Electric vehicles have an efficiency problem

[Dashinka 24,488]

5 hours ago, Mike E said:

All cars should be banned:

https://abc7ny.com/lic-fire-truck-explosion-dot/13464473/
 

https://abc7ny.com/amp/nypd-car-crash-officers-injured-fire/13368941/
 

https://www.westsiderag.com/2023/06/24/car-fire-briefly-closes-northbound-west-side-highway-saturday-morning
 

https://nypost.com/2022/11/17/car-burst-into-flames-at-hudson-yards-in-manhattan/amp/
 

etc

Yes, cars catch fire, but there is a big difference between an ICE and an EV.  As someone that has extinguished several vehicle fires, even a big RV that may catch fire (usually due to an electrical problem), they can be put out with minimal amounts of water and in fairly short times (one of the stories you posted actually said the fire was extinguished quickly).  EVs are a different story, if an EV battery pack goes into runaway while parked in a garage, you may as well write off the house as it will be a long time before it can be extinguished, it will take a lot of water, and it may re-ignite after you think it is out.

 

I am curious if homeowners insurance charges a premium for having an EV parked in an attached garage.

 

As to the first story, I am a little curious as to what actually exploded.  Most of the car fires I have been on, it is usually the tires that explode, and I suppose that may have been the case here with a DOT truck having larger and more tires.  If this was a truck with any hydraulics, it may have been a hydraulic cylinder exploding.

 

The big issue I see with EVs as compared to ICE is most ICE fires are caused by people not doing proper maintenance and a component subsequently failing (purely anecdotal from my first hand experiences), but an EV with the battery chemistry, can simply be sitting there and catch fire if something in the battery pack goes wrong.  In the case of EVs, there is not much an owner can do to prevent it.

[Dashinka 24,488]

5 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

But then we'd have to ride horses, who fart & poop & belch, thus emitting greenhouse gases that contribute to climate change!

 

4 hours ago, Mike E said:

I want America to be a Ken-dom and scapegoating cars is how we get horses back.

 

 

 

Nope, we will be forced to use hobbyhorses, or coconuts.

 

 

[Mike E 11,739]

2 hours ago, Dashinka said:

I am curious if homeowners insurance charges a premium for having an EV parked in an attached garage.

Not IME.

 

Perhaps insurance companies did the math, and concluded that even if an EV fire is more difficult to put out, since EVs combust about 2 orders of magnitude less frequently, EV owners should pay the same rates.
 

Moat homeowner insurance did not go up when insurers noticed policy holders

 

* dropped their landline for a battery powered phone.

 

* traded their desk top computers for a laptop

 

* added batteries so that their solar powered homes would work at night

 

The Stages of Grief most of Chest is going through with loss of ICE vehicles is amusing. 
 

While I wish the government was not forcing people to switch to EVs, and I am very much in favor of a warmer planet, the government did not force your ancestors to give up stones, bronze, iron, bows and arrows, whale oil, blood letting, gas lamps, EVs (the first cars were EVs), out houses, steam locomotives, ice boxes, dried meat, trans oceanic passenger liners, trans continental passenger trains, full serve gas stations, etc. 

 

Instead your ancestors switched because the new thing was better. EVs are better. 

[Dashinka 24,488]

44 minutes ago, Mike E said:

Not IME.

 

Perhaps insurance companies did the math, and concluded that even if an EV fire is more difficult to put out, since EVs combust about 2 orders of magnitude less frequently, EV owners should pay the same rates.
 

Moat homeowner insurance did not go up when insurers noticed policy holders

 

* dropped their landline for a battery powered phone.

 

* traded their desk top computers for a laptop

 

* added batteries so that their solar powered homes would work at night

 

The Stages of Grief most of Chest is going through with loss of ICE vehicles is amusing. 
 

While I wish the government was not forcing people to switch to EVs, and I am very much in favor of a warmer planet, the government did not force your ancestors to give up stones, bronze, iron, bows and arrows, whale oil, blood letting, gas lamps, EVs (the first cars were EVs), out houses, steam locomotives, ice boxes, dried meat, trans oceanic passenger liners, trans continental passenger trains, full serve gas stations, etc. 

 

Instead your ancestors switched because the new thing was better. EVs are better. 

See your inner environmentalist is coming out.  I never understood how the horse and buggy analogy made any sense when comparing ICE to EVs.  EVs are not some great leap in transportation technology as compared to ICE, in fact EVs have been around for almost the entire time we have been utilizing 4 wheel motorized transport.  The only advantage is now there is new battery chemistry that improves the energy storage density, but it still does not get close to Mother Nature.  Regardless, I have always been a fan of new stuff, and sure EVs are fun to drive, but they still have many limitations of which is they are still emitting a lot of CO2 and VOCs, but for some reason the EV fans don't care.

 

Now the horse and buggy analogy would make sense if someone actually perfected the Star Trek transporter.

[Boiler 45,467]

In the days when we had Milk and Pop delivered it was by EV, reminded me of this but even I do not remember Horse powered deliveries.

 

 

[Mike E 11,739]

37 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

See your inner environmentalist is coming out. 

😂
 

I don’t give a flying flip about the environment. I totally embrace the polar caps melting and flooding NYC and SF. Because the alternative, an ice age, will end civilization. Reducing CO2 is nihilism. 
 

And I think we have too many bears, rattle snakes, scorpions, etc. I want them to go extinct. Apex predator, man! 

