What Are Your Experiences With Language Issues

[KGSodie 0]

I've been poking around on this forum looking for posts related to personal experiences couples have had when neither is fluent in the native language of the other. I have found some posts, but decided to start a new thread anyway. I'm particularly interested in experiences anyone would like to share about after their fiance/fiancee arrives.

First, my own (limited) experiences so far:

When Natasha and I met online, I spoke no Russian at all and she spoke English at a very basic level. Understanding spoken English is a challenge for her though. She used a program called Magic Goody to translate my English chat text to Russian, and her Russian chat text to English. We talked several times this way before I knew she was using a software translator. Being a very quick typist, I quickly purchased and installed PROMT and we began chatting exclusively in Russian simply because there was less 'lag' in the conversation. This had a very pleasant side-effect I'll discuss later.

Software translation can be very frustrating initially, and Natasha and I had our fair share of misunderstandings, but we have learned how to choose our words and phrasing to maximize the likelihood that the intended meaning of our words survives translation by the software. It's not perfect, by any means, but it is a reasonable substitute (for now) to being able to speak directly in the language of the other. Web cameras are also a great help because so much can be communicated through expressions and body language to accentuate the words we type.

Before I traveled to Russia to meet Natasha in person, I began studying Russian using Pimsleur Conversational Russian audio CDs. I found this very frustrating, although I did learn some basics - yes, no, hello, goodbye, please, thank you, understand, I, you, not, etc. I apparently don't learn well using purely audio based methods. In total, I studied this way for about 4 weeks, maybe 4 times a week, then I went to Russia.

In Russia, Natasha taught me more words (man, woman, boy, girl, market, bus, etc) but we relied upon her basic English to communicate. It was very frustrating sometimes, and if our day was going to be complex, we would use the software translator before we headed out to discuss our plans in detail for the day. My Russian responses were usually limited to yes, no, I understand, I don't understand, but we managed to spend a truly glorious 3 and a half weeks together there. Much loved by her non-English speaking family was the game "Let's have the American try and pronounce Russian words". We played this game during many meal times spent around the dining table. Someone would point to something in the kitchen and then say the Russian word for it, which I would then attempt to mimic. It was hilarious!

Since I have returned, I have decided to go as full-tilt into Russian language study as I can manage. I purchased Level 1 and 2 from Rosetta Stone and I study 3 or 4 times each week, with a goal of completing one lesson per week. Often, I will study while chatting with Natasha, and we will turn on the microphones so that she can listen and correct my pronunciation. Anyone interested (in Rosetta Stone particularly) can check my progress on my website (it's linked from my profile here on VJ). I post blog reports after each lesson and I have my grades posted in a separate section as well. I study from the 'home school' edition of the software, where the program directs my study and my progress is based on my performance, and each lesson must be passed three times where different things are emphasized (Rosetta Stone calls this the comprehensive mode). Chatting in Russian using a software translator made me at least familiar with the Cyrillic alphabet and taught me to recognize a lot of words by sight. Now that I'm learning to speak Russian with Rosetta Stone, I am finding it relatively 'easy' to pick up how the letters are pronounced. This is the pleasant side-effect of chatting in written Russian I alluded to earlier.

Learning Russian is important to me, because Natasha's Russian heritage is important to me. Eventually I wish to be able to speak directly with her parents and her family in their native language. When I was there and I asked her parents for permission to marry Natasha, we relied upon the software translator as we sat at the computer, with Natasha occasionally adding something to the conversation if she thought something was unclear. This worked at the time, but it is not what I desire with regard to speaking with her family.

I know I have, most probably, 5 to 7 months before Natasha receives her visa and I travel to Russia to bring her and her daughter to this country. I will use that time to continue my studies of the Russian language and I hope to have completed the bulk of the Level 1 material by that time. I know this will put me at no more than the advanced beginner level, and even after Natasha arrives it is my plan to continue my studies and finish Level 1 and 2 during the first 18 months or so of our being together. This will, I hope, take me to an intermediate level of Russian, and Natasha will take me to whatever level of fluency I am capable of.

