Questions about form I-864

[pushbrk 12,868]

2 hours ago, Mike E said:

 

An immigration officer is generally not familiar with how for profit businesses operate nor do they understand the tax code. 

I disagree with that one statement, as to it's accuracy or relevance.  Consular Officers are educated people.  They know what they NEED to know about evaluating the Affidavit of Support, which, in this context, is that the current income of a self employed person comes from the total income number on the tax return or tax return transcript.  They also are familiar with the schedule C, used to report revenue and subtract expenses, to produce the number that transfers to page 1 of the 1040.  They understand "income" in this context is revenue minus business expenses.  It's really pretty simple stuff.  They know the rules and follow them.

 

Most issues with the self employed stem from failing to understand the instructions for completing the affidavit of support, and/or what is considered to be their "income" for immigration related purposes.

 

They are not allowed to "make allowances".  They follow the rules.

[Mike E 11,739]

5 hours ago, pushbrk said:

They know what they NEED to know about evaluating the Affidavit of Support, which, in this context, is that the current income of a self employed person comes from the total income number on the tax return or tax return transcript.

 

 

Do they understand for example that the depreciation deduction for property rental has no bearing on available income?

 

On schedule C they should no more deducting mileage on a private vehicle than a W-2 worker should be deducting mileage for driving to the office.

 

Successful self employed people, real estate investors, farmers, investors, etc, have little taxable income.

 

What should matter to DoS is cash flow to pay expenses. For W-2 workers, gross income is pretty much cash flow. For everyone else,  DoS uses taxable income, which is meaningless in real life.

[pushbrk 12,868]

49 minutes ago, Mike E said:

 

 

Do they understand for example that the depreciation deduction for property rental has no bearing on available income?

 

On schedule C they should no more deducting mileage on a private vehicle than a W-2 worker should be deducting mileage for driving to the office.

 

Successful self employed people, real estate investors, farmers, investors, etc, have little taxable income.

 

What should matter to DoS is cash flow to pay expenses. For W-2 workers, gross income is pretty much cash flow. For everyone else,  DoS uses taxable income, which is meaningless in real life.

Whether they know those things or not, doesn't matter.  They MUST follow the rules.  It is what it is.  I've said many times, that the year you sponsor an immigrant is not the year to maximize deductions.  You can always file an amended return later.  Doesn't work so well with joint sponsors though unless they know in far in advance they will be a sponsor.   Rules are rules.  The disadvantage of the self employed CAN shine brightly in immigration matters, but if their taxable income is sufficient, it's NO PROBLEM.

[James1223 1]

13 hours ago, pushbrk said:

What you "check" is the "total income" line on his persona/joint tax return.  That is his current income and will be the income entered in the income tax section of the affidavit.

 

Note that if a self employed person shows comfortably more income than required on their total income line, they are fine.  In this context "income" is the taxable income after legitimate business expenses are deducted, NOT total business revenue.

 

Thank you for the help. I had some clarifying questions I was hoping you could help with.

I know you wrote "total income" (line 9) but wouldn't I want to report the Adjusted Gross Income (line 11)? I think that is what the instructions dictate but again, just want to make sure.

My father and my mother file jointly, and I know that per your earlier recommendation, it is best to also fill out the I-864A for my mom just in case the NVC will want to see it. As I was filling out the NVC, it also wanted my mom's AGI but wouldn't this be the same value as my father's since they filed jointly? If this is the case, do I put the same AGIs for both my mom and dad? Please correct me if I am wrong!

I will be attaching my dad's Schedule C from Self Employment and my mom's W2s from her job to the application.

 

Also as a side note, do you have a range for what they typically see as "comfortably?" My parent's AGI is >20,000 higher than the 125% for the household of 4, but is definitely not consistently in the 6 figure range. Would this raise many concerns about viability to sponsor?

 

Thank you.

 

Edited June 27, 2023 by James1223

[pushbrk 12,868]

5 hours ago, James1223 said:

Thank you for the help. I had some clarifying questions I was hoping you could help with.

I know you wrote "total income" (line 9) but wouldn't I want to report the Adjusted Gross Income (line 11)? I think that is what the instructions dictate but again, just want to make sure.

