Denied a k1 visa? Mothers have the same last nmes?

[Jaseball 0]

This is strange. More than 3 days? I didn't think there was a limit on time spent together, only that they had to meet in person within the past two years and have proof of an ongoing relationship.

With the distances involved how else can you prove an ongoing relationship? Take pictures of online video chat? Print out emails. Have handwritten letters. Phone logs.

There has to be different information or evidence for this denial they are not stating.

I only got to spend about 14 days with my fiancee over two trips.

[caybee 21]

This is strange. More than 3 days? I didn't think there was a limit on time spent together, only that they had to meet in person within the past two years and have proof of an ongoing relationship.

With the distances involved how else can you prove an ongoing relationship? Take pictures of online video chat? Print out emails. Have handwritten letters. Phone logs.

There has to be different information or evidence for this denial they are not stating.

I only got to spend about 14 days with my fiancee over two trips.

From the notation on the second letter from the consulate:

"Petitioner made two additional trips, in April 2004 and August 2005. Credible evidence of communication includes several sporadic monthly phone records from 2003-present. Despite Petitioner’s three trips to Vietnam, photographs do not indicate she spent more than three days in Beneficiary’s company."

This indicates that the couple had three visits together, spaced an average of a year apart, and the last visit mentioned was almost two years ago. I remember another couple running into trouble at a consulate because the woman was wearing the same clothing in every picture they submitted, which could suggest that they were only together on one day. The notation also mentions "sporadic" phone records. The OP says there have been a thousand phone calls. If the couple did not submit all of the phone records and photos yet, they should. And they need to supply anything and everything that proves they spent more than a day together every year or two. The birth certificate is irrelevant now. They need proof of contact, as much as the couple can get their hands on. That's what they're asking for. Time to spam them with everything the couple has, if the petition has not yet been returned.

[rebeccajo 14]

Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam

One of THE toughest consulates on the planet. If not the worst.

Don't be spinning your wheels getting DNA tests or birth certs. That's not the official annotation for the denial.

You probably don't have a prayer for this without help from an attorney experienced with that consulate. Your immediate efforts should be spent locating one.

Edited July 27, 2007 by rebeccajo

[quyenlv 0]

I do not have any friend or relative from South Viet Nam. So every time I go to Viet Nam, I went to South Viet Nam directly from USA. And I spend all my time with him when I was there. We just did not take as many pictures as the COs need, I think. And I have a reason for this. I never think that every time we go out we have to bring the camera with us to take pictures as evidences for his visa. On top of that, I had a camera when we first met. Then his cousin asked for it and I gave it to his cousin. Next thing I know is he got into a fight with his cousin. After that I never bring any camera to Viet Nam.

[Minya's wife 25]

You need the assistance of a qualified immigration attorney at this point. From the communication you've received from the Consulate, it looks like your petition will be sent back here to the US with a recommendation that your petition be revoked.

Therefore, pursuant to 9 FAM 41.81 N6.5, the reviewing officer has decided that the petition should be returned to the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) with the recommendation that it be revoked. The case will next be reviewed by the Immigrant Visa Chief and will be returned to USCIS for review and possible revocation upon his concurrence with the reviewing officer’s decision.

Something however is confusing. Upon you first interview, you received the first 221g letter which stated what information they wanted from you, i.e. more proof of the bona-fide ongoing relationship between you and your fiancee.

* Based on the information ascertained through the visa interview and through documentary materials, consular officers do not believe that there is a bona fide fiance’(e)/spousal relationship between Petitioner and Beneficiary. If you have any other evidence to present which would convince a reasonable person that the relationship exists for a reason other than immigration, please submit it. Please label and itemize all materials submitted.

