Unrestricted SSN card at SSA office after GC in hand

[usmsbow 802]

22 hours ago, mam521 said:

TBH, I haven’t updated mine. Mine says with work authorization only, but my GC is work authorization. I will do it after my naturalization ceremony, which seems to be a semi common thing, whether it’s right or wrong, it just is. 
 

The SSA really are the lowest common denominator of government agencies. 

 

Just curious, why would you do it after becoming a citizen? It seems the upside to it would be when you have a (conditional) gc that is expiring. It seems like a waste of time once you're a citizen.

 

 

[OldUser 7,034]

6 minutes ago, usmsbow said:

 

Just curious, why would you do it after becoming a citizen? It seems the upside to it would be when you have a (conditional) gc that is expiring. It seems like a waste of time once you're a citizen.

 

 

SSA needs to be informed about somebody becoming a US citizen. It saves @mam521 a trip by going to SSA after naturalizing. When getting employed as US citizen, @mam521 will be showing unrestricted social security card and driver's license.

 

My point is, it's better to do it when you're an LPR. That way you also only need to show unrestricted social security card and driver license, instead of green card, extension letters and all of that jazz that confuses many HRs.

Edited April 12, 2023 by OldUser

[Mike E 11,741]

14 minutes ago, usmsbow said:

It seems like a waste of time once you're a citizen

Some naturalized citizens do not want to live in the U.S. while drawing SS pension benefits. It is easiest to be a U.S. citizen in that situation.

[usmsbow 802]

18 minutes ago, OldUser said:

SSA needs to be informed about somebody becoming a US citizen. It saves @mam521 a trip by going to SSA after naturalizing. When getting employed as US citizen, @mam521 will be showing unrestricted social security card and driver's license.

 

My point is, it's better to do it when you're an LPR. That way you also only need to show unrestricted social security card and driver license, instead of green card, extension letters and all of that jazz that confuses many HRs.

 

Yes, I understand why doing it before citizenship. As I said, I see the upside to doing to while having a gc. That being said,I was not aware of SSA needing to be informed. Crazy me assumed US gov't agencies exchanged info, but I should know by now that isn't the case. Way too logical and practical! Good to know, thanks.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Mike E said:

Some naturalized citizens do not want to live in the U.S. while drawing SS pension benefits. It is easiest to be a U.S. citizen in that situation.

 

Good point, thanks.

[Verrou 1,962]

@usmsbow any agencies don’t communicate at all. Some of people’s case stucks when they applied I-485 at the court and case terminated, I-485 never transferred back to USCIS. 
 

same thing like my SSN issue. Hence SSA office can’t update my status when I went there yesterday 

[OldUser 7,034]

40 minutes ago, usmsbow said:

I was not aware of SSA needing to be informed. Crazy me assumed US gov't agencies exchanged info, but I should know by now that isn't the case. Way too logical and practical! Good to know, thanks.

Here's a list of things a new US citizen should know about (these are the most important ones):

 

https://www.uscis.gov/citizenship-resource-center/new-us-citizens

Edited April 12, 2023 by OldUser

[mam521 2,113]

13 hours ago, OldUser said:

My point is, it's better to do it when you're an LPR. That way you also only need to show unrestricted social security card and driver license, instead of green card, extension letters and all of that jazz that confuses many HRs.

Depends on your HR.  Ours participates in E-Verify and preferentially wants to see I-9 A List documents, mostly to ensure the A number provided is correct and because the timeline to submit the I-9 is narrow. Because I provided the List A document, I was not required to show them my physical card for my SSN, but rather just provide the SSN.  The reason I have to provide the SSN is because they participate in E-Verify.  If they are mailing the I-9, as per the I-9 instructions, a SSN is optional. 

 

It's a pick your battle, really.  In Texas, your DL is typically issued for 8 years or the validity of your documents (visa or PR).  If you had a 2yr greencard and received an extension, you're going to have to go and take the extension letter to DPS, possibly get an agent who has no idea, just like HR or the SSA, get them to issue a new license but before they will, they are likely going to send for a SAVE verification which can take a couple of weeks.  It's also going to cost you money every time you need to update that license.  Anyone who lives in the Houston area can probably attest that dealing with DPS can be a real pain and rather demeaning experience.  When I was on my work visa, I was stuck in this loop and without a license for 2 weeks, waiting on the SAVE verification.  No license in a place with no public transit is a REAL headache.  Thankfully, I had a ride to get me to work!

 

My point is sometimes the List B and List C documents can be just as big of a pain in the neck as List A documents.  Pick your poison because it all sucks and dealing with HR, the SSA and DPS/DMV can be about the same level of frustration.  Choose whichever gives you the lesser likelihood of PTSD! 

