Electric vehicles have an efficiency problem

[Boiler 45,441]

I just went to Whole Foods, paid with my Palm, het Big Brother, so obviously half the cars are Tesla's, now one a X? was parked at the nearest spot, Disabled Parking Spot, OK but you really  need to take the bike rack off the back.

[TBoneTX 45,244]

38 minutes ago, Boiler said:

need to take the bike rack off the back

Might have been an "abled" driver chauffeuring a handicapped person.  Did you see a handicap placard?

[Boiler 45,441]

Nope

 

I looked

[TBoneTX 45,244]

2 hours ago, Boiler said:

Nope

I looked

That sucks (= lack of placard, not your having looked).

[TBoneTX 45,244]

California Cops Are Finding Out Teslas Are 'Nearly Unusable' As Police Cruisers

 

Police in California are experiencing what happens when good intentions crash into reality.  Police departments are transitioning to battery powered vehicles but those vehicles come with challenges that make cops' jobs more difficult.

California is all in on an electric future, planning to ban the sale of gas and diesel powered cars starting in 2035.  To get ready for this brave new world some police departments started with buying a few Teslas.  These departments immediately ran into serious problems using the vehicles as cruisers, such as [...]

 

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/california-cops-finding-teslas-nearly-165500844.html

[Boiler 45,441]

Looks like Rivian is going to run out of money, Tesla are OK and well if the Dems were serious about electrification, they are not, the obvious solution would be to allow imports of Chinese EVs which are affordable.

[Boiler 45,441]

Ford paying dealers to take F-150 Lightnings from new EV distribution centers
Dealers can make $22,500 by ordering 15 F-150 Lightnings from regional centers designed to reduce carrying costs and give customers quicker access.

 

https://www.autonews.com/dealers/why-ford-paying-dealers-stock-more-2024-f-150-lightnings

[Boiler 45,441]

I thought this was interesting and the headline is about EVs but having recently spent a couple of days driving a friends new car which has a lot of toys many of which I did not get to, and mine which is not new at all but cheap to operate and fix, his conclusion is the same as mine.

 

 

[mam521 2,056]

The headline is a bit misleading considering the conclusion was modern used cars, in general, are prohibitively expensive to repair, especially when you rely on the dealer.  I don't disagree per se; we are the technological junk epoch for sure and it is extremely disappointing to see the lack of ability not only to repair things, but the skillsets necessary to do so.  I grew up with carbureted engines where my uncles and my brother would rebuild and modify on weekends.  No dependence on dealerships, code scanners and software to tell you it's junk!

 

We just traded in our truck a couple of weeks ago because the airbag suspension was starting to fail and it was going to cost $4k+ to replace (yes, replace.  It would seem that troubleshooting for these systems isn't a thing, it's just replace) or $2-3k to convert to a standard shock suspension.  

 

As for the batteries - it's like any "sustainable" energy "solution"...the manufacturers have had YEARS to figure out recycling and disposal, but unless the government funds it, they refuse to put the resources in to make it happen.  California's aging solar panels are a huge problem now as they are reaching end of life and instead of being recycled, they are hitting landfills.  Tesla's first EV came to market in 2008. There's still limited EV battery recycling, especially considering that's 18 years worth of time to sort the process out and build the facilities.  Just like relationships, it's fine to be excited about the wedding, but you have to remember the marriage comes after and that's the hard part.  

[Dashinka 24,478]

2 hours ago, mam521 said:

The headline is a bit misleading considering the conclusion was modern used cars, in general, are prohibitively expensive to repair, especially when you rely on the dealer.  I don't disagree per se; we are the technological junk epoch for sure and it is extremely disappointing to see the lack of ability not only to repair things, but the skillsets necessary to do so.  I grew up with carbureted engines where my uncles and my brother would rebuild and modify on weekends.  No dependence on dealerships, code scanners and software to tell you it's junk!