Why did you think that it was your mother's birth certificate they wanted? That is not what they asked for the first time. When you submitted the birth certificate in response to the first 221g letter, you still did not prove what they asked you to prove. You have not proven to the Consulate's satisfaction that your relationship is real and ongoing. Phone records and photos may not be enough. That is why they are intending to revoke your petition. AT this point your best bet is to try to stop the Consulate from returning your petition back here to the US. If you're not able to do that, you may have a very long road ahead of you. Please consult with a very qualified immigration attorney, preferably one with immigration experience specific to Vietnam or one with experience no denied/returned petitions.

Good luck!

-P

[PaulineA 1]

It looks as though they are looking for evidence of a bonafide relationship. I took this information from the K1 Faqs at the top of the page.

1. Copies of all airline boarding passes, train passes, itineraries, hotel receipts, passport stamps (make sure you can read the dates on the stamps), and other documentary evidence that you have met within the last two years. You may want to highlight or place post-it notes indicating the dates and locations on the copies (to make the adjudication easier) for the person reviewing your file.

2. Color Photo's of you and your fiance(e) together. Make sure you write your names, date, and location on the back of every photo. Provide two to five photo's. If you only have a single copy of the photo, then make a color copy and send that. If it is a digital photo, have it printed at a company such as kodakgallery.com. You can also make duplicates of photo's at your local photo store (Walgreeens, CVS, etc). Place photo's in a plastic bag or photo sheet and label the sheet. Note that you may not receive originals of photo's back.

3. The following items will not typically show proof of having met in the last two years however will show proof of an ongoing relationship: Copies of phone bills, cell phone bills, emails (you can edit personal info with a marker), letters (edit personal info also), stamps on the letters (to document the date they were sent), and other written documentary proof. Provide a reasonable amount; two to four of each type. Pick a range of dates up to and including the present. You can also include a copy of engagement ring receipt (this is something that is a big optional - do not worry if you do not have a ring yet!)

[Jaseball 0]

I do not have any friend or relative from South Viet Nam. So every time I go to Viet Nam, I went to South Viet Nam directly from USA. And I spend all my time with him when I was there. We just did not take as many pictures as the COs need, I think. And I have a reason for this. I never think that every time we go out we have to bring the camera with us to take pictures as evidences for his visa. On top of that, I had a camera when we first met. Then his cousin asked for it and I gave it to his cousin. Next thing I know is he got into a fight with his cousin. After that I never bring any camera to Viet Nam.

I think that is a big problem. When you submitted the application you probably should have had a recent trip with everything documented and pictures with different clothes in different locations on different days.

Also, I'm sure Vietnam is a huge factor as well and they give extra scrutiny for anyone from that country.

My fiancee is from China and I am expecting extra scrutiny as well because the country is communist.

This visa process is pretty strict and you can't explain away gaps or lack of evidence. This case if far more complicated and I think the advice of attorney's may be warranted.

They are not going to take your word of 1000's of phone calls. You need the monthly records with day/time duration and the phone numbers called.

[quyenlv 0]

First they asked for my mother birth certificate and it took me two months to convince my mother to go to Viet Nam to get a copy of her birth cert. from the local government where she was born. During this period of time someone from the consulate office called my fiancé` and asked why taking such a long time. Actually, they called twice during that time.

[no name 1]

First they asked for my mother birth certificate and it took me two months to convince my mother to go to Viet Nam to get a copy of her birth cert. from the local government where she was born. During this period of time someone from the consulate office called my fiancé` and asked why taking such a long time. Actually, they called twice during that time.

I'm not sure how else to say this.

THEY DO NOT WANT A BIRTH CERTIFICATE.

They think your relationship is fake. You need to prove it is not.

[quyenlv 0]

I gave them airline boarding passes, itineraries, passport stamps, phone bills (2004 to present), pictures, emails, voice chat and postal mail.

At first they accepted all of these evidences and now they said **photographs do not indicate she spent more than three days in Beneficiary’s company**

[no name 1]

I gave them airline boarding passes, itineraries, passport stamps, phone bills (2004 to present), pictures, emails, voice chat and postal mail.

