Wife wants to divorce while pending i-751

[Mike E 11,733]

9 minutes ago, Boiler said:

Not sure how the rest of it comes into play

 

58 minutes ago, Boiler said:

Assuming you do not waive what happened in their face

Any encounter with DHS is waving it in their face because every DHS officer can see the full A record. And a CBPO and BPO has instant access to even more records. Like divorce records.
 

And yet to fully enjoy the benefits of being an LPR in the U.S. one will inevitably re-encounter DHS.  

Edited June 23, 2023 by Mike E

[Boiler 44,963]

Just now, Mike E said:

 

Any encounter with DHS is waving it in their face because every DHS officer can see the full A record. And a CBPO and BPO has instant access to even more records. Like divorce records.
 

And yet to fully enjoy the benefits of being an LPR in the U.S. one will inevitably re-encounter DHS.  

There is nothing to see in the A record.

 

I am not convinced it is that immediate for someone to pull up Divorce records as well. I am not saying somebody could not, there is no national database and why would someone want to unless there is a MUCH bigger story going on. Realistically the only way this is going to come up is if a N400 is filed.

[Jasskatten 23]

6 minutes ago, Mike E said:

 

 

And OP will not have to explain it if OP takes your advice?

 

Can you cite the USCIS instructions to hide an in progress divorce filed after a joint I-751?

 

Very likely he will not have to explain it if he takes my (and his lawyer's) advice. Because he has not lied, and he has not misrepresented himself. IF asked, just tell the truth, I got divorced after the green card was approved. Very common situation, unlikely to cause any confusion. So your scenario seems exceedingly unlikely, if not impossible.

 

Can you cite the instruction that you need to report divorce proceedings to USCIS?

 

I personally would just follow the instructions on the NOA sent out from USCIS, where the only information they ask you to provide is

* Re-entry permit if you are outside of US more than one year.

* Change of adress

 

But neither you nor me know the details of this case, which is why i would advise the op to get a second opinion from a second lawyer if he's unsure.

 

[Boiler 44,963]

1 minute ago, Jasskatten said:

Very likely he will not have to explain it if he takes my (and his lawyer's) advice. Because he has not lied, and he has not misrepresented himself. IF asked, just tell the truth, I got divorced after the green card was approved. Very common situation, unlikely to cause any confusion. So your scenario seems exceedingly unlikely, if not impossible.

 

Can you cite the instruction that you need to report divorce proceedings to USCIS?

 

I personally would just follow the instructions on the NOA sent out from USCIS, where the only information they ask you to provide is

* Re-entry permit if you are outside of US more than one year.

* Change of adress

 

But neither you nor me know the details of this case, which is why i would advise the op to get a second opinion from a second lawyer if he's unsure.

 

FYI this has happened, and has come up in the N400. Now obviously no 2 cases are identical but not a situation I would like to explain.

[Mike E 11,733]

9 minutes ago, Boiler said:

There is nothing to see in the A record.

 

I am not convinced it is that immediate for someone to pull up Divorce records as well. I am not saying somebody could not, there is no national database and why would someone want to unless there is a MUCH bigger story going on. Realistically the only way this is going to come up is if a N400 is filed.

 Officers charged with ferreting out immigration fraud  do not have access to a database of divorce records, records which are a matter of public record?

 

The only way? What happens when the ex files I-865? Or another I-130? Or OP files I-130.

 

Friday must be hopium day. 

 

 

Edited June 23, 2023 by Mike E

[Boiler 44,963]

1 minute ago, Mike E said:

 Officers charged with ferreting out immigration fraud  do not have access to a database of divorce records, records which are a matter of public record.

 

The only way? What happens when the ex files I-865? Or another I-130? Or OP files I-130.

 

Friday must be hopium day. 

 

 

I did not say it was impossible, but neither is me winning the Lottery. I do not run my life on the basis I will win the lottery.

