contribute to the US economy. Links to a couple of those stories can be found below, by the way:

https://sites.psu.edu/jlia/story-of-menike-a-diversity-visa-lottery-winner/

 

https://www.npr.org/2018/01/31/582240533/science-teacher-shares-his-journey-after-winning-the-green-card-lottery

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/04/reader-center/diversity-visa-lottery.html

 

https://www.9news.com.au/national/diversity-visa-program-aussies-living-american-dream-after-lottery-win-green-card-exclusive/db3def5d-451c-4d95-a2bc-aa0f5d9ac671

 

As a disclaimer, this is not to say all DV selectees have been high achievers or had illustrious careers/backgrounds like the ones described in the above articles, however the flat out claim about DV not requiring  any qualification or experience whatsoever is unconscionable IMO. 
 

 

[Sm1smom 250]

1 hour ago, JeanneAdil said:

 

dv lottery is an agreement the US government has with countries so ask your Congresspeople how this benefits the US

 

DV lottery is NOT an agreement the US government has the other countries. Absolutely NOT! Some examples of how DV has benefited the US economy are listed in my post above ^^ and the one before it by @EmilyW  
 

The program is solely a US government decision aimed at diversifying the immigration population in the US by selecting applicants from countries with low number of immigrants in the previous five years. 

 

[SalishSea 17,801]

4 hours ago, beloved_dingo said:

What in tarnation...

 

First of all, "unskilled" workers are just as important to the economy as "skilled" workers. If companies were full of C Suite executives and had no entry level/blue collar positions, they'd fail pretty fast. 

 

Next, you can't categorize whether someone will "benefit" the American economy just based on their immigration category, but even if you could, are you saying that a woman who immigrates through marriage and becomes a stay at home mom while her spouse works, has no value? That, because she does not have a job, she should have less priority even though she is the spouse of a U.S. Citizen? 

 

Does an illegal immigrant who works and pays taxes have more value than the parent of a U.S. Citizen who immigrates legally and retires?

 

The value of a person, immigrant or not, should not be tied directly to their skills or productivity. If it is, that leads down an ugly road. 

Best post in this thread.

 

There is no fair way to quantify the value of a person.  

[randomstairs 303]

21 hours ago, Swimming_Upstream said:

Let's see if and how these groups of people contribute to the US economy.

While a strong economy is key to a strong society, it's not necessarily the only aspect that matters. The right of US citizens to sponsor their spouses and parents is a part of their right of pursuit of happiness. Family-based immigration is just that - family-based. The DV lottery insures that the door remains ajar for immigrants from less represented countries, and its economic value can be disputed, but given that it requires a minimal education and/or experience, and that it probably mostly attracts the young, I suspect that it's beneficial. 

 

I say this as someone who took the F1 --> H1B --> EB2-NIW path, and who most likely will never sponsor an immigrant. But as (now) a citizen, I'd like to retain that right. 

 

That said, I absolutely agree that limitations on EB categories should be abolished and that these categories be given higher priority. 

[beloved_dingo 1,976]

3 hours ago, Swimming_Upstream said:

In general, Children of US citizens/LPR's are being brought up/educated in the US, hence more likelihood of being successful in the US. Other groups may or may not educate/train themselves.

F2B - 21+ children of LPR

F1 - 21+ children of US citizens

These are 2 of the categories listed in your first post. How is a child over 21 "brought up/educated in the U.S."? They wouldn't need a visa to the U.S. at that age if they were raised here.

 

And are we just ignoring the countries that have education on par or even better than the U.S.?

Edited June 28, 2023 by beloved_dingo

[mam521 2,058]

If you are indeed Canadian, I'm embarrassed that that flag is on your profile.  These comments come off as ignorant and poorly researched.  You sound butt hurt that you've had to take a number and stand in line like the rest of us.  

 

I originally entered the US on a L1 visa.  I spent 5 years in the US, earning a 6 figure income, bought a house, got involved in my community, enrolled my children in school.  I found my now husband, fell in love and got married.  We opted for a marriage based green card because we wanted the flexibility of me being able to move employers, rather than my employer applying and me having to sign a contract to stay with them for X amount of time.  

 

I reentered the US permanently on an IR-1.  Our immigration journey took over 600 days and because of the long wait, we "graduated" from a CR to an IR category.  I had to uproot my kids from their family home (remember - I bought a house, so contributor to the economy), from their school (the District that my taxes pay for) and leave the country for 18 months so as to prevent a visa overstay.  Luckily, my employer was able to transfer me back to Canada on a temporary basis.  So, get the idea of spousal visas taking no time at all out of your head.  They, like everything else immigration related, take time, patience and money.

 

Additionally, the idea of a spouse not being a contributor to the economy is bunk.  I have always been a top income earner in the US, paid my taxes and contribute through consumerism to the US economy.  I wasn't desperate for a green card.  I lived my life and happened to meet my life partner along the way, no different to a student who might meet their future partner while completing graduate studies might.  You don't put your life on pause because you're studying or working.  

 

Immigrants are massive drivers of the economy, irrespective of whether they come as family members or education vetted individuals.  The system is broken for many reasons - some of the educated people you elude to end up in the US, unable to work because the system is broken and their qualifications aren't recognized here.  Others are blue collar, skilled workers who are perfectly content to do the work "entitled locals" don't want to do because they are willing to hustle and when these people become successful, locals get their noses out of joint because "the immigrants are stealing our jobs". 

 

I'd be more inclined to argue why are people allowed to renew their PR indefinitely if they are in the US - if it's so good, why aren't those people willing to get their citizenship?  

[Mike E 11,739]

1 minute ago, beloved_dingo said:

How is a child over 21 "brought up/educated in the U.S."? 

Dependents of H1-B to EB converts who aged out.

[Caligirl1 212]

19 hours ago, Swimming_Upstream said:

Thanks for your feedback!
IR5 - Parents: On average 10 thousand parents are getting their Green cards per month for the last few months. How many can afford to pay for private insurance? Medicare in many states are being used by them, in addition to emergency services.
IR1 - Spouses: Multiple immigration attorneys claim that the Spouse green card process takes 9 to 12 mths. So it is a shortcut, compared to 8 - 20 years for some other categories. And well, they don't have to sign a contract, and that's the point. Typically people become so frustrated from either (1) not getting sponsorship from their employers, or (2) waiting for too long in one of the other categories, that they are left with no other choice but to go for IR1/CR1.
FX - Exempt spouses for LPR's: They can apply jointly with their main applicant spouses, or they can apply under F2A. Can someone really explain the reason behind keeping two categories  (F2A and FX) for Spouses of LPR's?
 

Just curious: you're on a f1/ student visa, right? Are you considering to stay in the US?

[African Zealot 1,455]

Most countries have done away with family unification visas except for children and spouses. The USA 🇺🇸 policy is an anachronism. Why should my brother be allowed to migrate here because I did? He has a totally separate life. 
 

Spouses and children should be it.