Wife wants to divorce while pending i-751

[Mike E 11,739]

On 4/22/2023 at 1:29 PM, Mike E said:

Imprudent strategy: 

 

“The statute and regulations require approval of the 1-751 petition if the above conditions are met. USCIS may not deny a petition solely because the spouses are separated and/or have initiated divorce or annulment proceedings.”

 

Some lawyers and apparently you are basing your advice on the above. However the memo goes on to say:

 

“However, legal separation or initiation of divorce or annulment proceedings may suggest that the CPR entered into the marriage for the sole purpose of procuring permanent resident status.”

 

So USCIS is saying a divorce filing during pending I-751 raises suspicion of fraud.

 

“If a Service Center ISO encounters an I-751 petition' jointly filed by co-petitioners who are still married but are legally separated and/or are in pending divorce or annulment proceedings, the ISO issues the CPR

a Request for Evidence with an 87-day response period. In the RFE, the ISO specifically asks the CPR to provide a copy of the final divorce decree or annulment along with a request stating he or she would like to have the joint filing petition treated as a waiver petition. This affords the CPR an opportunity to provide evidence that the proceedings have been finalized and it affords the CPR an opportunity to request a waiver to the joint filing without refiling”

 

How would the ISO learn of pending divorce accept by notifying USCIS?

 

Clearly, USCIS is saying proactive notice of a pending divorce is likely to remove / reduce the cloud of suspicion.

 

Otherwise the cloud of suspicion gathers when the CPR comes to the attention of USCIS again, such as when filing I-130

or N-400. We see this periodically on visajourney.com and Reddit. 
 

Ask your lawyer if she is aware of the memo I linked.

 

 

6 minutes ago, Jasskatten said:

 Read through the thread, and so far noone has provided any document/guidance/instruction from USCIS saying you need to inform them of divorce proceedings after you have filed I-751.

No one huh?

 

Wow

Edited June 23, 2023 by Mike E

[Jasskatten 23]

In your quoted message, i note that nowhere does it say that an applicant need to inform USCIS of divorce proceedings that started after they have filed i-751 jointly.

 

You do ask how USCIS would find out other than the petitioner informing them:

* Through a background check

* Someone other than the petioner informing them

* The petitioner gets a RFE (unrelated to the divorce proceedings, for instance because USCIS wants updated evidence because of the time elapsed since application), and the petitioner informs them at that point.

* The petitioner gets called for an interview, and informs them at that point.

[Mike E 11,739]

16 minutes ago, Jasskatten said:

In your quoted message, i note that nowhere does it say that an applicant need to inform USCIS of divorce proceedings that started after they have filed i-751 jointly

 

36 minutes ago, Mike E said:

However, legal separation or initiation of divorce or annulment proceedings may suggest that the CPR entered into the marriage for the sole purpose of procuring permanent resident status.”

Reading between the lines, hiding the initiation of divorce elevates suspicion.

 

41 minutes ago, Jasskatten said:

before volunteering this information to USCIS.

So IOW hide it for as long as possible. What possible benefit is there to doing so?

Edited June 23, 2023 by Mike E

[Jasskatten 23]

1 minute ago, Mike E said:

 

Reading between the lines, hiding the initiation of divorce elevates suspicion.

 

So IOW hide it for as long as possible. What possible benefit is there to doing so?

Yes, it elevates suspicion. So would a lot of things do that you are not required to inform USCIS of. 

 

The benefits would be to get your i-751 approved without any extra hassle. Volunteering information that is not asked for or required by USCIS could cause unnecessary complications instead of clearing things up. Which is why i would recommend listening to a lawyer. If unsure, get a second opinion.

 

Note that regarding filing i-751 USCIS says you "must" file within the 90 day window. After moving, USCIS you "must" file within 10 days. Regarding divorce proceedings, there is nothing like that. I don't think that is by accident, an applicant is not required to read between the lines to figure out what is required of them.

 

 

[Mike E 11,739]

1 minute ago, Jasskatten said:

The benefits would be to get your i-751 approved

It is already approved.

 

2 minutes ago, Jasskatten said:

an applicant is not required to read between the lines to figure out what is required of them.

And DHS is not required to approve an N-400 or not open removal proceedings.

[Jasskatten 23]

7 minutes ago, Mike E said:

It is already approved.

 

And DHS is not required to approve an N-400 or not open removal proceedings.

Exactly, it is already approved, lawyer says everything is fine. Why risk confusing USCIS by volunteering information not asked for?

 

What would the basis for opening removal proceedings be? The OP has not misrepresented himself or broken any laws or rules? USCIS found based on the case submitted that the marriage was bona fide and that there was no need to ask for further evidence. Why complicate things? If unsure, get a second opinion from a second lawyer.

[Boiler 45,470]

2 minutes ago, Jasskatten said:

Exactly, it is already approved, lawyer says everything is fine. Why risk confusing USCIS by volunteering information not asked for?

 

What would the basis for opening removal proceedings be? The OP has not misrepresented himself or broken any laws or rules? USCIS found based on the case submitted that the marriage was bona fide and that there was no need to ask for further evidence. Why complicate things? If unsure, get a second opinion from a second lawyer.

This reminds me of the old Irish joke about how to get to Ballymurphy, well I would not start from here.