[Verrou 1,962]

7 minutes ago, mam521 said:

Choose whichever gives you the lesser likelihood of PTSD! 

immigration journey is indeed give u anxiety and PTSD lol. i got used to it and its hard to shake the feeling even after i got 10 years GC in hand

[mam521 2,113]

1 minute ago, Misscloud said:

immigration journey is indeed give u anxiety and PTSD lol. i got used to it and its hard to shake the feeling even after i got 10 years GC in hand

You can say that again!  I don't think it ever goes away.  I told hubs I am looking forward to being able to take apart our immigration flexifolder and properly file our marriage certificate, the naturalization certificates, the birth certificates, etc once we're through it all but I suspect I'll still have troubles because I live in fear that I'll need something or I've forgotten something or...or...or... . 

 

We still have a little ways to go.  After my ceremony, we have to get 3 passports and still file 2 N-600's.  THEN we might be ok?  

 

At least we have this community to support one another because no one understands it until they live it.  

 

Anyway, sending you positive vibes to get through this mess! 

[Mike E 11,741]

5 minutes ago, mam521 said:

Ours participates in E-Verify and preferentially wants to see I-9 A List documents, mostly to ensure the A number provided is correct and because the timeline to submit the I-9 is narrow

This is illegal.  If they deny employment to an LPR who presents just an unrestricted SS card and state ID / DL, they can be sued, and the success rate of these suits is prohibitive. 

 

If the employee caves into pressure and shows an expired gc with an extension letter, then on average, in 2 years the employee is subject to re-verification. If we assume the 96 month letters are not out by then, then the caver needs to get an ADIT. Which is good for just 12 months. So 6 months later, there will be yet another re-verification. And then another one 6 months before the ADIT expires. 

 

2 minutes ago, mam521 said:

We still have a little ways to go.  After my ceremony, we have to get 3 passports and still file 2 N-600's.  THEN we might be ok? 

Not if the employers illegally insist on a list A document. You did not mention applying for passport cards. (A passport card is a convenient list A document which I would gladly show because it is always with me).

 

So that leaves the three of you bringing a list C document: certificate of naturalization / citizenship  or SS card. Note that the I-9 form does not list CofC or CofN, and you have to go hunting to find the USCIS policy that says either are a list C document. 

 

For me, bringing a passport book or naturalization certificate to the office for I-9 is a recipe for disaster. If my passport card is expired, my SS card is coming instead. Not ideal, but I can stash it in my wallet for day.

 

33 minutes ago, mam521 said:

If they are mailing the I-9, as per the I-9 instructions, a SSN is optional. 

An SSN is never optional. If you have an SSN you have to disclose it. An SS card is optional.

[mam521 2,113]

2 minutes ago, Mike E said:

This is illegal.  If they deny employment to an LPR who presents just an unrestricted SS card and state ID / DL, they can be sued, and the success rate of these suits is prohibitive. 

 

If the employee caves into pressure and shows an expired gc with an extension letter, then on average, in 2 years the employee is subject to re-verification. If we assume the 96 month letters are not out by then, then the caver needs to get an ADIT. Which is good for just 12 months. So 6 months later, there will be yet another re-verification. And then another one 6 months before the ADIT expires. 

 

Not if the employers illegally insist on a list A document. You did not mention applying for passport cards. (A passport card is a convenient list A document which I would gladly show because it is always with me).

 

So that leaves the three of you bringing a list C document: certificate of naturalization / citizenship  or SS card. Note that the I-9 form does not list CofC or CofN, and you have to go hunting to find the USCIS policy that says either are a list C document. 

 

For me, bringing a passport book or naturalization certificate to the office for I-9 is a recipe for disaster. If my passport card is expired, my SS card is coming instead. Not ideal, but I can stash it in my wallet for day.

 

An SSN is never optional. If you have an SSN you have to disclose it. An SS card is optional.

I didn't say they insist on it.  I said they PREFER it.  Please stop making assumptions and reading into what I wrote.  They are well aware of the legal implications of what constitutes proof under the I-9 instructions.  

 

As for my comment regarding little ways to go - it's referencing PTSD and how far away we are from completing our immigration journey.  Absolutely NOTHING to do with employment.  

 

SSN for the sole purposes of completing the I-9 is NOT required.  You can review the instructions here:  https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/forms/i-9instr.pdf 

 

An employee who can prove legal status and right to work in the US can begin work before they receive their SSN.  The employer will be responsible for withholding taxes and submitting to the IRS once the SSN is provided, but employment is not contingent on having a SSN in hand.  A List documents meet this requirement and the SSA and IRS have contingencies for the period leading up to a SSN being issued.  https://www.ssa.gov/employer/hiring.htm

[Mike E 11,741]

9 minutes ago, mam521 said:

said they PREFER it.