Natasha may take English classes (something like ESL) and she may not - she has taken classes before and she believes that simply being here and immersed in English (and with me as her guide) will be all she requires. We will play this by ear and see how it goes. She also believes that her daughter will best learn by just being here, but I'm not as convinced of this. I know that Vika (Natasha's daughter) studies some English at her school now, so perhaps Natasha will be proven right. She usually is!

Here are two comments from other posts on this forum, which I liked and which I think are relevant:

From Jewel12:

"I have a hard time understanding how you can fall in love with a person if you don't speak a common language fluently, but there's lots of things I don't understand, so I better shut up smile.gif"

From bready99:

"This question is pretty simple to answer for me. There is more to loving each other than speaking a common language fluently. If it was that simple (just language) then there would not be so many divorces or break-ups in this country (U.S.A.) or even in the world.

To answer the question for us, it is the way we look at each other, the way we treat each other, the way she laughs or smiles at the things I do. It is how we are able to hug each other after being so frustrated with some of the things we do or say or can't say to each other. We communicate in many ways with each other and, for the most part, it is all enjoyable. We do talk to each other and we do help each other in many ways. I think being in love is all about how each person "completes" the other person. It's not just about talking and it's not all about sex, it's all about how well two people are able to relate to each other and feel good in that relationship. Love is all about feelings and emotions and how two people are able to share and communicate those feelings. Speaking a similar language is just one way of communicating those emotions. I think those of you who have difficulty understanding how two people can be in love without speaking a common language fluently will also have difficulty in understanding those people who can fall in love at first sight, but that's another topic."

Bready99, thank you. You said that so much better than I could ever hope to. Love is very much a (and I hate to use a much-overused term) synergistic thing. When everything is right, it is much more something you feel than something you say. Words are very poor instruments for communicating what we have inside of us, in our hearts. Communication is important, and those of us who have chosen a mate where a language is not shared have a tough road ahead, there is no denying that. But if our hearts are in the right place, if we are truly committed and dedicated to one another, then language shouldn't be an issue. Language is a learned thing, not an innate thing like love is (for me, anyway).

Ok, I guess I'll wrap up my first real post here on VJ. I've lurked for some time now and added a short reply here or there, but I've never delved into anything so verbosely before. Agree with me, disagree with me, even flame me, but if you have something relevant on this subject to share I'd very much welcome your words.

Kevin

[russ 1]

Russian grammar is of critical importance to express anything beyond basic constructions. As Rosetta Stone does not teach grammar, it will greatly limit what you will be able to understand.

How are you studying the grammar? I highly recommend the Princeton course - http://www.princeton.edu/russian/

Try to use Russian handwritting if you can to work out the exercises.

Declensions in Russian are not intuitvie to English speakers, you really do need to learn them though. Far more important than vocabulary, which you will pick up anyway.

Taking university courses helped me more than anything else.

[Mr and Mrs Bird 0]

Hi Kevin

I am from Denmark and married to a USC.

And amazed about your interest of learning you fiancee's language to be able to communicate with her and famely.

When we waited for my K-1 visa to be approved I started to learn my husband a little bit danish.

Then I suddenly realized that maybe it was better that I first of all would study more English in order to emprove my skills before moving to USA and start my new life. So I took a course in Denmark.

It seems to me to be more importent that I have a good way to communicate with my husband and the americans and also to be more secure when the time comes to apply for a job.

First I thought that my tourist English was enough for me over here. But I can tell it is not.

So I started on another English course on our local library here in USA to learn more the american terms and how to behavior my English language when being with american people.

It is very importent that your fiancee is not feeling isolated and only dependent on you.

Even more importent it is good for her child to emprove the English too.