My father and my mother file jointly, and I know that per your earlier recommendation, it is best to also fill out the I-864A for my mom just in case the NVC will want to see it. As I was filling out the NVC, it also wanted my mom's AGI but wouldn't this be the same value as my father's since they filed jointly? If this is the case, do I put the same AGIs for both my mom and dad? Please correct me if I am wrong!

I will be attaching my dad's Schedule C from Self Employment and my mom's W2s from her job to the application.

 

Also as a side note, do you have a range for what they typically see as "comfortably?" My parent's AGI is >20,000 higher than the 125% for the household of 4, but is definitely not consistently in the 6 figure range. Would this raise many concerns about viability to sponsor?

 

Thank you.

 

You are wrong about using AGI.  Read those instructions and pay attention to the "IF" and what follows it.  Your parents do not file a 1040EZ.  Use the total income line.  You are correct though that the same numbers will be entered on the past tax return section for each of them.  If mom has no income, that same number is entered as your father's "current income".  If mom works, subtract her W2 earnings from that total, and THAT is dad's current income.  Key issue here in doing it right depends on whether mom has income.  (Not whether it is needed or used, but whether she has any.)

[James1223 1]

4 hours ago, pushbrk said:

You are wrong about using AGI.  Read those instructions and pay attention to the "IF" and what follows it.  Your parents do not file a 1040EZ.  Use the total income line.  You are correct though that the same numbers will be entered on the past tax return section for each of them.  If mom has no income, that same number is entered as your father's "current income".  If mom works, subtract her W2 earnings from that total, and THAT is dad's current income.  Key issue here in doing it right depends on whether mom has income.  (Not whether it is needed or used, but whether she has any.)

Thank you again for your help. I apologize for not reading the instructions fully.

I just want to again clarify a few things just to make sure that I am on the right page.

 

I will report my dad's "current income" for this year using the income from the previous year. Since he is self-employed, sometimes the total income changes, but it would be okay for him to just base it off of the previous year's earning since there is not any anticipated large change. When calculating his "total income" I will subtract the 2022 total income by my mom's 2022 W2 earnings. This amount is still larger than the I-864p requirement for a household of 4.

 

The instructions said that the "Income you are using from any other person..." is optional if your individual income exceeds the I-864p requirement. However you suggest that I still put my mom in this section and write her W2 earnings because most of the officers will like to have that information anyways.

 

I will then help fill out a separate I-864A form for my mom.

 

In both my dad and mom's I864 and I864A forms respectively, they will have the same "total income" for the most recent 3 tax years. I will also include my mom's W2 earnings in the "individual annual income" part in both the I864 and I864 in their appropriate sections. 

 

Regarding the following section on the "assets," because my dad's current annual household income is more than the I-864p requirement, he would not need to fill this portion out. Similarly, because neither of them are using any assets to sponsor my spouse, my mom would not be required to fill in the asset portion of the I-864A either. For my I-864 form though, I would need to fill out the assets as my total income is under the I-864p requirement and the instructions do not mention it being optional even if there is a joint sponsor.

 

Thank you for reading through my response, I am honestly not the most experienced regarding taxes and these forms and really do appreciate your help. Thank you again.

[pushbrk 12,868]

3 hours ago, James1223 said:

Thank you again for your help. I apologize for not reading the instructions fully.

I just want to again clarify a few things just to make sure that I am on the right page.

 

I will report my dad's "current income" for this year using the income from the previous year. Since he is self-employed, sometimes the total income changes, but it would be okay for him to just base it off of the previous year's earning since there is not any anticipated large change. When calculating his "total income" I will subtract the 2022 total income by my mom's 2022 W2 earnings. This amount is still larger than the I-864p requirement for a household of 4.

 

The instructions said that the "Income you are using from any other person..." is optional if your individual income exceeds the I-864p requirement. However you suggest that I still put my mom in this section and write her W2 earnings because most of the officers will like to have that information anyways.

 

I will then help fill out a separate I-864A form for my mom.

 

In both my dad and mom's I864 and I864A forms respectively, they will have the same "total income" for the most recent 3 tax years. I will also include my mom's W2 earnings in the "individual annual income" part in both the I864 and I864 in their appropriate sections. 

