Officer took passport only to refuse under 221(g) later

[BandQ 12]

So basicly as the title had mentioned. I attended the interview with my fiancée where the officer both asked us questions. He was extremely friendly and asked 3 questions to us each. The officer congratulated us both and kept her passport informing us that she will receive her passport back in the mail with the visa. Here is the kicker, they did not ask to see any photos or any evidence of our relationship. Instead they told us to go home.

 

Fast forward to today, she received her passport, but with a blue slip instead. The slip basically asked for the information that we brought with us at the interview but the front counter refused to take, as well as it is NOW asking for the evidence of relationship.

 

I am absolutely livid right now as this is our 2nd attempt. With the difference being I was able to attend the interview this time around and front loaded the visa. Is there a way I can contact an officer directly to get this addressed immediately.

[BandQ 12]

To add to this, the actually accepted signed documents stating we were never married before, and yet, here they are asking for ex-spouses. 

Edited April 11, 2023 by BandQ

[biscoito1r 73]

Are you a Viet Kieu ? I've heard that they usually give Viet Kieu a hard time on K1 due to a lot of fraud that took place like uncles marrying their nieces. I see that they're asking you for a family relationship form. What is the status on your https://ceac.state.gov/ceacstattracker/status.aspx ?

I think the only thing you can really do right now is gather all of the documents and make an appointment to have them dropped off.

Did you get interviewed by an young officer with a tattoo on his right arm ? He was the guy that interviewed us and he was indeed very friendly.

[BandQ 12]

1 hour ago, biscoito1r said:

Are you a Viet Kieu ? I've heard that they usually give Viet Kieu a hard time on K1 due to a lot of fraud that took place like uncles marrying their nieces. I see that they're asking you for a family relationship form. What is the status on your https://ceac.state.gov/ceacstattracker/status.aspx ?

I think the only thing you can really do right now is gather all of the documents and make an appointment to have them dropped off.

Did you get interviewed by an young officer with a tattoo on his right arm ? He was the guy that interviewed us and he was indeed very friendly.

I do recall that it was the same officer. I am actually half white half mexican, native born American citizen. When the officer congratulated us he saw our excitement and we overheard him remarked to the translator next to him how cute we were as we were walking away. There was no indication that he was suspicious of anything. It feels like there is some internal problems at the embassy as they took her passport, then sent it back to her refused. 

[carmel34 3,638]

The blue letter is very clear--gather and submit all of the documents requested, follow the instructions exactly to the letter.  There seems to be something in the case file that a supervisor was concerned about.  The sooner the documents they want are submitted, the less time you will have to wait for a final decision.  Be very thorough and complete, don't leave anything out, go above and beyond with evidence.  Vietnam is one of the countries with a history of immigration fraud, I recall one big case in Houston a while back, here's a link.  Hopefully you can overcome their concerns and eventually get approved.  Good luck!

 

 https://www.cbsnews.com/texas/news/mastermind-behind-houston-based-marriage-fraud-scheme-sentenced-to-10-years/#:~:text=Local News-,Mastermind behind Houston-based marriage fraud scheme,to 10 years in prison&text=HOUSTON (CBSDFW.COM) —,dollars in fines on Thursday.

[jan22 3,056]

The way to get to an officer to resolve things is to submit what has been requested.  If you had all of it at the interview, it should fairly quick to organize and get the appointment to submit it.  One question -- what do you mean by "this is our 2nd attempt"? Second petition and visa interview? 

Edited April 11, 2023 by jan22

[SalishSea 17,874]

9 hours ago, BandQ said:

So basicly as the title had mentioned. I attended the interview with my fiancée where the officer both asked us questions. He was extremely friendly and asked 3 questions to us each. The officer congratulated us both and kept her passport informing us that she will receive her passport back in the mail with the visa. Here is the kicker, they did not ask to see any photos or any evidence of our relationship. Instead they told us to go home.

 

Fast forward to today, she received her passport, but with a blue slip instead. The slip basically asked for the information that we brought with us at the interview but the front counter refused to take, as well as it is NOW asking for the evidence of relationship.

 

I am absolutely livid right now as this is our 2nd attempt. With the difference being I was able to attend the interview this time around and front loaded the visa. Is there a way I can contact an officer directly to get this addressed immediately.

Viet Nam is notoriously tough on K-1s, due to widespread fraud.  Is there a reason why you do not marry and pursue a spousal visa instead?

[Liam2021 583]

Did you petition for someone before? 

[BandQ 12]

On 4/11/2023 at 4:31 AM, carmel34 said:

The blue letter is very clear--gather and submit all of the documents requested, follow the instructions exactly to the letter.  There seems to be something in the case file that a supervisor was concerned about.  The sooner the documents they want are submitted, the less time you will have to wait for a final decision.  Be very thorough and complete, don't leave anything out, go above and beyond with evidence.  Vietnam is one of the countries with a history of immigration fraud, I recall one big case in Houston a while back, here's a link.  Hopefully you can overcome their concerns and eventually get approved.  Good luck!