 

We just traded in our truck a couple of weeks ago because the airbag suspension was starting to fail and it was going to cost $4k+ to replace (yes, replace.  It would seem that troubleshooting for these systems isn't a thing, it's just replace) or $2-3k to convert to a standard shock suspension.  

 

As for the batteries - it's like any "sustainable" energy "solution"...the manufacturers have had YEARS to figure out recycling and disposal, but unless the government funds it, they refuse to put the resources in to make it happen.  California's aging solar panels are a huge problem now as they are reaching end of life and instead of being recycled, they are hitting landfills.  Tesla's first EV came to market in 2008. There's still limited EV battery recycling, especially considering that's 18 years worth of time to sort the process out and build the facilities.  Just like relationships, it's fine to be excited about the wedding, but you have to remember the marriage comes after and that's the hard part.  

The big issue with the recycling is the cost to actually do the separations.  EV battery packs are not just Li, Co, and Ni, there is so much plastic, some exotic, some over molded, intertwined with the batteries and inside the pack, add to that some toxic electrolytes, and it ends up that mining new raw materials is cheaper and easier than trying to recycle.  I am amazed that the recycling industry has no caught up, but keep in mind from 2008 until just a few years ago, the numbers of EVs on the road was still quite small, and most of those were relatively new, so not a lot of salvage material in the pipeline.  
 

The bigger issue is the battery changes over time effectively obsoleting cars that are less than 10 yrs old if they do need a battery pack.  EVs are essentially disposable vehicles now.

[Boiler 45,441]

The one that I think has been around a long time in numbers is the Prius.

 

Now quite possible to replace that battery at reasonable cost and using better technology.

 

There is no reason this needs to be an issue, all cars have batteries now and people are well used to replacing them. I use AA, AAA and 9v, not many things now take 9v OK I have Computers and watches and a few other things that have rechargeable batteries but nothing of consequence cannot be replaced.

 

So why are car batteries not standardized when used as a powers source for EVs and Hybrids?

 

I agree that repairing something which is made with Labour that costs a few dollars an hour with Labour that costs $100 an hour is not going to make sense. So you idularise things, plug and play.

 

The screens always amuse me, all seem specific, why do you not have a slot you can plug the latest IPad whatever in.

 

If you want to have a home back up, not using a vehicle batteries come in modules..

[Pooky 3,780]

On 10/26/2024 at 12:47 PM, Dashinka said:

The big issue with the recycling is the cost to actually do the separations.  EV battery packs are not just Li, Co, and Ni, there is so much plastic, some exotic, some over molded, intertwined with the batteries and inside the pack, add to that some toxic electrolytes, and it ends up that mining new raw materials is cheaper and easier than trying to recycle.  I am amazed that the recycling industry has no caught up, but keep in mind from 2008 until just a few years ago, the numbers of EVs on the road was still quite small, and most of those were relatively new, so not a lot of salvage material in the pipeline.  
 

The bigger issue is the battery changes over time effectively obsoleting cars that are less than 10 yrs old if they do need a battery pack.  EVs are essentially disposable vehicles now.

Until a viable alternative to the lithium-based battery is available, electric cars will remain an outlier. The environmental cost is unsustainable and the raw material sources remain a source of global economic friction. The West, in particular the USA, can not and will not allow China to become the dominant market force in EV production and sales.

 

Solid state batteries looked to be the way forward. With greater capacity and faster recharging, but developed has been slower than anticipated. 
 

Anyone aiming for 2035, or even 2050, as an ICE cut-off date, is being impracticality optimistic. Without significant and well-planned investment in an electric charging infrastructure, unlike the $7.5bn investment con-job perpetrated by the Biden-Harris administration, the ICE will always remain the most accessible and efficient means of ground transportation.

[mam521 2,056]

BYD = Buy Your Dreams.  China encourages you to BYD!