 

Removing conditions on the basis of a valid marital situation and getting divorced at the same time are not compatible.

[Mike E 11,739]

7 minutes ago, Jasskatten said:

Why risk confusing USCIS by volunteering information not asked for?

To get ahead of a future finding of misrepresentation.

 

If you think telling USCIS now is bad, then surely telling USCIS during N-400 or I-130, or telling CBP at a port of entry, or having one’s beneficiary tell DoS during DS-260 is worse. Lies get worse the older they get. 
 

But if you think telling DHS or DoS years from now is ok, then surely there is no harm in telling USCIS now.

 

It seems you lack courage of conviction. I mean having watched OP pull the wool over DHS’s eyes you should be cheering OP to flaunt it, right?

Edited June 23, 2023 by Mike E

[Jasskatten 23]

Just now, Mike E said:

To get ahead of a future finding of misrepresentation.

 

If you think telling USCIS now is bad, then surely telling USCIS during N-400 or I-130, or telling CBP at a port of entry, or having one’s beneficiary tell DoS during DS-260 is worse. Lies get worse the older they get. 
 

But if you think telling DHS or DoS years from now is ok, then surely there is no harm in telling USCIS now.

 

It seems you lack courage of conviction.

I would never encourage anyone to lie to USCIS. Very bad idea. Based on this thread though, the OP has not lied or misrepresented himself.

 

If DHS or DoS years from now ask, i would tell the truth (just as his lawyer adviced) The divorce was not finalized when the green card was approved. Since we were still married, there was no need to inform USCIS. Unfortunately, we were not able to reconcile, and after getting the green card, the divorce was finalized.

 

The difference between volunteering information, and asking truthfully when asked, is

* Comparing a hypothetical situation with a certain situation.

* Risking confusing USCIS by offering information not asked for.

* In this hypothetical future, he would actually be divorced. At the moment, he is actually married. What if they reconcile?

 

If unsure, get a second opinion from a second lawyer. 

[Boiler 45,470]

What is done is done.

 

Assuming you do not waive what happened in their face, ie filing for a N400, I doubt there will be an issue.

[Mike E 11,739]

10 minutes ago, Jasskatten said:

Risking confusing USCIS by offering information not asked for.

If USCIS is confused, so what?

 

Where is the courage of conviction?

 

[Jasskatten 23]

1 minute ago, Mike E said:

If USCIS is confused, so what?

 

Where is the courage of conviction?

 

If USCIS is confused , they think that he misrepresented himself, withdraw the approval, issue an RFE for a divorce decree expected within 90 days, OP would not have that, case would get denied. OP would then have to refile i-751, with the quirk that being in divorce proceedings is not a reason for a waiver, a second rfe for a divorce decree would be issued, OP might not have the divorce decree in time if the divorce stretches out for any reason (someone mentioned a one year coolin off period in Nort Carolina?), OP gets denied a second time. OP has apply a third time, rinse and repeat. Every time from now on until he becomes a citizen, whenever OP has contact with DoS, DHS, CBP, or  USCIS, he needs to explain this mess, increasing the risk for misunderstandings.

 

Purely hypothetical, but why risk anything unnecessarily? 

 

Better to just follow USCIS's and lawyer's instructions in my opinion. But as I said in each post so far, if in doubt, get a second opinion from a second lawyer.

 

Not sure what courage of conviction you are looking for? My only convictions regarding the immigration process is:

 

* Never lie

* If USCIS asks you "Do you know what time it is?", the correct answer is "Yes!"

[Boiler 45,470]

I would leave this sleeping dog alone but fully appreciate that there are many much braver than I am.

[Mike E 11,739]

16 minutes ago, Jasskatten said:

If USCIS is confused , they think that he misrepresented himself, withdraw the approval

So?

 

16 minutes ago, Jasskatten said:

issue an RFE for a divorce decree expected within 90 days, OP would not have that

No, it is 87 days and OP will have the decree by then.

 

16 minutes ago, Jasskatten said:

Every time from now on until he becomes a citizen, whenever OP has contact with DoS, DHS, CBP, or  USCIS, he needs to explain this mess, increasing the risk for misunderstandings.

And OP will not have to explain it if OP takes your advice?

 

16 minutes ago, Jasskatten said:

Better to just follow USCIS's and lawyer's instructions in my opinion

Can you cite the USCIS instructions to hide an in progress divorce filed after a joint I-751?

 

16 minutes ago, Jasskatten said:

My only convictions regarding the immigration process is:

 

* Never lie

This is “lie by omission”

 

44 minutes ago, Boiler said:

Assuming you do not waive what happened in their face, ie filing for a N400, I doubt there will be an issue.

So

 

* stay in this territory of the U.S. where only a 1/3 of everyone lives:

 

 

* Move to a state that grants lifetime standard state ID

 

* never file I-90 

 

* never travel domestically once REAL ID is enforced

 

* never travel internationally

 

* never collect social security

 

etc

 

What a life.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 23, 2023 by Mike E

[Boiler 45,470]

There is no need to Naturalise, many people I know do not.

 

Not sure how the rest of it comes into play with this situation, not the first person I have come across who wants to Naturalise but should seriously consider if it is worthwhile.