Proof of being unmarried.

[Boiler 45,442]

My understanding that PI and CENOMAR is linked to the mail order bride business, well that is how it arose. Manilla is of course the capital of the K1. Anyway it is part of the PI requirements to leave. 

[Kanke 11]

36 minutes ago, Chancy said:

 

The official Department of State website proves you're definitely wrong.  I know that Philippine nationals are required to present a "certificate of no marriage" document, but that is in the tiny minority of nationalities required to do so.  Go ahead and count how many consulates require it.  We'll wait.  Here's the full list -- https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/Visa-Reciprocity-and-Civil-Documents-by-Country.html

 

As you yourself admitted it, the fact that this document is requested at least by some embassies (in the tiny minority nationalities, as you described it) shows that the non-marital certificate is a legitimate way to support your no marriage status. 

[Chancy 6,241]

18 minutes ago, Boiler said:

My understanding that PI and CENOMAR is linked to the mail order bride business, well that is how it arose. Manilla is of course the capital of the K1. Anyway it is part of the PI requirements to leave. 

 

CENOMAR is required from Filipinos because the Philippines is the only country (other than the Vatican) where you cannot get a divorce.  Some visa applicants who were married in the Philippines think that they could just marry their partner in the US and their Philippine marriage would not count.  The US government requires the CENOMAR from Filipinos to show that either they were never married in the Philippines or that their Philippine marriage had been terminated.  CENOMAR is NOT intended to prove that the Filipino has never been married anywhere in the world.  I'm a living example -- I presented a CENOMAR to the US consulate in the Philippines when I applied for a SPOUSE visa.  The consulate staff had no complaints with it. 

 

[Boiler 45,442]

2 minutes ago, Chancy said:

 

CENOMAR is required from Filipinos because the Philippines is the only country (other than the Vatican) where you cannot get a divorce.  Some visa applicants who were married in the Philippines think that they could just marry their partner in the US and their Philippine marriage would not count.  The US government requires the CENOMAR from Filipinos to show that either they were never married in the Philippines or that their Philippine marriage had been terminated.  CENOMAR is NOT intended to prove that the Filipino has never been married anywhere in the world.  I'm a living example -- I presented a CENOMAR to the US consulate in the Philippines when I applied for a SPOUSE visa.  The consulate staff had no complaints with it. 

 

I seem to recollect that PI also allows you to register overseas marriages, now that is not common either. US does not, UK does not.

[Chancy 6,241]

10 minutes ago, Kanke said:

As you yourself admitted it, the fact that this document is requested at least by some embassies (in the tiny minority nationalities, as you described it) shows that the non-marital certificate is a legitimate way to support your no marriage status. 

 

Maybe you lack sleep or coffee or something to comprehend my post and the DOS Reciprocity pages?  Please read it again.

 

The CENOMAR is not proof that a person is not married.  It only shows that the person was not married in the country that issued the certificate.  It doesn't show that the person is not married anywhere in the world.  Again, I'm an example -- I had been married for years when I had my spouse visa interview, yet I presented my Philippine-issued "Certificate of No Marriage" at the US consulate.  Obviously, the consulate staff did not think the CENOMAR showed I was not married, or they would not have granted me a SPOUSE visa.  They just wanted to see that there's no Philippine marriage that I was trying to escape from.  The consulate staff were perfectly fine with my US marriage certificate, which was issued years before my Philippine CENOMAR document.

 

[SalishSea 17,801]

7 hours ago, Kanke said:

You see, referring to the non-marital certificate, earlier you said "such documents are not requested or required by the state department", which is a complete bogus. As a matter of fact,  it's a requirement by most embassies and immigration departments of most countries to support your claim of being single with a non-marital document.

Having said that, you are still not able to explain why embassies have to request this document, if it doesn't serve them to as evidence to proof that the person is never married.

This indicates that the most acceptable documentation to proof that you are not married is by showing an authentic non-marital certificate, end of strory! Unless you can proof me wrong on my statement that "immigration departments and embassies are requesting this document as proof of no marriage", it appears pointless and illogical to discuss further. 

You are hilarious.

[beloved_dingo 1,976]

4 hours ago, Kanke said:

As you yourself admitted it, the fact that this document is requested at least by some embassies (in the tiny minority nationalities, as you described it) shows that the non-marital certificate is a legitimate way to support your no marriage status. 

Incorrect. 

[SalishSea 17,801]

5 hours ago, Kanke said:

As you yourself admitted it, the fact that this document is requested at least by some embassies (in the tiny minority nationalities, as you described it) shows that the non-marital certificate is a legitimate way to support your no marriage status. 

What do you suppose the DOS does for the 99.9% of countries that have no such thing as CENOMAR?

 

 

[Mundo254 49]

I appreciate the discussion which has been very insightful.

 

From your inputs it seems to me one cannot really prove through documentation that they are unmarried, more so for countries that don't have the CENOMAR. Does that mean, other than the phillipines where such a document exists,  the embassies have no way of acertaining if one is unmarried? How then do they go about cases where they may have suspicions of ones marital status? 