 

Regarding the following section on the "assets," because my dad's current annual household income is more than the I-864p requirement, he would not need to fill this portion out. Similarly, because neither of them are using any assets to sponsor my spouse, my mom would not be required to fill in the asset portion of the I-864A either. For my I-864 form though, I would need to fill out the assets as my total income is under the I-864p requirement and the instructions do not mention it being optional even if there is a joint sponsor.

 

Thank you for reading through my response, I am honestly not the most experienced regarding taxes and these forms and really do appreciate your help. Thank you again.

You got it all right above except a small detail. The affidavit of support is not just information.  It's a signed contract obligating its signers.  They want your mom's signature on that contract that has real potential obligations that would impact her directly.

[James1223 1]

On 6/28/2023 at 4:00 AM, pushbrk said:

You got it all right above except a small detail. The affidavit of support is not just information.  It's a signed contract obligating its signers.  They want your mom's signature on that contract that has real potential obligations that would impact her directly.

Thank you for the help. I just got a hold of my mom's W2 and saw that there were two different W2 wages. The wages listed in the social security and medicare wage boxes are higher than box 1, which I believe is for the "wages, tips, other compensation." Which value do I subtract with to get my father's total income?

 

Thank you again.

[pushbrk 12,868]

1 hour ago, James1223 said:

Thank you for the help. I just got a hold of my mom's W2 and saw that there were two different W2 wages. The wages listed in the social security and medicare wage boxes are higher than box 1, which I believe is for the "wages, tips, other compensation." Which value do I subtract with to get my father's total income?

 

Thank you again.

The biggest number

[James1223 1]

@pushbrk

Thank you again. I will be going to my parent's place to get the paperwork needed. I came up with a list based on the instructions given on the NVC and CEAC websites, but just want to confirm I dont miss anything. I also had a few questions because there were a few documents that I wasn't sure what the best method was.

 

For me:

Evidence of Income - will include documents from my work that show my stipend as a TA.

Proof of Assets - since my income is lower than the 2 size household threshold, I will attach a screenshot of the balance in my bank account.

 

Dad:

I dont believe he has a W2 because he is self employed.

I will attach his Schedule E and his Proof of US Status (US Passport or Naturalization document)

 

Mom:

She is filling out the I-864A.

I will attach her W2 form

Proof of Relationship - her marriage certificate with my dad is in Chinese, and I would prefer avoiding the notary if possible. The CEAC mentioned that they could just provide a signed written letter stating their relationship with one another. Is this good enough? Or should I really try to find something else? For the letter, I figured we could write something like "Hello officer, my name is (mom's name), and I have been married to (father's name) for ________ years. We currently reside at (address)."

 

I also had a question regarding the tax forms. CEAC and NVC mention that it is okay to upload either a tax transcript or a photocopy of the tax returns. Is there a preference for which method would lead to faster review or does it truly not matter?

 

Thank you again, you have been so helpful and have played such an impactful role in this process for me and my partner.

Edited July 1, 2023 by James1223

[pushbrk 12,868]

You really need to read those instructions again.  Too much wrong to comment one.  Become an A-Student of the instructions and the form, all of it/them, then send a new list.

 

[James1223 1]

4 hours ago, pushbrk said:

You really need to read those instructions again.  Too much wrong to comment one.  Become an A-Student of the instructions and the form, all of it/them, then send a new list.

 

Sorry about that - this is where I am getting my information. Potentially I need to look at a different source?

 

For me:

 

For my dad:

 

For my mom:

 

Then specifically for each of the categories, I am referring to the financial evidence table linked on the same page. Do I need to be looking at a different source?

[James1223 1]

12 minutes ago, James1223 said:

Sorry about that - this is where I am getting my information. Potentially I need to look at a different source?

 

For me:

 

For my dad:

 

For my mom:

 

Then specifically for each of the categories, I am referring to the financial evidence table linked on the same page. Do I need to be looking at a different source?

Sorry for the double post - but from what I'm gathering still, I guess a more complete list would be....

