No vape sale with foreign license

[Caro1 78]

Hi VJ-community,

I entered the US in the middle of May on IR-1 visa, I’m still waiting for my SSN since DHS seemed to have „lost“ the application, whatever that means and the local SSN office wouldn’t let me apply for a new number until 3 weeks after I entered. 
 

Without a SSN, I also cannot get a Kansas drivers license or state ID yet. 
 

Today I went into a vape shop, which had a 21+ sign in the window. I am almost 30 years old and had my German ID and even my passport with me. 
I was asked for an ID, and then asked to leave, because they couldn’t „verify my age“ with my German ID or passport…… I guess they need to scan the ID and foreign IDs cannot be scanned by their computer program. 
That very much felt like discrimination. 
Is that legal? 

I know it will only take a few weeks to get a SSN now, and this isn’t really a life threatening problem or anything, but it still didn’t feel good to be asked to leave. 
 

has anyone else had similar experiences?

[Mike E 11,739]

39 minutes ago, Caro1 said:

That very much felt like discrimination. 
Is that legal? 

It is.

 

There is no safe harbor for for vendors who sell products forbidden to those under 21. 
 

This means even if the customer presents valid ID, if the customer is  under 21,  vendors can lose their license.

[Boiler 45,467]

It is discrimination.

 

Whether it is legal or not you would depend on State law, you would need to consult a local lawyer.

[jackiegringa 419]

Sucks they couldn't read your birthday from your passport - lots of people freak out when they see something that is not a state ID and don't know what to do. Welcome to America!

 

Since you're over 21 it does feel like discrimination but honestly I don't see any course of action besides getting used to have to explain to people that you're right, happens a lot as a green card holder. Travel agents, HR staff, bank tellers, lots of possible encounters that you will have to push back and state your rights because no one knows what to do when you're not a US citizen.

 

Just as a reminder, state law and federal law are separate and it is very relevant for immigrants - controlled substances that are legal in many states are not legal federally and that means it "counts" as illegal for you.

Edited June 15, 2023 by jackiegringa

[Mike E 11,739]

4 hours ago, jackiegringa said:

Sucks they couldn't read your birthday from your passport - lots of people freak out when they see something that is not a state ID and don't know what to do. Welcome to America!

Vape shops, like tobacco and liquor shops, are not required to sell product to people over age 21z

 

Quote

 

Since you're over 21 it does feel like discrimination

Vaping, like smoking, and drinking are not legally protected acts because vapers, like smokers and drinkers are not a protected group.

Quote

but honestly I don't see any course of action besides getting used to have to explain to people that you're right, happens a lot as a green card holder.

Green card holders are eligible for state ID in every state, territory, and district in the Union, and in most of those, eligible for REAL ID. 

Quote

Travel agents, HR staff, bank tellers,

One of these things is not like other. There are specific laws that mandate that jobs cannot be denied to foreigners that present correct I-9 documents. There are no such lass that require travel and banking services to be provided. For travel, CBP has a specific document that tells carriers what documents it may accept from foreign (and American) travelers. 
 

For banking, the PATRIOT and Know Your Customer laws give banks not just discretion to deny services to foreign customers, but in some cases mandates denial of service.

 

Quote

lots of possible encounters that you will have to push back and state your rights

In this context, there are no rights to vape, travel services, and banking services 

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because no one knows what to do when you're not a US citizen.

In OP’s case the vendor does not know what to do with the ID OP presented. Fortunately, OP has countless choices of places to buy vape products. 

OP also has free agency to go to an SSA office to get an SSN, and then go to a state motor vehicles department store and get s state ID.

 

Even if there was a legally protected right to vape, until the penalty for denial of vape products exceeds the penalty for sale of vape products, denial of vape products is should be expected by people present anything besides the state ID / DL of the state where the vape shop is provided.

 

Here is one state government’s view on acceptable forms of ID:

https://www.abc.ca.gov/education/licensee-education/checking-identification/
 

Examples of Identification that are not bona fide

• U.S. Government Immigrant identification card
   

Is that clear enough? Green cards are not bona fide ID to sell alcohol in California.

 

It goes on to say

 

A business may have a company policy that is stricter than the law; e.g., “Only California driver licenses/identifications are accepted” or “anyone purchasing alcoholic beverages MUST present an identification, regardless of age.”

 

OP was not discriminated against because OP did not provide ID that acceptable to the intersection of state and store policy.

Edited June 15, 2023 by Mike E

[Caro1 78]

Thanks everyone for taking the time to respond! I appreciate it!

As a foreigner living here, I want to fit in with the people and customs, but I also want to be able to stand up for myself, if there are grounds to do so. 

 

I have definitely felt that people here (like HR, staff at the Social Security Office, etc) do not understand the US immigration system. It feels uncomfortable to stand up in front of them and act like I’m the expert, when I feel like they should be the experts. Ha ha. E.g.: I have been asked to provide EAD to the SS-office. I have been asked to provide I-94 record to HR. 
both situations where I feel like I shouldn’t have to quote google searches to them, and explain why I don’t have those. 