[Crazy Cat 41,806]

2 hours ago, Mundo254 said:

I appreciate the discussion which has been very insightful.

 

From your inputs it seems to me one cannot really prove through documentation that they are unmarried, more so for countries that don't have the CENOMAR. Does that mean, other than the phillipines where such a document exists,  the embassies have no way of acertaining if one is unmarried? How then do they go about cases where they may have suspicions of ones marital status? 

The only situation which comes to mind is when a beneficiary has previously claimed to be married, for example, on a US tourist visa application.  In that case, the consulate will ask for documentation that the previous marriage was legally terminated.  As of now, I have never seen anyone successfully overcome that obstacle.  We never hear from those folks again.

Edited May 17, 2023 by Crazy Cat

[Kanke 11]

20 hours ago, Chancy said:

 

Maybe you lack sleep or coffee or something to comprehend my post and the DOS Reciprocity pages?  Please read it again.

 

The CENOMAR is not proof that a person is not married.  It only shows that the person was not married in the country that issued the certificate.  It doesn't show that the person is not married anywhere in the world.  Again, I'm an example -- I had been married for years when I had my spouse visa interview, yet I presented my Philippine-issued "Certificate of No Marriage" at the US consulate.  Obviously, the consulate staff did not think the CENOMAR showed I was not married, or they would not have granted me a SPOUSE visa.  They just wanted to see that there's no Philippine marriage that I was trying to escape from.  The consulate staff were perfectly fine with my US marriage certificate, which was issued years before my Philippine CENOMAR document.

 

Leave your nonsense aside and support your arguments with evidences or else zip it here.

Back to the issue, it might be so in your case and of course you had to present the CENOMAR to support that you had no other marriage, as you were waiting for spousal visa. Here, we may assume and it makes sense to argue one possible reason why the embassy needed the certificate is to just proof that you are not attempting to escape from any other marriage. However, your scenario becomes irrelevant to cases like F2B and F11, where the benificiaries are required to remain unmarried/single throughout their process, not only in their country, but also any where they lived. Not being so jeopardises their visa cases. For such cases, there is no other way or documentation the benificiaries can proof their no-marriage status except by presenting CENOMAR. I have challenged the participants of this discussion including you to suggest any other way or option to reslove such issues, non of you suggested one. Infact there is no other explanation why these days quite a number of US and even other embassies request this document except to ascertain that the applicant isn't married or single.
I had my cousin and brother who had gone through similar scenario when they appeared for their family preference immigrant visa. They were stuck and required to present a CENOMAR during their interview at the embassies. And after presenting those documents, the embassy granted them their visa. If this certificate had no relevance to proof the no-marriage of the applicant of F2B and F11, then why did the embassies have to request it???

[Crazy Cat 41,806]

7 minutes ago, Kanke said:

Leave your nonsense aside and support your arguments with evidences or else zip it here.

That is a violation of the terms of service to which you agreed when joining VJ.  

Edited May 17, 2023 by Crazy Cat

[Ban Hammer 13,326]

note that the terms of service state:
By way of example, and not as a limitation, you agree that when using the Service, you will not:
Restrict or inhibit any other user from using and enjoying the Forums.

 

any further posts attempting to restrict or inhibit other members will enjoy a suspension from this site.

charles
vj moderation

https://www.visajourney.com/terms-of-service/

[Boiler 45,442]

People lie, sometimes they are caught sometimes they are not.

 

A few times I have seen f2b's forget to mention they married, move to the US and then petition their spouse. And ooops the date of the marriage is before they obtained their GC. Obviously that does not end well.

[beloved_dingo 1,976]

3 hours ago, Kanke said:

Leave your nonsense aside and support your arguments with evidences or else zip it here.

Back to the issue, it might be so in your case and of course you had to present the CENOMAR to support that you had no other marriage, as you were waiting for spousal visa. Here, we may assume and it makes sense to argue one possible reason why the embassy needed the certificate is to just proof that you are not attempting to escape from any other marriage. However, your scenario becomes irrelevant to cases like F2B and F11, where the benificiaries are required to remain unmarried/single throughout their process, not only in their country, but also any where they lived. Not being so jeopardises their visa cases. For such cases, there is no other way or documentation the benificiaries can proof their no-marriage status except by presenting CENOMAR. I have challenged the participants of this discussion including you to suggest any other way or option to reslove such issues, non of you suggested one. Infact there is no other explanation why these days quite a number of US and even other embassies request this document except to ascertain that the applicant isn't married or single.
I had my cousin and brother who had gone through similar scenario when they appeared for their family preference immigrant visa. They were stuck and required to present a CENOMAR during their interview at the embassies. And after presenting those documents, the embassy granted them their visa. If this certificate had no relevance to proof the no-marriage of the applicant of F2B and F11, then why did the embassies have to request it???

If USCIS suspects someone is married and their visa hinges on not being married (like a K-1 visa), there is no document that can be provided to override the suspicion. K-1s that face this are denied, full stop. We have seen this time and time again, where people pursuing a fiancé visa get caught calling each other "husband/wife", or they have a religious ceremony, etc. and there is nothing they can do to prove they are not married.