Me: Previous year tax return, Proof of Assets, Evidence of Income, I-864
Dad: Previous year tax return, Schedule E, Proof of US Status, I-864
Mom: Previous year tax return, W2 form, Proof of Relationship, I-864A

but I'm still a bit unsure about the different types of sources I can supply. I know it mentions that tax transcripts are faster than tax returns, but is it a substantial difference? VisaJourney's guide mentions providing the tax return as a main and the tax transcript as an alternative. Also, would a letter for Proof of Relationship be enough? It seems too little, but it also seems to qualify based on the information provided.

Edited July 1, 2023 by James1223

[pushbrk 12,868]

9 hours ago, James1223 said:

Sorry for the double post - but from what I'm gathering still, I guess a more complete list would be....

Me: Previous year tax return, Proof of Assets, Evidence of Income, I-864
Dad: Previous year tax return, Schedule E, Proof of US Status, I-864
Mom: Previous year tax return, W2 form, Proof of Relationship, I-864A

but I'm still a bit unsure about the different types of sources I can supply. I know it mentions that tax transcripts are faster than tax returns, but is it a substantial difference? VisaJourney's guide mentions providing the tax return as a main and the tax transcript as an alternative. Also, would a letter for Proof of Relationship be enough? It seems too little, but it also seems to qualify based on the information provided.

Better.  If the "Tax Return Transcript" is available, it is preferred.  Otherwise a COMPLETE copy of a tax return including all schedules, plus applicable W2 and 1099 forms is fine.  The real source of what to provide for each is the I-864 instructions, not NVC instructions, but do pay attention to both.

 

Your parents file a joint tax return as husband and wife.  Submit only ONE for both, not one for each.  That tax return is also the evidence they are "married".  You cannot file a joint tax return unless you ARE married.  

 

The I-864 instructions will also tell you what to submit as evidence of their Citizenship and actual current residence in the USA.

[James1223 1]

On 7/1/2023 at 6:37 PM, pushbrk said:

Better.  If the "Tax Return Transcript" is available, it is preferred.  Otherwise a COMPLETE copy of a tax return including all schedules, plus applicable W2 and 1099 forms is fine.  The real source of what to provide for each is the I-864 instructions, not NVC instructions, but do pay attention to both.

 

Your parents file a joint tax return as husband and wife.  Submit only ONE for both, not one for each.  That tax return is also the evidence they are "married".  You cannot file a joint tax return unless you ARE married.  

 

The I-864 instructions will also tell you what to submit as evidence of their Citizenship and actual current residence in the USA.

 

Hello, thank you again for your help. I have prepared the documents with more detail and just want to double check what I have is correct.

 

Me: I-864, Proof of Assets (I have attached my bank statements from last month, 3 months ago, 6 months ago, and 1 year ago), Evidence of Income (since I am a current student in school and just working by-semester as a graduate teaching assistant, I have attached my semester-stipends from Spring 2023, Summer 2023, and Fall 2023), Tax Return Transcript for 2022

 

Dad: I-864, Proof of US Status (Biographic page on Passport), Tax Return Transcript for 2022

 

Mom: I-864A, Proof of US Status (Biographic page on Passport), W2 form, Proof of Marriage (Tax Transcript from father shows status as filing jointly, and also a hand-written letter signed by both mom and dad saying they are married)

 

I did have a few follow up questions as well - I looked through the I-864 instructions and it mentioned obtaining the tax transcripts through filling out the IRS Form 4506-T and having the IRS send the transcripts via mail. Rather than doing this, I downloaded the tax transcripts online. These are the same transcripts correct?

 

Second - I know in the previous post, I mentioned attaching my father's Schedule E. However, since I am now attaching his tax return transcript, I do not need to attach any schedules correct? The instructions for I-864 state that only if we are qualifying using his income, we would need to upload the appropriate schedules. Since my mom is filling out the I-864A, I should not need to upload the schedules.

 

Third - For I-864, is reporting the assets of the intending immigrant recommended? I know the instructions state it is optional, but I wanted to ask to see if it was really optional or not required, but highly recommended.

 

Thank you for the help

James

 

 

 

 

Edited July 3, 2023 by James1223