 

There is no law book answer to this, I express my opinion, as always OP can do what they want.

[Jasskatten 23]

7 minutes ago, Boiler said:

FYI this has happened, and has come up in the N400. Now obviously no 2 cases are identical but not a situation I would like to explain.

Thanks for the info! 

 

Could you tell exactly what happened, did they just ask about it, or was the N400 denied/Green card revoked?

 

In my (possibly naive) scenario they would ask about it, OP would explain that since he was not divorced yet, he did not think he needed to inform USCIS, and that would be it. Awkward, but not the end of the world.

[Boiler 44,963]

Just now, Jasskatten said:

Thanks for the info! 

 

Could you tell exactly what happened, did they just ask about it, or was the N400 denied/Green card revoked?

 

In my (possibly naive) scenario they would ask about it, OP would explain that since he was not divorced yet, he did not think he needed to inform USCIS, and that would be it. Awkward, but not the end of the world.

This is fairly new situation, the last time I came across this the person wanted to file a WoM to get a decision, the person had applied without a Lawyer and the Lawyer consulted was wondering if this was a sensible thing to do.

 

There could be people out there who have sailed through the process and not said anything. My impression is that when it comes to the N400 they will and they do check all the dates etc.

 

A Lawyer can provide opinions on what to do, the consequences, as we are here, but in the end it is the Client who decides what route they want to take.

[beloved_dingo 1,974]

You know, it's funny because I also don't see anywhere USCIS explicitly states that you must inform them of a pending divorce, but the way the guidance is written, it's like they assume that is a no brainer that you need to inform USCIS (see bold portion below). But without clearer language, it kind of gives people like OP a loophole. I don't agree with taking advantage of it, though. 

 

If you are in Divorce Proceedings but are not yet Divorced

If you are still married, but legally separated and/or in pending divorce or annulment proceedings and you filed a waiver request, we will issue a Request for Evidence (RFE) specifically asking for a copy of the final divorce decree or annulment, if applicable.

 

If you are still married, but legally separated and/or in pending divorce or annulment proceedings, and you filed a Form I-751 jointly, we will issue an RFE specifically asking for a copy of the final divorce decree or annulment and a statement that you would like to have your joint filing Form I-751 treated as a waiver.

 

After we receive the final divorce decree or annulment within the specified time period, we will amend the petition to indicate you have established  you are eligible to apply for a waiver of the joint filing requirement based on the termination of the marriage.

Edited June 23, 2023 by beloved_dingo

[Boiler 44,963]

1 minute ago, beloved_dingo said:

You know, it's funny because I also don't see anywhere USCIS explicitly states that you must inform them of a pending divorce, but the way the guidance is written, it's like they assume that is a no brainer that you need to inform USCIS (see bold portion below). But without clearer language, it kind of gives people like OP a loophole. I don't agree with taking advantage of it, though. 

 

If you are in Divorce Proceedings but are not yet Divorced

If you are still married, but legally separated and/or in pending divorce or annulment proceedings and you filed a waiver request, we will issue a Request for Evidence (RFE) specifically asking for a copy of the final divorce decree or annulment, if applicable.

 

If you are still married, but legally separated and/or in pending divorce or annulment proceedings, and you filed a Form I-751 jointly, we will issue an RFE specifically asking for a copy of the final divorce decree or annulment and a statement that you would like to have your joint filing Form I-751 treated as a waiver.

 

After we receive the final divorce decree or annulment within the specified time period, we will amend the petition to indicate you have established  you are eligible to apply for a waiver of the joint filing requirement based on the termination of the marriage.

Who wants to end up in front of an IJ arguing that? We start of from the basic premise of why would you want to go there?

[beloved_dingo 1,974]

7 minutes ago, Boiler said:

Who wants to end up in front of an IJ arguing that? We start of from the basic premise of why would you want to go there?

Not sure what you mean. If I were OP I would leave sleeping dogs lie at this point, but never apply for citizenship.