At first they accepted all of these evidences and now they said **photographs do not indicate she spent more than three days in Beneficiary’s company**

First off, only the last 2 years have any releveance as far as evidence.

Secondly, visiting for 3 days in 3 years is nothing, as far as a relationship goes. Obviously the embassy agrees. You can res-submit your info but the IO has already recommended a denial. After that it will be sent to USCIS for another review.

[quyenlv 0]

I did give them all the copies of monthly statement from the phone companies with dates and times on it.

To prove our relationship I already gave them all the evidences as phone bills, passport, pictures of two of together, emails, voice chat and everything else that I have.

What else should I do to prove our relationship is real?

[Jaseball 0]

I did give them all the copies of monthly statement from the phone companies with dates and times on it.

To prove our relationship I already gave them all the evidences as phone bills, passport, pictures of two of together, emails, voice chat and everything else that I have.

What else should I do to prove our relationship is real?

Where you are now I really think you need an immigration attorney. Did the consulate just review your package and then deny or did they actually talk to and bring in the fiancee before denying?

[Bill y Bella 0]

I say we cut them a little slack on the birth certificate issue. Let's stop scolding them and try to help.

It seems to me that the consulate did indeed request the birth certificate and they went to great deal of trouble to obtain it. However, while they were chasing the bc they were rejected for lack of evidence of a bonafide relationship.

It seems to me that the current problem is that they did not submit additional relationship evidence when it was requested. (Is that correct? You did not submit anything additional after the interview other than the birth certificate?) Presumably this is because they had already submitted all the evidence that they have. They submitted phone records, email, chat, passport stamps and a few pics.

The small quantity of pics has made the consulate suspicious and given that the consulate apparently did not receive any additional evidence when it was requested, they now have grounds to deny the visa.

I have several suggestions.

1. As others have suggested, find an immigration attorney with experience in Vietnam ASAP. You really want to try to stop the application from being returned to the US if you can. You need someone to help buy you some time. Do this now!

2. If you have not already done so, print out every email and chat for the last two years. I know it is a ton of paper, but you need to overwhelm them with evidence at this point. I would leave in as much of the personal and intimate conversations as possible. Now is not the time to be shy. You need to show evidence that your relationship is not strictly business. Let them see the arguments and the dirty talk if there is any.

3. Search your memories and see if you can find some friends and relatives who took fotos of you while you were together. Even if you are not both in the same fotos, if you have one of each of you that was obviously taken at the same place at the same time, for instance at a party or restaurant then they might still be helpful.

4. Did the petitioner ever send any $ or gifts to the beneficiary? Did you buy gifts for each other while you were together? What about gifts for holidays? If so, is there any evidence of that?

5. Do #1 first! Additional evidence will not do you much good if the application gets sent back to the US.

That is all I can think of. Does anyone else have any suggestions on how to scrape up some more relationship evidence?

[pushbrk 13,174]

I did give them all the copies of monthly statement from the phone companies with dates and times on it.

To prove our relationship I already gave them all the evidences as phone bills, passport, pictures of two of together, emails, voice chat and everything else that I have.

What else should I do to prove our relationship is real?

Where you are now I really think you need an immigration attorney. Did the consulate just review your package and then deny or did they actually talk to and bring in the fiancee before denying?

The OP is in denial mode. The pictures indicated you spent little time together. You've explained that but the lack of pictures is only one piece of the puzzle. What are the other pieces? They indicate the phone contact was sporatic. They must have had a reason for coming to that conclusion. What was it?

Neither of the letters you quoted indicated they wanted your mother's birth certificate, yet you persist in going in that direction. I take it you misunderstood their concerns with your relationship. Perhaps it was lost in translation. In the Consulate's intended context the "relationship" they want you to prove has nothing to do with genealogy. It has to do with your "personal relationship". Is it the kind of interaction one would expect from a couple that intends to marry and spend the rest of their lives as a married couple? They say the evidence indicates it is not

The answer to your question is that you should offer all the proof you can. What proof do you have.