My son at 16 years old had less English in school in Denmark and now he is the person who have to graduate someday and are forced to study very much to even understand and answer the questions in his new school.

After we arrived here in USA we are now more relaxed to learn my husband our native language.

And actually easier for him now because he can read our bodylanguage sometimes and able to understand us anyway.

This is ofcause only my opinion, but I couldn't resist to tell you about our story about the language barrier there for sure will be not only now for you and her, but in the coming future too.

Don't wait or delay anything in hope about that it will be easier when she just arrive in your country.

Very much good luck to you with everything.

Anette

[KGSodie 0]

Russian grammar is of critical importance to express anything beyond basic constructions. As Rosetta Stone does not teach grammar, it will greatly limit what you will be able to understand.

How are you studying the grammar? I highly recommend the Princeton course - http://www.princeton.edu/russian/

Try to use Russian handwritting if you can to work out the exercises.

Declensions in Russian are not intuitvie to English speakers, you really do need to learn them though. Far more important than vocabulary, which you will pick up anyway.

Taking university courses helped me more than anything else.

To be honest, I haven't considered what would be best to study after I complete the Rosetta Stone courses, other than to learn from Natasha through daily conversation, but I had thought about university classes. Omaha isn't that big of a town but the local college does have some classes in Russian. As far as grammar goes, I have no idea. Rosetta Stone touts that you will learn grammar 'naturally, as a child does' but I too am a little skeptical. Of course, my grammar in ENGLISH isn't all that great either!

For handwriting, I have discovered that it is very helpful if I write out the words as I learn and practice them with Rosetta Stone, even though I have no idea what the 'proper' way of forming the individual letters is.

As for declensions - I'll have to look this word up! I'm not even certain what you mean, but I will find out.

Thank you VERY MUCH for you ideas and for you comments, I sincerely appreciate them.

[KGSodie 0]

Hi Kevin

I am from Denmark and married to a USC.

And amazed about your interest of learning you fiancee's language to be able to communicate with her and famely.

When we waited for my K-1 visa to be approved I started to learn my husband a little bit danish.

Then I suddenly realized that maybe it was better that I first of all would study more English in order to emprove my skills before moving to USA and start my new life. So I took a course in Denmark.

It seems to me to be more importent that I have a good way to communicate with my husband and the americans and also to be more secure when the time comes to apply for a job.

First I thought that my tourist English was enough for me over here. But I can tell it is not.

So I started on another English course on our local library here in USA to learn more the american terms and how to behavior my English language when being with american people.

It is very importent that your fiancee is not feeling isolated and only dependent on you.

Even more importent it is good for her child to emprove the English too.

My son at 16 years old had less English in school in Denmark and now he is the person who have to graduate someday and are forced to study very much to even understand and answer the questions in his new school.

After we arrived here in USA we are now more relaxed to learn my husband our native language.

And actually easier for him now because he can read our bodylanguage sometimes and able to understand us anyway.

This is ofcause only my opinion, but I couldn't resist to tell you about our story about the language barrier there for sure will be not only now for you and her, but in the coming future too.

Don't wait or delay anything in hope about that it will be easier when she just arrive in your country.

Very much good luck to you with everything.

Anette

I completely agree with you - although I know she and Vika will spending a lot of their time with me after they first arrive, the last thing I want is for them to perceive that they are completely and totally reliant upon only me. Natasha is a pretty strong-willed woman, though, and is very active in the Russian bride web sites and forums, and is seeking out Russian women in the area that she can connect with.

Like you, Natasha wishes to learn English quickly because she desires strongly to work and be gainfully employed. If she's not learning quickly enough to suit her own goals, I'm sure she'll be very receptive to taking English language classes.

Thank you for your thoughts and experiences, and if anything else occurs to you, please don't hesitate to share it here. Knowledge is power, and I can use all that I can get.

[slim 1,530]

Welcome, Kevin, and thanks for jumping on the forum and getting straight to business. That's awesome!