 

 https://www.cbsnews.com/texas/news/mastermind-behind-houston-based-marriage-fraud-scheme-sentenced-to-10-years/#:~:text=Local News-,Mastermind behind Houston-based marriage fraud scheme,to 10 years in prison&text=HOUSTON (CBSDFW.COM) —,dollars in fines on Thursday.

I think I need to clearify a couple of things. This is a generic slip that is sent out by the embassy when they don't aprove it during the interview. The information they request is not specific to our case. That's why there are requests for ex-spouce information when we clearly mentioned that non of us have been married before, or why it requests family tree Info despite the officer seeing me in person as completely different nationally and race. 

 

What's particularly odd is that after congratulating us on the aproval, the officer told us to our face that they will be sending her passport back with the visa in it, only for this decision to be overturned with a generic blue slip.

 

If a supervisor had found something to be concerned about, why send a generic slip? What we are looking for is to get some clues on to what is it specifically that is concerning in our case. We feel that by just blindly sending the requested information that it wouldn't tackle the root cause.

Edited April 12, 2023 by BandQ

[jan22 3,056]

3 hours ago, BandQ said:

I think I need to clearify a couple of things. This is a generic slip that is sent out by the embassy when they don't aprove it during the interview. The information they request is not specific to our case. That's why there are requests for ex-spouce information when we clearly mentioned that non of us have been married before, or why it requests family tree Info despite the officer seeing me in person as completely different nationally and race. 

 

What's particularly odd is that after congratulating us on the aproval, the officer told us to our face that they will be sending her passport back with the visa in it, only for this decision to be overturned with a generic blue slip.

 

If a supervisor had found something to be concerned about, why send a generic slip? What we are looking for is to get some clues on to what is it specifically that is concerning in our case. We feel that by just blindly sending the requested information that it wouldn't tackle the root cause.

I think we understood what you were asking the fIrst time.  However, there is no way anyone on the forum can guess what might have caused the concerns with the limited information you provided here.  A couple of things for your consideration:

• Every application goes through a stage of final administrative processing after the interviewing officer says it's approved.  Part of that is a review by a senior officer.  This can result in a request for additional information or take some time for final security checks.  It is normal and not personal to your case --although I know it seems very personal right now.
• You haven't supplied information here that would help pinpoint any additional concerns in your case.  You said this was your "2nd attempt", which implies something went wrong on the first attempt -- did this attempt "cure" (i.e., correct or resolve) whatever that was?
• You describe the letter as a "generic" one that they give to anyone not approved.  But, it specifically states that the officer did not believe you had a bona fide relationship and that you needed to provide information showing the relationship was for more than an immigration benefit.  The rest of the letter is generic -- and likely has to be since they do not know what types of information you might have concerning your relationshIp, so they cannot be more specific.
• Again, you have more than a clue on what is concerning them about your case. The Ietter starts with a statement on what is of particular concern --- they don't believe your relationship is real; rather, they believe it is for immigration purposes only.  We don't know why that is, but if you think about everything you submitted and what was asked and answered, maybe you or your fiancee do (or can figure it out).  Maybe something from the 1st attempt?  Maybe something confusing in your fiancee's family paperwork?  Maybe some thing in the timeline of your relationship?  
• The root of the problem has been identified -- whether you agree that is a valid concern or not -- so you do not have to "blindly" send documents.  You can make sure what you send adds to the picture of your plan for a loving, committed, lifelong relationship.
• Until you submit something to address what has been requested, your case will not move forward.

Edited April 12, 2023 by jan22

[WandY 430]

Send exactly what they ask for. I have always been against "front-loading" for any purpose. The whole notion of it may have caused you problems. Give them what they ask for - nothing more. I've dealt with the HCMC consulate several times - it can be difficult. The fact that they took her passport is probably a sign that you are close to approval. Give them what they want (quickly) and nothing more. Unless there's something major, you will probably get the visa.  

[TBoneTX 45,394]

On 4/11/2023 at 2:38 AM, BandQ said:

information that we brought with us at the interview but the front counter refused to take

Why was this?

[BandQ 12]

On 4/12/2023 at 8:06 AM, jan22 said:

I think we understood what you were asking the fIrst time.  However, there is no way anyone on the forum can guess what might have caused the concerns with the limited information you provided here.  A couple of things for your consideration:

• Every application goes through a stage of final administrative processing after the interviewing officer says it's approved.  Part of that is a review by a senior officer.  This can result in a request for additional information or take some time for final security checks.  It is normal and not personal to your case --although I know it seems very personal right now.
• You haven't supplied information here that would help pinpoint any additional concerns in your case.  You said this was your "2nd attempt", which implies something went wrong on the first attempt -- did this attempt "cure" (i.e., correct or resolve) whatever that was?
• You describe the letter as a "generic" one that they give to anyone not approved.  But, it specifically states that the officer did not believe you had a bona fide relationship and that you needed to provide information showing the relationship was for more than an immigration benefit.  The rest of the letter is generic -- and likely has to be since they do not know what types of information you might have concerning your relationshIp, so they cannot be more specific.
• Again, you have more than a clue on what is concerning them about your case. The Ietter starts with a statement on what is of particular concern --- they don't believe your relationship is real; rather, they believe it is for immigration purposes only.  We don't know why that is, but if you think about everything you submitted and what was asked and answered, maybe you or your fiancee do (or can figure it out).  Maybe something from the 1st attempt?  Maybe something confusing in your fiancee's family paperwork?  Maybe some thing in the timeline of your relationship?  
• The root of the problem has been identified -- whether you agree that is a valid concern or not -- so you do not have to "blindly" send documents.  You can make sure what you send adds to the picture of your plan for a loving, committed, lifelong relationship.
• Until you submit something to address what has been requested, your case will not move forward.