Which is also illegal, if they express it. Since you are aware they prefer it, they have expressed it.

 

”You must allow employees to choose which document(s) they will present from the Lists of Acceptable Documents”

 

Of course they prefer an expired list A with an extension document.  This keeps the employee in the endless re-verification loop, which is useful if the employer is constantly laying off employees. Knowing that getting ADITs is hard and knowing the WARN Act requires 60 days of severance pay,  they can terminate for cause when the employee does not reverify in time.

 

10 minutes ago, mam521 said:

Please stop making assumptions and reading into what I wrote

I  was unable to interpret this,

1 hour ago, mam521 said:

It's a pick your battle, really

as anything but illegal pressure to provide a list A document.  Whom would one be battling except the employer who prefers a list A?

 

12 minutes ago, mam521 said:

SSN for the sole purposes of completing the I-9 is NOT required

They are required by the IRS.

 

13 minutes ago, mam521 said:

employment is not contingent on having a SSN in hand

Never said otherwise; here it is again:

 

33 minutes ago, Mike E said:

An SSN is never optional. If you have an SSN you have to disclose it.

IRS, ACA law, etc.

[Verrou 1,962]

update : this is getting confusing

 

so on the 4/10 after my visited the SSA office, i checked the SAVE case and it showed 3 case number and all said " RETURN TO AGENCY". the time stamps showed it happened when i was in that office. it never changed. i called the local SSA office 3 days straight to find out more. they all said only the officer who i met that day can help me because he's the one who "hold" it ( whatever that means). i left voice message to him but never got call back, one of the person who answered the call said they will sent email to that guy also no response. and the last person who answered said " come to our office on the 24th ( 14 days after i visit) and bring all documents again"

 

yesterday 4/17 ( it's been 11 BUSINESS DAY since my status has changed ) the officer who's in charge for my case called in the afternoon. he said nothing he can do, still waiting for DHS approval for SAVE check. after i hanged up, i check SAVE case again and 1 of the case number ( total 3 number) changed status FROM " RETURNED TO AGENCY" ON 4/10 to "CASE UNDER REVIEW" on 4/17. i think he must pressed something? because the status never changed until that call he made. do i really have to wait 40 days as shown as the status?

 

GRRRRR....i'm pulling my hair now. 

 

 

 

[ghostinthemachine 76]

On 4/12/2023 at 4:20 AM, mam521 said:

It's a pick your battle, really.  In Texas, your DL is typically issued for 8 years or the validity of your documents (visa or PR).  If you had a 2yr greencard and received an extension, you're going to have to go and take the extension letter to DPS, possibly get an agent who has no idea, just like HR or the SSA, get them to issue a new license but before they will, they are likely going to send for a SAVE verification which can take a couple of weeks.  It's also going to cost you money every time you need to update that license.  Anyone who lives in the Houston area can probably attest that dealing with DPS can be a real pain and rather demeaning experience.  When I was on my work visa, I was stuck in this loop and without a license for 2 weeks, waiting on the SAVE verification.  No license in a place with no public transit is a REAL headache.  Thankfully, I had a ride to get me to work!

 

Slightly OT, but how does this work in Texas - if you're conditional GC is expiring and you've been sent the automatic extension waiting for the ROC to process... do they typically only give you the two years on your new DL (assuming a 24 month extension letter)? Moving next year and trying to plan my moves carefully as this all seems to be a bit old hassle.

 

-----

 

Fwiw, I went to get the restrictions removed on my social just earlier this year after procrastinating a bit and the worst part was showing up an hour before opening times to be within reach of first in line lol. Received my updated social within about a week following my visit.

[mam521 2,113]

8 hours ago, ghostinthemachine said:

Slightly OT, but how does this work in Texas - if you're conditional GC is expiring and you've been sent the automatic extension waiting for the ROC to process... do they typically only give you the two years on your new DL (assuming a 24 month extension letter)? Moving next year and trying to plan my moves carefully as this all seems to be a bit old hassle.

 

-----

 

Fwiw, I went to get the restrictions removed on my social just earlier this year after procrastinating a bit and the worst part was showing up an hour before opening times to be within reach of first in line lol. Received my updated social within about a week following my visit.

I believe so.  They will send a SAVE verification and whatever that states is your lawful presence will be the expiration.  You'll probably get a 48mo extension letter (that's the new favourite vs 24mo), so 4 years.  Pro tip: book an appointment online with DPS.  It makes your life much easier than standing in a long line, especially if you're headed into a DPS Supercenter. 

 

Texas, being a border state with too many people lacking status - I think they just shut it down the best they can with the available resources.  It's a royal pain in the rear, too, because public transit is an anomaly for the most part.  You basically need a DL in TX.