I hate to burst your bubble, but you're trying WAY TOO HARD to learn Russian. The fact of the matter is, you're trying to be fluent in her language so you can have a better relationship and understanding and all the selfless things people do for someone they love. That's great! But, reality is, once she's here, you're going to use Russian about a fifth of the time, and then less and less after that. The only time you're going to use it is when you talk about Russian stuff, practice Russian together, talk about her family or try to really understand something that you guys need to work out. The rest of the time, she's going to be forced to use English, and that's only going to get more and more frequent the longer she stays here. So, learn what you can, but you're never really going to "need" Russian the way you're setting yourself up to use it.

Now, I can tell from your post you're a pretty literary guy and have a pretty good grasp (freaking excellent, actually) on the English language. Remember, you're learning Russian to communicate, not to write a thesis. (I'm sure that's where you'd like to be some day, but for the time being, you're trying to communicate... it's a much simpler process) Basic communication isn't done with grammatical rules and conjugations, it's done with phrases and words. You're transmitting your idea and trying to get someone to understand it. They're, in turn, transmitting their idea back and trying to get you to understand it. That's it.

Let's say you have seven months until your fiancee's interview and subsequent arrival. If you try to "learn" Russian in the hopes of being fluent and reading Tolstoy in the native language, when she arrives, you'll be able to communicate in elaborate sentences and understand complex story lines. But, when she asks you "shto ti dumaish?" You're going to be lost because she's asking you in a familiar way, the way a wife would talk to a husband, not the way a writer is going to present his story to an audience, or a professor to a class.

I recommend learning all the basics, and just building from there. If you try to approach learning as an adult, you're going "backwards". Remember, you're like a 3rd grader. Act like a 3rd grader.

I'm super biased here because I learned Russian (the basic stuff that I know, anyway) by talking with Russian women, memorizing grammer, then honing my skills with Pimsleur. So I'm of that (the Pimsleur) camp. I can tell you though, when you're in a situation with native speakers and native speakers only, quoting poetry and using the finest of words is no substitute for knowing what "skolka eto stoit?" means.

My wife knew a fair bit of English upon her arrival and has picked up more LIGHTNING fast. To truly understand her though, I need to know some Russian. Usually, those are the curse words and the simple questions, simple answers, and the true feelings and expressions people share when they're in close quarters and intimate with each other. You don't need to know things like the proper conjugation of the verb "to throw" but you do need to know things like "again, after, when, wait, I'm hungry, wow!, I miss you, shower, call, cold," and how to say all of those things to her, and (not completely necessary) how they change when you're talking about someone else, be it her father or her daughter. You'll also be amazed at the disparity between the swiftness of her daughter's communication developments and your own. (And probably hers as well.)

Keep that in mind when you're learning conjugations and grammatical rules.

COMMUNICATE!!! Think in the target language. Know what you want to say and get your idea across. Don't sweat if you're saying it or pronouncing it correctly, just make yourself understood.

GOOD LUCK!!!!

[slim 1,530]

Ah... I almost forgot, you really need to know words like "kapusta" and "apilsinii" maybe even some "yaitsa" and various other food items. You'll be using those almost daily. You definitely want to be able for her to get what she wants to eat. (The first step in calming a grumpy woman!)

Think about things you use in your daily life and try to learn those words. I even have post-its with Russian/English translations all over my house. I bought a children's "first words" book off Amazon, and it's awesome for household and daily things.