I understand it will all get better once I get the SSN, and then state ID/driver’s license, but for right now, I do feel like a second class person - even although I’ve done everything right throughout this whole immigration process.

I guess I had the false expectation, that IR1 being the superior visa over K1 meant that I wouldn’t have any of these problems here.
 

anyway, it’s good to understand what rights I have and what rights I don’t have. 
and apparently buying vapes is not a right. Ha ha. I figured as much, but I do appreciate your explanations.  

 

[Mike E 11,739]

4 minutes ago, Caro1 said:

but for right now, I do feel like a second class person

As a naturalized U.S. citizen, I can assure you, that you will never be a first class person in this country compared to a citizen born here.
 

We are not treated the same.

 

Hopefully there are greater opportunities here for you that make this permanent class division tolerable to you.

[Caro1 78]

2 minutes ago, Mike E said:

As a naturalized U.S. citizen, I can assure you, that you will never be a first class person in this country compared to a citizen born here.
 

We are not treated the same.

 

Hopefully there are greater opportunities here for you that make this permanent class division tolerable to you.

Well that’s sad.  
 

As a German, I don’t feel like there are better opportunities for me here than they were in Germany. I do feel a lot more risk here. But my wife wasn’t happy living in Germany, which is why we are here now. I’m trying to give it a real shot of being happy here. I’m a pretty adaptable person. 
 

and I can definitely hold off on buying anything 21+ until after I get my KS license   

[jackiegringa 419]

42 minutes ago, Mike E said:

As a naturalized U.S. citizen, I can assure you, that you will never be a first class person in this country compared to a citizen born here.
 

Appreciate your point by point explanations, I believe we agree on the broader picture, nicely summarized here. Wasn't truly thinking about legality but this general malaise of being an immigrant and having to deal with friction on day to day life.

 

Hope your state id comes soon OP!

[Ketsuban 1,034]

I was buying alcohol at a Giant Eagle once and the cashier wouldn't accept my British passport. Another occasion at a bar, the server started leafing through the pages and asked me if I was here legally lol. Some places are weird about foreign documents and it is up to them what they choose to accept or not. I hope you get the situation with your SSN sorted soon so you can get a drivers license or state ID.

Edited June 15, 2023 by Ketsuban
Typo

[JeanneAdil 6,491]

I would go back to SS office with the I 551 stamp and get a different SS officer or manager to get that SS card 

no reason they could not help u

that will solve many issues

[M+K IL 102]

16 hours ago, Caro1 said:

I was asked for an ID, and then asked to leave, because they couldn’t „verify my age“ with my German ID or passport

I was once visiting a university friend in the US while based in Germany, and the research library is restricted access (you have to show ID). They could not accept my German driver license as apparently whatever visitor entry system they had require filling in expiration dates, and this license does not have one!

I just shrugged it off -- if I really wanted to I could have come back with my passport -- but yeah. The one thing to get used to in the US is that there is a proliferation of IDs, and different federal, state, and local government offices might have a different understanding of what IDs are valid (let alone stores!) -- it definitely adds some inconvenience early on but it's not the end of the world.

FWIW in my past experience most stores that age check seem to happily accept passports.

[Caro1 78]

2 hours ago, JeanneAdil said:

I would go back to SS office with the I 551 stamp and get a different SS officer or manager to get that SS card 

no reason they could not help u

that will solve many issues

I was finally able to apply for the SSN at the SS office last week.

I had initially checked on the DS-260 to be issued a SSN, but it still has not arrived. 
so I called the local SS office 2 weeks after entry and they told me I couldn’t apply until 3 weeks after entry, because i checked that box on DS-260.

so exactly 3 weeks after entry, i went to the SS office in person and they let me apply for one, because they still didn’t see the initial application in their system. 
I should hopefully get the SSN and card next week

Edited June 15, 2023 by Caro1

[Boiler 45,467]

I helped a friend who wanted the SSN more than the EAD, suggested he go down as soon as he had his EAD and that worked, I know when I applied for mine s few days after I entered the lady asked me if I wanted to know what it was and wrote it down for me. Card came a week later. I have the card somewhere but have never needed it. 

[Ketsuban 1,034]

I went to get my SSN about two weeks after I arrived. The lady I sat with was really unfriendly and said she couldn't do anything for me because I didn't have a green card, despite my insistence that the stamped visa acted as one for a year. She also mentioned that my middle name was in the incorrect field in the SAVE (is that what it's called? It's been so long) system which I recall was a minor issue back then. I recall calling CBP about it and they were like 🤷‍♀️, lol. 

 

She handed me a piece of paper and sent me on my way telling me I wasn't eligible for an SSN. The paper said congratulations we'll send your SSN ASAP. Got it a week later and almost nine years later I still have no idea what any of that was about. Not sure if she couldn't read or if she figured it out at the end and was too embarrassed to say as much... I thought maybe a mistake happened somewhere but I've been recklessly using my SSN to date with no prison time thus far. Well, I had someone aggressively tell me that LPRs don't get SSNs a few years back but I still somehow have it to this day!