 

Once upon a time, leaded fuels were cheaper than unleaded fuels.  Manufacturers introduced engines with catalytic converters and told people they couldn't put leaded fuel in them.  People went "screw that, I'm not paying more because you said so" and put leaded fuel in these vehicles.  So, manufacturers made the nozzle holes where the fuel nozzle slotted in smaller and made unleaded fuel nozzles smaller.  People drilled out the hole to make the leaded nozzle fit.  Finally, they dropped the price of unleaded fuel to be cheaper than that of leaded fuel.  I'm sure there was an apparent hit taken for it, but people put the unleaded fuel in their engines with catalytic converters and we saw atmospheric lead values drop.  The intention was whole hearted and good because lead is harmful to one's health, but very few people are willing to pay more for something when they don't see the value and I would wager with the amount of misinformation out there, it's even more extreme.  

 

Investment into recycling and separation isn't lucrative and building a new landfill appears easier (in reality, it's not).  As it is, EV's are heavily subsidized by government.  Most "alternate energy" is.  Until there's incentive to "do it right" as Mike Holmes would say, no one is going to take that plunge and do it.  Virtue signaling, at best.  Money is in mining and refinement, so until that changes, that will be the path forward.  

 

Look at single use plastics.  You have plenty of corn based, industrial compostable options which are pretty damned close to petroleum based plastics in terms of consumer use and feel, but where are the composting facilities?  They don't exist.  Unless the government steps in and builds them.  

[Boiler 45,441]

Showing my age but I do remember unleaded coming on but no stories about anything being drilled out.

 

And the unleaded hoses were green and I come here and Green is Diesel.

 

Still have to double check myself.

 

There is nothing new about Battery vehicles and I generally like the concept, it is its implementation that amuses me.

 

Certainly in the US, to some extent in Euroland the focus has been on subsidising expensive vehicles, there is little in the affordable category.

 

There is no reason why that should be, elsewhere there are plenty of cheap EVs.

 

I was in Home Depot the other day looking at tools, now I like different tools from different manufacturers for different uses. No one Manufacturer has a monopoly. But the Batteries are specific.

 

Then I was looking at Battery Generators, and you can no get quite a nice one for $600, perhaps corded tools will return, lighter, more powerful and no interchangeability issues.

 

 

[Dashinka 24,478]

1 hour ago, Boiler said:

Showing my age but I do remember unleaded coming on but no stories about anything being drilled out.

 

And the unleaded hoses were green and I come here and Green is Diesel.

 

Still have to double check myself.

 

There is nothing new about Battery vehicles and I generally like the concept, it is its implementation that amuses me.

 

Certainly in the US, to some extent in Euroland the focus has been on subsidising expensive vehicles, there is little in the affordable category.

 

There is no reason why that should be, elsewhere there are plenty of cheap EVs.

 

I was in Home Depot the other day looking at tools, now I like different tools from different manufacturers for different uses. No one Manufacturer has a monopoly. But the Batteries are specific.

 

Then I was looking at Battery Generators, and you can no get quite a nice one for $600, perhaps corded tools will return, lighter, more powerful and no interchangeability issues.

 

 

Had a fire run once due to spilled fuel.  Turns out a couple from Montana were filling their diesel F350 that was towing a 5th wheel and the guy found out that the green handled nozzle was in fact gasoline.  He knew he would ruin his engine if he ran it as he was nearly empty when he started filling, so he unhitched the truck and pushed it to the grass and started draining the tank by disconnecting the fuel line and running the in tank pump.  A cop also in the gas station was not impressed, so he called us, and he also cited the driver dumping the fuel.  I asked the driver why he didn't just buy a siphon device and give away the fuel for free until his tank was empty again.  He said he hadn't thought of that.  Moral of the story, never ever rely on nozzle colors.

 

Btw, I also lived through the transition to unleaded, and I do not remember a lot of modifications to allow usage of leaded fuel.  Also back then most gas stations were full service, so often it was not up to the driver.