I have countless Russian books and tapes, CDs, programs, etc. But, the only ones I really use are:

Lonely Planet Russian Phrase Book (By far the best printed resource I've found for Russian language and culture. If I could have only one thing for Russian language, it would be this book!) http://www.amazon.com/Russian-Lonely-Phras...6720&sr=8-1

Oxford (or similar) Russian Dictionary (You need to have a small Russian/English dictionary both of you can use for "point and grunt") http://www.amazon.com/Oxford-New-Russian-D...6880&sr=1-4

The First Thousand Words in Russian (Excellent for learning words in the home and on the street.) http://www.amazon.com/First-Thousand-Words...6938&sr=1-3

Russian A Language Map (You probably know all the words on here already, but it's a handy little tool.) http://www.amazon.com/Russian-Language-Map...049&sr=1-19

And you already have the Pimsleur set. Even if you don't like the pimsleur method, I highly encourage it because it will help your "thinking" in the target language more than you realize. You may not think you're "getting it" but it encourages your brain to "think" in Russian instead of thinking in English and then translating it over.

Another resource you may want to check out is The Quick and Dirty Guide to Learning Languages Fast. This book is written by an ex-special forces guy who is certified in seven languages. His approach is one that stresses understanding rather than fluency and will significantly improve your Russian skills in the least amount of time possible. Worth the money! http://www.amazon.com/Quick-Dirty-Guide-Le...7406&sr=1-1

One thing you may or may not be doing already is listening to Russian music and watching Russian movies/TV. Try something like YouTube and watch a few Via Gra videos. If they can't help (and motivate) you.... nothing can!

[CityCat 0]

One thing you may or may not be doing already is listening to Russian music and watching Russian movies/TV. Try something like YouTube and watch a few Via Gra videos. If they can't help (and motivate) you.... nothing can!

To the point, Slim! Motivation is the key concept of learning a language! And those girls can wake up a dead man!

To the topic starter:

you are up to a challenge a life long. Don't try to jump higher than you can - you will be able to understand each other on every day basis soon but for deeper conversations use the language of love! I am not being skeptical about your skills I am being pragmatic about the task - Russian has too much soul, and it takes much longer to grasp the soul than to learn grammar or drill words! Good luck with conversational, though!

[russ 1]

I recommend learning all the basics, and just building from there. If you try to approach learning as an adult, you're going "backwards". Remember, you're like a 3rd grader. Act like a 3rd grader.

You aren't like a third grader though. A third grader can understand far more complicated concepts than you can at this point. Sorry, just being honest. Learning a language as an adult is not the same as doing it as a child. A third grader learned these grammar rules slowly. You can open a book and learn them in a few weeks.

Declensions. This is a key point in Russian. The ending of a noun will change depending on what it is in a sentence. This is why you say "Мне нравится книга" or "Я люблю книгу." Мне and Я are the same word. Книга and книгу are also the same word. "Книга нравится мне" - does NOT mean the book likes me. These details are critically important to even basic understanding of Russian speech.

Russian adjectives and nouns pretty much always agree in case, number and gender. Gender is easy, but case is more confusing. It also can change the meaning of a sentence entirely.

Good luck - it isn't that hard to learn Russian. Stick with it, and add one of the princeton lessons I posted above to your daily routine. You will be surprised how much more you understand.

[KGSodie 0]

Once again I wish to thank everyone for their thoughts. I suspect the 'ideal' approach depends largely on the individual and is an amalgam of different portions of everything written here, by everyone!

Thanks for the definition of 'declension' - you saved me having to look it up. I'm not very far into Rosetta Stone yet, but have already noticed this about the Russian language. Rosetta Stone can be frustrating in that nothing is explained - you just look at pictures and written text and listen to spoken Russian and start figuring things out through trial and error, but the roots of the various forms of words have been relatively easy to spot so far.

My current nemesis is the word for 'bicycle'. My pronunciation of this word reminds me very much of Rob Schneider's attempted pronunciation of 'hippopotamus' in the movie 'Big Daddy'.

I honestly don't think I'm trying too hard to learn Russian though. It is important to me and when something is important to me I go after it with everything I have. That's how I found and won Natasha, after all. I may learn Russian from a 'fancy book larnin' perspective but at least I'll be able to communicate. Colloquialisms and vernacular will come later through normal conversation.