• This information is helpful as I was not aware that there was an internal post-review. My Fiancée and I have been following other example of cases specific to the embassy in HCMC. This location has a habit of handing out this same generic blue slip on most cases, then at the follow-up interview either approve or eventually return the petition to NVC/USCIS. When couples of all sorts of history and backgrounds are getting the same slip, it's hard to determine what is officers concern with their case specifically. This is extra difficult for us as we can't really gage what those concerns are with our experience at the interview since the interviewing officer didn't see a problem with us. He asked me the petitioner (P) and my fiancée (B) the following questions: She answered in english
  • (P) Where did you meet your fiancée?
  • (P) When was your first in person meeting?
  • (B) Where does you fiance work?
  • (B) What does he do for work?
  • (B) What year did you last meet? (She fumbled this a bit. She didn't hear the question well and thought we were still on the topic of work. She answered "9 years" as in how many years I worked at my employer and noticed the confusion. I clarified she was talking about how long I worked at my employer and compassionately reworded the question for her. The officer was satisfied with her new answer and my response to her confusion).
  • (B) Who cooks better (Me obviously. The officer saw her playful answer and my reaction and laughed).

The translator gave my fiancée back our original copies and explained to her that she will be getting her visa mailed back with her passport. When the officer congratulated us, I asked for clarification as to why he didn't see our evidence. He stated he was already motioning to approve.  

• Some background information in regards to our first attempt. We applied to for a previous k1 where we got this same blus slip + additional info not asked for this time around, sent the required info where it eventually was sent to USCIS as "The Petitioner and Beneficiary have failed to establish they have a bona fide relationship." This was somewhat understanding as we deduced the issues to be:
  • I didn't attend the interview because of covid (At this embassy its a big hill to climb if the petitioner doesn't join.)
  • Language barriers (not with me as we can communicate with each other in her broken english, but with the officer) 
  • We only met twice at the time of petitioning. We had plans to visit again post petitioning but before NOA2, but those were canceled as covid had happened. 
  • We didn't have the customary ceremonial engagement party. This was going to occur during our canceled trip.
  • The amount of photos. She had about 12 of us together but the officer kept asking her for more photos at the time of the interview. 
  • She answered every question correctly but one. She didn't know exactly how much I made per hour when asked. She knew what my salary was, but didn't know the exact hourly pay. She only answered that she didn't know. I explained after that she is allowed to answer what she does know next time,

This time around we visited more, had our engagement party, made sure to take way more photos of ourselves and family, improved her english, and went over how she is allowed to answer questions when she doesn't know specifics. Also a major thing, Covid restrictions ended so yeah.

 

• I have seen with previous posters that they were told specifics as to why the officer didn't believe in a bona-fide relationship in thier OF-194. example: Didn't have and engagement party. Short courting. Only met once. ect. I was extremely confused as to why there was no specifics both interviews and are getting a repeat of what occured last time despite doing significantly better and fixing our assumed red flags. 
• In this case the root of the problem has not been identified. Getting the old generic letter despite addressing all of the previous issues means there is a perceived flaw from the officer that we have no clue what it could be. Rather than being adults and being transparent with what could be an easily fixable concern, they are playing games. I'm not going to let them do whatever they want to us in this game so thats why im looking to see if there is anyway to get more clarification before sending in the required documents.
• I am aware this will not move forward until then, I'm just looking for insites.

Edited April 16, 2023 by BandQ
clearification

[BandQ 12]

On 4/12/2023 at 2:12 PM, TBoneTX said:

Why was this?

Seriously, I have no idea. The information we tried to add was the information that was on the blue slip from our first k1 application, the front desk kept giving it back to us. After a few times, I sternly asked her to take it and she said she didn't need it. I didn't press further as we front loaded this on our 129f.

[BandQ 12]

On 4/12/2023 at 2:05 PM, WandY said:

Send exactly what they ask for. I have always been against "front-loading" for any purpose. The whole notion of it may have caused you problems. Give them what they ask for - nothing more. I've dealt with the HCMC consulate several times - it can be difficult. The fact that they took her passport is probably a sign that you are close to approval. Give them what they want (quickly) and nothing more. Unless there's something major, you will probably get the visa.  

Anything that is front loaded on the 129f the officer HAS to review it. There is value in front loading as the officer is allowed to refuse looking at new evidence at the interview, even though ethically, they should be required to do so.  

 

This is what adds to my frustration, they were required to observe these documents on the 129f but are still asking for them.