 

But I think he should have informed USCIS of the divorce while the I-751 was pending. However, now that ship has sailed. 

Edited June 23, 2023 by beloved_dingo

[Boiler 44,963]

Just now, beloved_dingo said:

Not sure what you mean. If I were OP I would leave sleeping dogs lie at this point, but never apply for citizenship.

 

But I think he should have informed USCIS of the divorce while the I-751 was pending. However, now that ship has sailed. 

Agree with your second point.

 

He is where he is, if he just stays a LPR then except in the most unusual set of circumstances, never say never, I do not see this coming up.

 

If he wants to roll the dice I for one would be interested to see what happens. I just would not want to be the person involved and certainly not something to contemplate without competent legal representation.

[Mike E 11,733]

11 minutes ago, Jasskatten said:

Thanks for the info! 

 

Could you tell exactly what happened, did they just ask about it, or was the N400 denied/Green card revoked?

11 minutes ago, Jasskatten said:

 

In my (possibly naive) scenario they would ask about it, OP would explain that since he was not divorced yet, he did not think he needed to inform USCIS, and that would be it. Awkward, but not the end of the world.

Oh my. Now I see why you have been providing such advice to OP.

 

22 minutes ago, Boiler said:

I did not say it was impossible, but neither is me winning the Lottery. I do not run my life on the basis I will win the lottery.

 I run my life by not equating risks that are under 50 percent with the risk I will win PowerBall.

 

I will probably not die when I drive to the grocery store without my seat belt on for the sole purpose of buying a powrball ticket.

 

But the risk of me dying on that drive is orders of magnitude higher than me winning powerball. Hence:

 

* I always wear my seat belt

* I drive for the sole purpose of buying a powerball ticket. 

 

And the risk that a DHS officer notices OP won a joint RoC while divorcing is higher than the risk of OP winning powerball. 

 

[Jasskatten 23]

45 minutes ago, beloved_dingo said:

You know, it's funny because I also don't see anywhere USCIS explicitly states that you must inform them of a pending divorce, but the way the guidance is written, it's like they assume that is a no brainer that you need to inform USCIS (see bold portion below). But without clearer language, it kind of gives people like OP a loophole. I don't agree with taking advantage of it, though. 

 

If you are in Divorce Proceedings but are not yet Divorced

If you are still married, but legally separated and/or in pending divorce or annulment proceedings and you filed a waiver request, we will issue a Request for Evidence (RFE) specifically asking for a copy of the final divorce decree or annulment, if applicable.

 

If you are still married, but legally separated and/or in pending divorce or annulment proceedings, and you filed a Form I-751 jointly, we will issue an RFE specifically asking for a copy of the final divorce decree or annulment and a statement that you would like to have your joint filing Form I-751 treated as a waiver.

 

After we receive the final divorce decree or annulment within the specified time period, we will amend the petition to indicate you have established  you are eligible to apply for a waiver of the joint filing requirement based on the termination of the marriage.

I agree, it is not very clear, but it seems to me it is relevant that nowhere do they say you are required/must inform USCIS of divorce proceedings, but they do explicitly point that out for other information. They also say they will ask for a waiver request in the RFE, so they seem you assume that you did not request a waiver, for whatever that is worth.

 

Since it is not clear, in my opinion it is good to check with a lawyer. And if not sure, get a second opinion from a second lawyer... (Sorry for repeating myself, but that is a very important point in my opinion.)

 

Regarding the case that boiler and MikeE reference, that case seems to have more going on than just a divorce. Didn't read the whole thread, it was looong, but he did adjust from a tourist visa (so basically proof of misrepresentation already), and his info in N-400 and i-751 did not match. Red flags all over the place for that guy.

[Mike E 11,733]

 

The dates might have been wrong because that OP knew the case was fraud.

 

And now I am out; watching accident scenes is not my idea of entertainment.