[Mr and Mrs Bird 0]

Once again I wish to thank everyone for their thoughts. I suspect the 'ideal' approach depends largely on the individual and is an amalgam of different portions of everything written here, by everyone!

Thanks for the definition of 'declension' - you saved me having to look it up. I'm not very far into Rosetta Stone yet, but have already noticed this about the Russian language. Rosetta Stone can be frustrating in that nothing is explained - you just look at pictures and written text and listen to spoken Russian and start figuring things out through trial and error, but the roots of the various forms of words have been relatively easy to spot so far.

My current nemesis is the word for 'bicycle'. My pronunciation of this word reminds me very much of Rob Schneider's attempted pronunciation of 'hippopotamus' in the movie 'Big Daddy'.

I honestly don't think I'm trying too hard to learn Russian though. It is important to me and when something is important to me I go after it with everything I have. That's how I found and won Natasha, after all. I may learn Russian from a 'fancy book larnin' perspective but at least I'll be able to communicate. Colloquialisms and vernacular will come later through normal conversation.

And thank you for making a good thread.

I think it's very importent to share these kind of things since we all first know what we should have done sometimes too late.

So very good to share before and after situations

Anette

[russ 1]

My roommate from University moved to Denmark 8 years ago, and managed to learn Danish. As and adult, it isn't impossible. A mix of formal courses and casual converstation is the best approach.

Rosetta Stone is fine for building vocabularly, but I find it less than useless for studying a language

with a wildly different grammar from your native one. If you spoke French and were learning Italian, I could see it being more useful.

Most important thing - don't give up. Learning Russian is not that hard, and the more you learn, the more useful it will be. I wish I had studied more seriously sooner.

And thank you for making a good thread.

I think it's very importent to share these kind of things since we all first know what we should have done sometimes too late.

So very good to share before and after situations

Anette

[Mr and Mrs Bird 0]

My roommate from University moved to Denmark 8 years ago, and managed to learn Danish. As and adult, it isn't impossible. A mix of formal courses and casual converstation is the best approach.

Rosetta Stone is fine for building vocabularly, but I find it less than useless for studying a language

with a wildly different grammar from your native one. If you spoke French and were learning Italian, I could see it being more useful.

Most important thing - don't give up. Learning Russian is not that hard, and the more you learn, the more useful it will be. I wish I had studied more seriously sooner.

And thank you for making a good thread.

I think it's very importent to share these kind of things since we all first know what we should have done sometimes too late.

So very good to share before and after situations

Anette

uhh when I see somebody is typing about my country I am all excited. It's not so often here.

Gramma in danish is very close to English actually. I know it because I can speak german too and know this is a kind of difficult.

So after 8 years it was possible to speak danish? Yes if you really want to learn something everything is possible

[russ 1]

I loved Copenhagen - I've been there a few times. My friend began studying Danish as soon as he got there, within 3 years he was reasonably fluent.

It would be very nice to be walking around Tivoli this time of year...

uhh when I see somebody is typing about my country I am all excited. It's not so often here.

Gramma in danish is very close to English actually. I know it because I can speak german too and know this is a kind of difficult.

So after 8 years it was possible to speak danish? Yes if you really want to learn something everything is possible

[Mr and Mrs Bird 0]

I loved Copenhagen - I've been there a few times. My friend began studying Danish as soon as he got there, within 3 years he was reasonably fluent.

It would be very nice to be walking around Tivoli this time of year...

uhh when I see somebody is typing about my country I am all excited. It's not so often here.

Gramma in danish is very close to English actually. I know it because I can speak german too and know this is a kind of difficult.

So after 8 years it was possible to speak danish? Yes if you really want to learn something everything is possible

OMG now I am getting high hair on my arms LOL

Yes Tivoli is very beatyful in summertime.

Actually I am not from Copenhagen, but from Jutland as we call the country side. I am 3 hours away from Copenhagen