 

42 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

EVs are not some great leap in transportation technology as compared to ICE

* regenerative braking, so fewer brake jobs

* less maintenance

* no need to leave the house to re-energize

* no transmission

* better acceleration

* quieter

* does not fund  attacks like ICE cars funded 9/11. Bin Laden don’t ride shotgun in my Tesla.

 

47 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

in fact EVs have been around for almost the entire time we have been utilizing 4 wheel motorized transport.

And most of that time EVs were garbage. In fact except for the 4 currently sold Tesla models, they are still garbage.

 

Just like  cell phones were garbage for decades, and mobile phone forerunners before that were garbage for decades.

 

51 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

but they still have many limitations of which is they are still emitting a lot of CO2 and VOCs, but for some reason the EV fans don't care.

I don’t know what a VOC is, but you are right, I do not care. I didn’t buy an EV to save the planet. If they produce more CO2 than ICE cars, that’s a bonus to me.

 

And all those Texans lining up to take delivery of a Tesla pickup truck built in their state don’t want to save the planet either. 

 

Once EVs are cheaper than ICE cars, it will be over, just like it was over for CRT TVs when flat panels became cheaper.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dashinka 24,488]

54 minutes ago, Mike E said:

😂
 

I don’t give a flying flip about the environment. I totally embrace the polar caps melting and flooding NYC and SF. Because the alternative, an ice age, will end civilization. Reducing CO2 is nihilism. 
 

And I think we have too many bears, rattle snakes, scorpions, etc. I want them to go extinct. Apex predator, man! 

 

* regenerative braking, so fewer brake jobs

* less maintenance

* no need to leave the house to re-energize

* no transmission

* better acceleration

* quieter

* does not fund  attacks like ICE cars funded 9/11. Bin Laden don’t ride shotgun in my Tesla.

 

And most of that time EVs were garbage. In fact except for the 4 currently sold Tesla models, they are still garbage.

 

Just like  cell phones were garbage for decades, and mobile phone forerunners before that were garbage for decades.

 

I don’t know what a VOC is, but you are right, I do not care. I didn’t buy an EV to save the planet. If they produce more CO2 than ICE cars, that’s a bonus to me.

 

And all those Texans lining up to take delivery of a Tesla pickup truck built in their state don’t want to save the planet either. 

 

Once EVs are cheaper than ICE cars, it will be over, just like it was over for CRT TVs when flat panels became cheaper.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, I understand you bought your Tesla for the fun of driving.  Btw, the attacks will come as more EVs are used.  If you think oil is fought over too much, wait until the scarce materials needed for EVs are in big demand and there are only a few players/countries in control.  I really do not understand the big environmental groups that are in fact demanding EVs for environmental reasons and how they are so against the mining needed for the EV materials.  NIMBY I guess.

 

I am fine with EVs as I said, I really don't care that they accelerate so quickly, not a selling point.  I do care about economics (I know, not a huge factor for you) and I say let them stand on their own, and people can decide for themselves.  Maybe when EVs make economic sense, I might buy one.  Regardless, I would never park one in an attached garage of my house, but that is just from first hand experience on what they will do eventually.

[Mike E 11,739]

49 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

I say let them stand on their own, and people can decide for themselves

Precisely. And the economics are inevitable.

[Dashinka 24,488]

1 hour ago, Mike E said:

Precisely. And the economics are inevitable.

When I figured it for my wife's vehicle replacement using comparably equipped vehicles, I got a payback of 13+ years and that assumed no electricity rate increases and only charging at home.  The economics did not make any sense for a vehicle we were only going to keep 3 years. 

[Pooky 3,781]

19 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

Is It Time to Ban Electric Vehicles?

 

The New York Fire Department recently reported that so far this year there have been 108 lithium-ion battery fires in New York City, which have injured 66 people and killed 13.  [...]

 

https://townhall.com/columnists/stephenmoore/2023/08/15/is-it-time-to-ban-electric-vehicles-n2627008

Lithium Ion batteries will be history within 10 years, which will go a long way to eliminating part of the risk. A combination of reactionary safety regulations and alternate battery technologies, such as solid state batteries, should see them ushered off into the sunset like Betamax tapes.

[TBoneTX 45,266]

6 hours ago, Mike E said:

what a VOC is

Volatile organic compound, I think.

Edited August 16, 2023 by TBoneTX

[Mike E 11,739]

15 minutes ago, TBoneTX said:

Volatile organic compound, I think.

Sir: this a family website!

[TBoneTX 45,266]

48 minutes ago, Mike E said:

Sir: this a family website!

The devil, you say, sirrah!

[Dashinka 24,488]

14 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

Volatile organic compound, I think.

Yes, volatile organic compounds, the stuff we used to call "new care smell".  All the plastics, adhesives, films, coatings, etc. (most of which comes from bad oil), emits vapors of relatively heavy organic compounds that for gasoline/ICE vehicles are regulated.  Not really sure why they are ignored in EVs.  Btw, VOC are a large component of smog.

[TBoneTX 45,266]

Man's Hellish Family Trip With an Electric Truck Is a Warning to All About These Vehicles

 

[...] Dalbir Bala, a resident of Winnipeg, bought an electric Ford F-150 for $85,000 and was forced to abandon it after [...]

 

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2023/08/17/biggest-scam-of-modern-times-dad-bought-an-electric-truck-things-turned-out-poorly-n2627070